R56 Confused about gasoline
4th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 340
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From: Denver, Colorado
My friend just her brand new 08 MCSC and the MA told her that 87 in the summer and 90 or 91 in the winter is fine. So basically the exact same thing as the OP's MA told them. So idk i think its up to the individual when ithink about it yeah its more money... but you get better gas mileage so in the end it all evens out, and you may come out ahead. Just my 2 cents
Yea, what you say is very true. And when I did my test it was actually over several fill-ups. When I first got my car I started using the 87 octane for several fill-ups and wondered why I was getting such lousy mileage. Then I read a similar thread like this and found out I should be using 91 or 93. And as soon as I switched over, my mileage jumped up about 4-5 mpg's. And it has stayed that way ever since. The worst I've gotten is about 24 mpg with low octane town driving, and the best is about 32 mpg with high octane highway driving. And I could probably get even better than the 32 mpg if my foot wasn't on the floor out on the highway!
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Paradise
Just a point of clarification: The octane lavel (87, 91 etc.) is not the same as "tier level." The octane level measures resistance to detonation upon compression while the "top tier" is a certification of sorts for gas that has certain detergent additives. Top Tier gas comes in several octanes.
There have been several reports here of people having problems with the MINIs that was ultimately traced to too high an ethanol content in the gas. One station was supposed to be selling top tier gas. They ended up paying the repair costs for the MINI because the MINI dealer found it had more than 10%.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 5
From: Paradise
The non S MINI has a higher compression ratio than the turbo charged engine of the S. So, ideally they should both have high octane gas.
Coordinator :: Upstate MINIs
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Top Tier gas is also supposed to contain no more than 10% ethanol. Cheaper brands tend to add a little more ethanol because it is an inexpensive way to raise octane. I've been staying with Shell 91 (highest octane I've found in California). There is a BP station across from the local Shell that is a few cents cheaper per gallon. When I tried using it with my 1990 Integra it would stall right after starting. I was told that it was not designed to handle ethanol, and that gas with more than 10% would cause problems with it.
There have been several reports here of people having problems with the MINIs that was ultimately traced to too high an ethanol content in the gas. One station was supposed to be selling top tier gas. They ended up paying the repair costs for the MINI because the MINI dealer found it had more than 10%.
There have been several reports here of people having problems with the MINIs that was ultimately traced to too high an ethanol content in the gas. One station was supposed to be selling top tier gas. They ended up paying the repair costs for the MINI because the MINI dealer found it had more than 10%.
Now if you go out and put E-15 or E-20 in your MINI thinking you'll save a bit of cash and be okay (some states have allowed "blending" pumps, which let you select a blend of gasoline/ethanol), then that's another story.
I know you've had 30 some replies but it's a proven fact that you are suppose to run the lowest octane you can without pinging. The burn rate on regular creates a smoother and more powerful engine than a higher octane gas.
Having said that....with newer cars (especially those running turbos and superchargers) they require higher octane. If you put lower octane in, instead of pinging, your ecm will retard timing, change fuel tables which will result in less power and gas mileage.
Assuming your MA uses a tank a week (guessing to be an average), he's saving less than 3 bucks a week.... 12 bucks a month, 150 bucks a year. That's roughly two tanks a year.... What mileage he loses would probably make up that difference.
Stick with your gut feeling.
Mark
Having said that....with newer cars (especially those running turbos and superchargers) they require higher octane. If you put lower octane in, instead of pinging, your ecm will retard timing, change fuel tables which will result in less power and gas mileage.
Assuming your MA uses a tank a week (guessing to be an average), he's saving less than 3 bucks a week.... 12 bucks a month, 150 bucks a year. That's roughly two tanks a year.... What mileage he loses would probably make up that difference.
Stick with your gut feeling.
Mark
A side story but related....
About 7 years ago, I bought a 600cc Honda sportbike. I'm one of those people that reset their trip odometers EVERY tankful. I'm not sure why but I do... I check my mpg every tankful.... habit I guess.
For the first year, I averaged 140-155 miles per tankful. I put on over 19K miles that year. It never failed, same amount of miles on a tankful.
At some point, I read about lower octane giving better mileage, more power, etc, etc.
Soooo, for the next entire year, I used 87 octane. Within half a tank, I completely felt a smoother throttle, more power and better idle. I couldn't believe it.
For the rest of the year, I checked my mileage every tank. That year I only put on 13K miles.
HOWEVER, I got 170-180 miles from EVERY tank. EVERYTIME... like I said, I couldn't believe it. My bike was smoother, more responsive and got better gas mileage.
The logic was about the burn rate and the amount of power lower octane gas made. Higher octane doesn't make more power, it just helps stop pinging which allows higher compression which in turn, makes more power.
Like I said, newer cars that use small engines like the mini that uses superchargers/turbochargers will require higher octane. You can run low (87) octane but I assure you the computer will adjust to it and you will lose mileage and/or performance.
About 7 years ago, I bought a 600cc Honda sportbike. I'm one of those people that reset their trip odometers EVERY tankful. I'm not sure why but I do... I check my mpg every tankful.... habit I guess.
For the first year, I averaged 140-155 miles per tankful. I put on over 19K miles that year. It never failed, same amount of miles on a tankful.
At some point, I read about lower octane giving better mileage, more power, etc, etc.
Soooo, for the next entire year, I used 87 octane. Within half a tank, I completely felt a smoother throttle, more power and better idle. I couldn't believe it.
For the rest of the year, I checked my mileage every tank. That year I only put on 13K miles.
HOWEVER, I got 170-180 miles from EVERY tank. EVERYTIME... like I said, I couldn't believe it. My bike was smoother, more responsive and got better gas mileage.
The logic was about the burn rate and the amount of power lower octane gas made. Higher octane doesn't make more power, it just helps stop pinging which allows higher compression which in turn, makes more power.
Like I said, newer cars that use small engines like the mini that uses superchargers/turbochargers will require higher octane. You can run low (87) octane but I assure you the computer will adjust to it and you will lose mileage and/or performance.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2008
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Here's your win-win solution.
Find a gas station you like. For me, I choose BP. I've never had any problems with them, even though they're not "top tier".
Once you've found the gas station, apply for their co-branded gas card. BP has a Chase Visa, which gives 5% rebates on all BP purchases, 10% on the first 6 months...
Find a gas station you like. For me, I choose BP. I've never had any problems with them, even though they're not "top tier".
Once you've found the gas station, apply for their co-branded gas card. BP has a Chase Visa, which gives 5% rebates on all BP purchases, 10% on the first 6 months...
hey wbarnhill, can you give me the link to bp chase where i can apply for 5% rebate. cuz i found the brochure said only 2% rebate from gasoline station.
Coordinator :: Upstate MINIs
Joined: Apr 2006
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i second wbarnhill! if you are worried about quality grade of gasoline. the amoco ultimate and bp gasoline with INVIGORATE will also clean your engine.
hey wbarnhill, can you give me the link to bp chase where i can apply for 5% rebate. cuz i found the brochure said only 2% rebate from gasoline station.
hey wbarnhill, can you give me the link to bp chase where i can apply for 5% rebate. cuz i found the brochure said only 2% rebate from gasoline station.
Choose the BP Visa. 5% all the time at BP locations, double that during the first six months. Plus the other rebates... this may be my everyday card since it'll pay for fuel.
You may still need an application from the store because they ask for a "Merchant ID", which is on the paper application. If you don't have time to swing by the store, I can find the one I used at lunch and PM it.If the site comes back and says "Oh, we'll tell you within 30 days", call this number: 1-888-245-0625. It's the number for the credit analyst (reconsideration) dept, which can tell you if you were approved or not, and go through the steps of actually getting you approved if you weren't.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,602
Likes: 107
From: Arizona
Gas is (still) cheap. Use what the manual recommends. I drove all the way from AZ to Monterey and back last week and gas cost me about $200 (34.3mpg), even at CA prices. Cheapest part of the trip.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 73
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http://www.chasecreditcards.com/gas-rewards.asp
Choose the BP Visa. 5% all the time at BP locations, double that during the first six months. Plus the other rebates... this may be my everyday card since it'll pay for fuel. You may still need an application from the store because they ask for a "Merchant ID", which is on the paper application. If you don't have time to swing by the store, I can find the one I used at lunch and PM it.
If the site comes back and says "Oh, we'll tell you within 30 days", call this number: 1-888-245-0625. It's the number for the credit analyst (reconsideration) dept, which can tell you if you were approved or not, and go through the steps of actually getting you approved if you weren't.
Choose the BP Visa. 5% all the time at BP locations, double that during the first six months. Plus the other rebates... this may be my everyday card since it'll pay for fuel.
You may still need an application from the store because they ask for a "Merchant ID", which is on the paper application. If you don't have time to swing by the store, I can find the one I used at lunch and PM it.If the site comes back and says "Oh, we'll tell you within 30 days", call this number: 1-888-245-0625. It's the number for the credit analyst (reconsideration) dept, which can tell you if you were approved or not, and go through the steps of actually getting you approved if you weren't.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 781
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It does get very confusing for a new owner who never had to think about the grade of gasoline before. My past three cars were justaregulars.
It doesn't help when the information coming from the mfg/dealer conflicts with the manual. My MA told me at delivery that MINI has noted that the S cars are burning a bit rich so he said, for every third tank, I should use Regular. I said "Don't you mean mid-grade?" He said, no. Regular. He said it keeps the system cleaner.
On this point, something else: My tailpipe. After the first tank, I noted a lot of black soot on the end pipe. When I washed the car, I scrubbed it off. Now two mid-grade tanks later, there is no black soot there. I know its too early to make a judgment, (and the first tank could have been normal blow-off from a new engine) but it made me think about it. I'm gonna watch and see what happens.
It doesn't help when the information coming from the mfg/dealer conflicts with the manual. My MA told me at delivery that MINI has noted that the S cars are burning a bit rich so he said, for every third tank, I should use Regular. I said "Don't you mean mid-grade?" He said, no. Regular. He said it keeps the system cleaner.
On this point, something else: My tailpipe. After the first tank, I noted a lot of black soot on the end pipe. When I washed the car, I scrubbed it off. Now two mid-grade tanks later, there is no black soot there. I know its too early to make a judgment, (and the first tank could have been normal blow-off from a new engine) but it made me think about it. I'm gonna watch and see what happens.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
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From: Paradise
Thanks.
Coordinator :: Upstate MINIs
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http://www.npnweb.com/uploads/washin.../0207_wash.asp
“It is legal to sell gasoline containing up to 10 percent ethanol for use in any gasoline-fueled vehicle in the United States. Gasoline containing more than 10 percent ethanol may only be sold for use in flexible-fueled vehicles that are certified to meet emission standards on E85, gasoline without ethanol, and any intermediate combination of gasoline and ethanol. Most vehicles are certified to emission standards for gasoline only, and thus are limited to no more than E10.
“You asked if there are any prohibitions under the Clean Air Act. I am not aware of any federal law that prohibits sale of such blends for use in FFVs. However, the use of such blends in gasoline-only vehicles is prohibited under the Clean Air Act. Use of gasoline containing ethanol amounts greater than E10 in a gasoline-only vehicle could cause emissions from the vehicle to increase. Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Clean Air Act (the Act), 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3)(A) prohibits any person from rendering inoperative emission control devices or elements of design. In addition, Section 203(a) prohibits any person from causing a violation of Section 203(a)(3)(A). Mis-fueling a motor vehicle in this manner may violate this provision of the Act. The retailer who has variable ethanol percentage pumps may be liable for causing such violation, whether the mis-fueling occurs at self-serve or full-serve pumps.”
“You asked if there are any prohibitions under the Clean Air Act. I am not aware of any federal law that prohibits sale of such blends for use in FFVs. However, the use of such blends in gasoline-only vehicles is prohibited under the Clean Air Act. Use of gasoline containing ethanol amounts greater than E10 in a gasoline-only vehicle could cause emissions from the vehicle to increase. Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Clean Air Act (the Act), 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3)(A) prohibits any person from rendering inoperative emission control devices or elements of design. In addition, Section 203(a) prohibits any person from causing a violation of Section 203(a)(3)(A). Mis-fueling a motor vehicle in this manner may violate this provision of the Act. The retailer who has variable ethanol percentage pumps may be liable for causing such violation, whether the mis-fueling occurs at self-serve or full-serve pumps.”
I will likely never put anything other than 93 in the tank unless given no choice, why take the risk....
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 336
Likes: 8
From: Falls Church, VA
is 10% ethanol NOT a high quality gas?
Directly from the manual:
Specifically note the section labeled "Required fuel". 91 is not REQUIRED, but it is recommended. The lower fuel will not void your warranty, and may not reduce engine life (per the manual), but you will not get full use out of your MINI's high performance engine. Literally, your mileage may vary.
Specifically note the section labeled "Required fuel". 91 is not REQUIRED, but it is recommended. The lower fuel will not void your warranty, and may not reduce engine life (per the manual), but you will not get full use out of your MINI's high performance engine. Literally, your mileage may vary.
Just filled up my tank at a Sunoco after work. I had recently been wondering if the car required 93 or 91 octane, which I had forgotten since I hadn't checked in a long time, so I checked my manual as I was filling up. I did come upon the aforementioned part in my manual and then kind of got a little confused as I got to the "Use high-quality brands" portion of the manual. Now, I've never put anything less than 91 in my MCS but I did notice that I was pumping 10% ethanol into my car. It's not that I haven't noticed the stickers before but the "Use high-quality brands" got me thinking that I might not be using the high quality gas that they have recommended. The language is kind of hard to understand in the manual, but from what I get out of it is that the blended gas won't void your warranty with your car.
Still it opened up a whole can of worms in my mind. I've never really paid attention to that 10% sticker. I have noticed my MPG's have kind of gone up and down in the past few years, even though I usually put 93 octane in my car and now wonder if its because of the 10%. I guess my main question is whether or not the 10% ethanol is not a 'high quality' gas that the manual recommends I be using. So is it or is it not? Somebody clear this up for me please!
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