The way the current models work is that ASC (current traction control) is controlled by the same button that turns off DSC. So, if you don't have DSC, this button turns ASC off or on. If you have both, the one button turns them both on or off. It would be much better if they were separate, so you could have one on and the other off.

I suspect that the arrangement would be similar for DTC, which is too bad. You would probably want DSC off for AutoX, but want DTC on for better acceleration.

 

I wouldn't want either. When you're mid corner the last thing you want is the DSC to be cutting engine power and braking random wheels for you. In my RX-8 you pressed the traction control button once to turn off only traction control and held it down for 7 seconds to completely disable traction and stability control. If you didn't hold it down it would still intervene in the middle of a run.

We currently run a super stock class mid engine rear wheel drive Lotus Elise that pulls over 1G on Hoosier A6's. If I don't need any electronic aids on that I certainly don't on a 170 hp FWD Mini.

 

Why don't you just buy your car without DSC then, and don't worry about the "stupid optional DTC" in 09.

 

As I understand it all 09's come with DSC standard.

 

True, which is why you should order the 08 without it.

 

just curious.....if you have LSD how would it work/interact with this new DTC system or the current system in the 08s?

 

I think it's too late for that, aren't all dealers now taking 09 orders?

 

I'll bet that when DTC becomes available in December, 2008 that you'll no longer be able to get LSD. That's what they did with the JCW, right?

 

As of yesterday my dealership still has 5 slots open for 08 MCS before they get into their 09 allocations. Century Mini, Greenville SC.

 

Even if DSC can save you in an extreme circumstances, I don't want the government deciding that this be mandatory because it "protects us all."

Government has already gone too far in their quest to protect us from ourselves.

 

As of yesterday, I'm #24 of 40 allocations for an October delivery of a 2009MY. This is at Mini of San Antonio.

Online configurations are only for the 2009 at the moment. I had to add the items separately and will wonder what the heck I get since it is not a December 2008 build with the new traction control system. (But I will have the LSD!)

 

I have a feeling you are correct. DTC is mostly software when they already have the DSC/TC hardware. So they will charge $$$ for something and get rid of an option that requires them to actually purchase from a supplier more hardware. Then the DTC becomes an almost pure profit option other than R&D costs.

 

Hello,

First a thank you to everyone for the great information here. I've spent many hours researching the car, and obsessing over every detail (I'm sure none of you know what that's like =P). The community here is yet another great thing about this car.

I was planning on ordering my Mini early next year, but one of the first options I specced for the car was LSD as I live in snow country (Denver, CO).

So here's the dilemma: order now to get a pre-December build and get LSD, or just order in the spring as planned and get DTC? From what I've gleaned from the Bimmer forums, it'd be a good idea to order early.

Any opinions?

 

I went with the LSD, but that was for reasons unrelated to snow. I'm in Boulder, so I understand your concern about traction. Maybe I'm impatient or overconfident (or both), but I felt pretty comfortable ordering before the DTC was available.

Yeah, I don't think that helped much.

 

Thanks for the response =).

I think I'll buy early. I'd like to at least try autocross at some point, and that makes the decision to order now before LSD goes away easier.

Unless someone comes up with an extremely compelling argument for DTC at least =P.

 

If you're in snow country Denver, then I'd highly suggest that you get DTC. A compelling argument is found in this Fifth Gear segment on winter driving technology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-hHWSQhKuc

Hell, I live in the desert, and I'm holding out for DTC. And, the DTC option gives you an off switch for those times that you don't want it.

 

Hmm. I had watched the episode, and what I gather is that DTC would be used for controlling wheel slip during acceleration by reducing power to wheels that are encountering slip. In the linked 5th gear episode, they demonstrated it by going up a 10% grade of sheet ice. The traction control system that enabled the car to salom around the obstacles is DSC.

The way I understand LSD to work is that if, for example, one wheel was on dry asphalt and the other was on sheet ice, the LSD would momentarily join the two wheels together, allowing the car to maintain traction via the wheel on asphalt. If you were cornering hard and the inside tire lost grip, the LSD would engage and link the two wheels together, increasing usable torque on the outer tire. I understand that this is likely a very very basic explanation =).

I've never had much problem getting forward traction on flat ice (just feather the clutch a bit, or just let it out very slowly without giving the car gas), so if given a choice between DTC or LSD, the choice seems clear.

Is my reasoning flawed? Am I not seeing something, or misunderstanding how something works?

 

I think one flaw may be the assumption that it will be a decision between DTC or LSD... if I remember correctly, this either/or scenario was mere speculation.

Granted, I'm a schmuck who is easily impressed by video demos on TV... so perhaps I'm not the greatest authority on the issue.

 

ASC+T will reduce power to both wheels IF both wheels are spinning. If only one wheel is spinning it can use the brakes to reduce the spin on that wheel only. Thus maintaining engine power on the wheel with traction.

Now I'm not sure if the LSD would come into play before the individual braking that is slipping comes into or vice versa.

DSC is another layer on top of ASC+T that provides yaw control to a certain degree using additional sensors and ASC+T.

The way I see it, ASC+T and DSC are safety items. LSD and DTC are more performance items. DTC actually allows for more wheel spin and more slip angle (not sure if I am using the term correctly) before it will intervene.

 

Very good point. I haven't heard any definite confirmation that LSD will go away as of December. Plus, nothing is stopping us from adding an aftermarket LSD should they discontinue the factory installed version.

I agree, it was an impressive video =).

 

Thanks for the information! I find this stuff fascinating.

 

+1

I am really enjoying this discussion! Thanks for the contributions, everyone.

 

To my knowledge, they do not offer a aftermarket LSD on the newer R56's...as of yet... might be because the demand is not there yet due to the warranty period or the labor involved in cracking open a R56 transmission or waiting for the clutch to crap out to have a reason to get some LSD? I really don't know much about the demand in this market ...but I totally hear you that we are not limited that is of course as long as aftermarket alternatives are available.

Let's hope for those who did not get LSD (usually those who did not special order and instead purchased off the dealer lot) have the option to get it later in the future. You may need to take some "LSD" once you find out a $500 option turns into a $2000+ option down the road....

Oly

 

I agree..the fact that you can turn the system off is the best of both worlds..

 

I'm still confused...what is a concise definition/differentiation of ASC vs DSC vs DCT vs LSD?