I sure hope not. Batteries are expensive, need replacing and disposal, and most current American cities power grids can't handle hot summers without becoming overloaded, how will they cope with a fleet of electric cars? How long will we have to wait for a full charge? What if we need to go farther, will we have to have two cars? Or will the car be weighed down with an inefficient IC engine? Hybrids are not the answer, they are a temporary fix... I am sure there are better arguments, but what about Hydrogen that can work with current IC engine technology? That is around the corner too. If I had a crystal ball, Hydrogen and solar energy will be the distant future...

P.S. Solar Energy to create the Hydrogen, or recharge the batteries on a fully electric car... :D

 

California hates diesels, pure and simple. They are determined to drive automakers away from compression ignition automobiles to zero emission vehicles through regulation.
New rules require diesels to meet the same Utra Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV) standards as gasoline fueled vehicles. These standards will drop even farther with the rollout of ULEV III and increased SULEV/PZEV requirements (basically require a high number of super low or no emission vehicles in California). The 5 other states that follow California have not yet said they will adopt the strictest of PZEV requirements, but will probably follow the diesel rules.
The problem with diesel is it does produce lower CO2 emissions (better fuel economy) but higher NOx. This requires aftertreatment to meet ULEV and CARB will not allow a vehicle to be operated without functioning aftertreatment. Which means automakers have to develop not only affordable systems, but acceptable methods of monitoring them and a way to disable the vehicle if they are not maintained (which no one wants to do - duh). Plus - have you seen a urea filling station recently?
If oil prices stay high and the government commits to helping develop an infrastructure for (for example) urea refilling stations, then automakers will bring diesels over in a hearbeat. For now, everything is too unstable to take the risk (especially diesel prices).

 

California hates diesles for good reason. I grew up in Los Angeles and can tell you that California air emission laws are not a capricious whim. The smog was miserable before the standards forced technology to deal with it, and people's health was affected. Since then, the number of cars has greatly increased. Without strict emission laws, California would be unlivable. We don't want no stinkin' diesels.

 

I do. I can see the MPG ticking down while waiting at a red light. As far as I know you can configure the system on or off as you want anyway.

 

So turn the engine off, and restart it... Not sure how that is difficult. I do it when I am waiting in a line or traffic...

 

ya there's one in my pants

 

That could be the best line I've seen on this board.

 

In response to earlier posts.... I bought a totaled MINI D for 3,000 euros complete. I am amused at just how ignorant many people in the world are. The simple fact that my location says Europe is really irrevelvant, Im American people the world is much bigger than just N. America and to think in this modern day and age humans dont travel is well....amusing
Anyone who thinks an engine swap is too difficult, or beyond a persons ability is very wrong. I do agree that for a person with no knowledge in automotive engineering or a basic ability to fabricate, or read charts it would be an imposing task.
I guess a better post for everyone would have been what type of seats to get, or what color of floor mats to order.
The purpose of the post was the fact that better options exist in Europe, Wouldnt it be nice if we had the same options. Judging by most of your writings, you are content with what you got, excuse me for expecting, and wanting more.

 

Better how? Particulates are a REAL problem.
NOx is a REAL problem.
MissLindsay is just wrong. 50 State diesels show up shortly. No 2-3 years. Urea doesn't need a filling station, like putting gas in your car, it needs attention on the order of 10k-25k miles (depending on car type and the like). And Urea isn't the only solution. Honda is developing a different aftertreatment system that doesn't use urea.

But Matty125, I guess I'd just ask what's worse... Mislabeling everyone who doesn't agree withyou as content in not wanting more, or being a whiner who hasn't self educated about the real status and prospects for propulsion technologies?

Personally, there is a very, very important part for diesel to play in our future transportation infrastructer, but not in the way most people think....

And on a slightly other topic, you could have the entire auto fleet converted to plug in hybrids TODAY and if they were charged at night, the electrical grid would require NO ADDITIONAL CAPACITY.

Sometimes the internet is nice for groups to form to discuss issues of common interest, but it's also shocking about how much BS just rattles around the "echo chamber" of opinion, never really tied down to any facts....

Matt

 

The federal tax on diesel in the US is higher and due to increasing world-wide demand in diesel, the current price of diesel is higher than gasoline in many states, which makes the use of diesel for passenger vehcles not so convincing for manufacturers to pitch to their customers.

Also, as many people have pointed out in the post, it's not the emissions that's the problem for diesel vehicles, but the particulate emissions. One of the biggest reason for smog was particulate emissions.

Auto manufacturers have been reasearching for an effective way which is also economical to control this. And with the proposed introduction of diesel cars by VW, MB and BMW in the near future, I am pretty sure that we will see more diesel cars on the roads in the next 2 - 5 years.

 

Its the old saying," If the shoe fits, wear it," Thats all. I could care less it anyone agrees with me, As stated, the post was posed in question as to why we cant have this in N. America thats all. Some people explained, while others filled it with nonsense.
Obnxs.....if I truily hurt your feelings or anyone elses for that matter, well Im speechless

 

I'm more just weary... You, and many others, complain that there isn't enough diesel in the US. You ignore the real problems of particulate emissions and smog formation via NOx emissions. You also ignore the fact that Europe has much more government intervention in the transportation fuels market that has take decades of high tax levels on gasoline to create the diesel penetration in Europe. Without the massive taxing of gasoline, diesels use would never have hit the the number they have.

Want diesel in the US? Change fuel tax policy.

Matt

 

If you import something that is not EPA/DOT passable and it not 25 years old or older and you are not an emissions company, then it gets crushed immediately. you do not get to ship it back. it gets crushed and destroyed.

now doing an engine swap would be really nice in a non-emission testing state. just have to order from over the pond most every single part thats different in the D, then put the project up in a garage for a month or so of weekends, then register it around a non-emissions testing state. Sounds easy enough until i think that it means the engine/tranny, mounts, brain, gas system components that are different, and gear linkages that might be different because its a different engine/tranny combination right?. If I had the money and space I would probably do it myself. One of the ideas I had for a while was putting a Honda KEI 660cc minicar engine into a late 90's civic. or a Mazda KEI engine into a '90 Miata. both are available through warehouse exporters for not that much in the long run.

Or, Buy and Import an original late 70's or early 80's mini-1000 for a grand total of $4,000, (mabye less if you shop around enough) including shipping and get 50mpg all day long. (plus you get 30 days of driving it around on its english plates and registration before you have to register it.)

 

The particular place of residence in my State does not do emissions testing. Which has always been nice. Not DEQ check, thats what you all call it right? Also theres NO tax on purchases either. As for the plates, I get to drive around on my NATO plates for 30 days too!!!
The amazing thing about this post is the MINI Diesel does not billow black smoke like the huge Semi's of america, or the poorily tuned GMC products or Powerstrokes, or cummins.

 

Matt

Engines need not billow black smoke for them to be actually emitting particulate matter. As a mechanical engineer, I know for a fact that even almost colorless emissions from an internal combustion engine have pariculate matter.

In most of the instances of black billowing smoke, it's mostly the lubricating oil which enters the combusiton chamber and is burnt. This happens when there is a gap between the piston rings and the cylinder liner, aka worn-down engines not maintained properly.

 

Smoke from burnt lube oil is not black, its bluish tinged and it does not leave black deposits. Blue smoke is from a process called blow by, yes ms engineer you are right about that. The black smoke emitted from diesels IS CARBON, or unburnt fuel as the injectors are dumping more fuel into the combustion center than what the car engine can actually ignite. Carbon is unburnt fuel So if I understand you correctly, Euro diesels put off more harmful particulates than American? MINI D emissions=104 g/km, MINI S=149g/km

 

Particulate filters are easier to engineer and cheaper to implement than NOx aftertreatment. I never said NOx wasn't a problem, just that it was expensive to deal with it at the level that CARB demands. Also, I know there are other ways to deal with NOx (like SUPER expensive catalysts), urea is just the cheapest/easiest and the one garnering the most attention from regulators because it does require refilling. And while it may not require refilling stations, per say, you have to get it from somewhere.

If you're going to call me "just plain wrong" at least spell my name right. And I don't recall spelling out a timeline. I'm sure I'd get fired for revealing that. Though I don't think there's quite the same lineup for diesel Hyundai's.

 

 

Anyone have this month's Automobile mag? I thought there was something in there about a 50 state legal Mini D coming late 2009.

 

There have been rumors for and against the MINI D making an appearance in the states within the 2009 CY. Two people at BOSCH involved directly in the diesel program have told me two completely different things - so, I guess we'll find out when we find out.

 

VW is coming out with their clean diesel car's this year. http://www.vw.com/vwhype/heritage/en/us/#/Today I'm sure Mini can't be too far behind.

 

I based my original answer on pure facts.

OP stated he wanted to import an engine from Europe and have it installed. The engine isn't going to be free and neither is the install. I figured $12,000. for engine and install and that is probably conservative. If you drive a car for 100,000 miles/40 mpg with premium fuel of $4.00/gal cost is $10,000. If you drive the diesel for 100,000 miles/60 mpg at $4.40 gal cost is $7333. Savings is $2670 for 100,000 miles. Therefor break even point is 449,438 miles.

Even if this was legal it doesn't appear to me that it is worth it.

 

Charge at night? Who would do that? And why on earth would anyone turn their A/C down at night while their car is charging... What about all the night shift people...

 

It is a valid point as it is true that the power draw on the grid is much less at night.

 

First is grid capacity, as it's there to use. Sure some places have it hot enough at night to keep running the A/C, but things like vacuum cleaners, washing machines and the like tend not to be run at 3:00 AM. Most businesses are closed as well, and the amount of 24x7 shift work that done is small compared to total electricity usage.

Another incentive to do so is called "time of use" metering, when electricity is cheaper when grid demand is low, and higher when grid demand is high. There are a lot of reasons to drive twards this model. FWIW, when my folks had a EV-1, they had a "time of use" meter for charging the car. It worked out to about 1.8 cents per mile at night, and about 9 cents a mile during peak hours during the day. The math is easy. The real issue on time of use is that a lot of people want to extend the effective all electric range of thier potential plug in hybrid use by plugging in while at work, effectively giving twice the all electric range per day. This WOULD put a load on the grid for sure. Time of use metering would be a dis-incentive for sure.

For the mini, one COULD engineer a 50 state solution, but I don't see it as being worth doing till the next platform comes out, the R60. Otherwise they'd just be putting more engineering dollars into production capacity that's already tapped out. Not very smart, economically.

Matt