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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 02:43 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by kavatski
The number-one exporter of oil to the United States is Canada. But we're in the same boat. 91 octane costs the equivalent of just over $5/gallon here.
I hate to be contrary, but this is incorrect. We import our most oil from OPEC countries (mostly the Middle East), if Canada had that much oil we'd be exerting a hell of a lot of pressure on their government to increase production. The biggest oil fields in the world are located in the Middle East, which is why those countries are so important right now both politically & economically.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 03:13 PM
  #27  
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first the reason gas is going up the way so quickly is the fact oil is priced in dollars. With the interest rates going down institutions are moving their money away from the dollar so it falls. So oil goes up. Now the speculators know this and bid it up even further....

This is why gas in europe hasn't increased in cost like in the US over the past few years...

Now if the Fed would get some stones and raise the rates and stop trying to bail out people who got mortgages they couldn't afford to begin with believe it or not oil would go down.... Simple economics of currency trading and commodities pricing in a target currency.

also FYI Only about $30 bucks right now is for "security concerns"....

Taxes on fuel itself are another story... and while I'm a little hurt at the oil companies for making a ton of money.... They make a % of the cost not a fixed amount so there are times when they don't make a lot compared to prospecting and research costs. They have been doing a % for years. If they did a fixed profit then gas would have been expensive in the 80's and 90's. If you think they made a bunch of money BTW, go look at HP and how much money they made on printer ink... Measured in the tens of billions for ink...

As for the middle east providing our oil, they don't provide much of it, most is from Canada, Mexico and S. America, but it is a world economy with demand that allows shipping of oil from south america to china or india if the middle east doesn't supplu enought and that is why OPEC can effect the price of oil everywhere.
 

Last edited by Corey986; Apr 19, 2008 at 03:18 PM.
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 03:24 PM
  #28  
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http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html

Well, did a little research, and to my surprise Canada is our biggest exporter, my bad. However, Saudi Arabia is #2.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 03:28 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by srmach05
I hate to be contrary, but this is incorrect. We import our most oil from OPEC countries (mostly the Middle East), if Canada had that much oil we'd be exerting a hell of a lot of pressure on their government to increase production.
Actually, kavatski is correct - Canada *is* the biggest source of U.S. oil imports. Here are the complete February 2008 numbers, but the top three (in thousands of barrels of crude oil per day) are:

Canada - 1,888
Saudi Arabia - 1,614
Mexico - 1,231

And those are just the numbers for crude oil. If you count *all* petroleum imports, Canada really runs away with it. The top three for total petroleum imports are:

Canada - 2,419
Saudi Arabia - 1,627
Mexico - 1,324
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 03:55 PM
  #30  
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Gas prices of $4+ a gallon sound so crazy and unrealistic... but it's true! I just filled up on my way home and paid just under $40 (had about 1/4 left). I paid $3.77/gal here in Maryland.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 05:43 PM
  #31  
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I'm just glad my MINI doesn't run on bottle water, or Starbucks coffee.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 05:59 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by snapper
I hate to say it, but I'm glad the price of fuel/gasoline is finally going up here in the US. Not enough people care about the limited resource/environmental arguments - hitting people in the wallet is the only way to change behavior on a mass scale. This will finally force the American 2-3 ton SUV/truck culture to start switching to more fuel efficient vehicles..... like the rest of the world already has 10-20 years ago. The MINI is a mid-sized vehicle in the Europe and Asia. Too bad Detroit didn't see this coming, they will be hurting bad.

There's no doubt that this transition will be painful for us all, but IMHO, it is just a bad tasting medicine that will improve the country's health in the long run.
I'm 100% with ya. SUVs also have a giant carbon footprint, I would not be surprised if they caused a sharp increase in global warming. On top of that, their weight cause more wear on the road surface; I don't remember the freeway having such deep grooves 20 yrs ago. These grooves not only make smaller cars like our MINI hard to track straight (my tires feel like a skateboard zig-zagging thru a half-pipe), which causes premature wear on tires and moveable joints. They also retain water when raining, which causes hydroplaning.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 06:27 PM
  #33  
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I have had a dealer replaced a MINI fuel pump out-of-warranty. ~$1300. I don't have specifics handy, but that included more than 7 hours of labor and an outsourced disposal of a tank of bad fuel (~$200, if memory serves).
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 06:44 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by rippymcs
I'm 100% with ya. SUVs also have a giant carbon footprint, I would not be surprised if they caused a sharp increase in global warming. On top of that, their weight cause more wear on the road surface; I don't remember the freeway having such deep grooves 20 yrs ago. These grooves not only make smaller cars like our MINI hard to track straight (my tires feel like a skateboard zig-zagging thru a half-pipe), which causes premature wear on tires and moveable joints. They also retain water when raining, which causes hydroplaning.

that assumes you believe in global warming and carbon being a problem, me I'm going with the global cooling crowd... I look terrible in a bathing suit so I'm rooting for snow suits and uggs....
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 06:59 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by rippymcs
I'm just glad my MINI doesn't run on bottle water, or Starbucks coffee.
My MINI dosen't run on Starbucks coffee but unfortunately I do.If they weren't on every corner it would be easier.
 

Last edited by Oxybluecoop; Apr 20, 2008 at 02:11 PM.
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 07:10 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by rustyboy155
If you're that worried about an extra 37 lbs in your car go on a diet...

Gas weighs 6.15 lbs a gallon.

I've been paying $4+ a gallon here for almost 2 months now. Gas has been hovering around $3.75 since the beginning of the year. Yay, I love CA!

dont want to become an anorexic.. but thanks. never said i was worried about it either. it was just a statement. and 37 pounds? that isnt much but its a lot more than what people save buying carbon fiber.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 08:24 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ScottRiqui
Actually, kavatski is correct - Canada *is* the biggest source of U.S. oil imports.
Yup, it's a little-known fact. And Mexico is number three, with the US getting almost twice as much crude oil from its closest neighbours than it does from Saudi Arabia. Pull this one out the next time you hear someone complain about how the US is beholden to Middle Eastern oil.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 08:50 PM
  #38  
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Unless you actually run a tank out of gas, there is no technical reason that a fuel pump is more likely to burn up if you are constantly running on a low tank of gas. (Pump cavitation caused by running the tank dry will damage the pump). The archaic reason for not running your tank low was that atmospheric humidity could condense on the exposed sidewalls of the tank . The more the tank wall was left exposed, the more water could settle to the bottom of the tank and eventually get sucked into the fuel lines once the water level exceeded the level of the pick-up tube. Since the modern fuel tank is part of a closed fuel system, it is no longer exposed to atmospheric moisture. Therefore, other than the gas price increases and the increased risk of running out of fuel, there is no reason to keep the tank more full than empty.

BTW, the weight issue is a big performance deal. Racers will acid dip their cars to lose less weight than you can save by running on less than a full tank. Stuff an extra 80 lbs in your back seat when you do a spirited run through the twisties. You'll notice the difference.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 09:50 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Corey986
that assumes you believe in global warming and carbon being a problem, me I'm going with the global cooling crowd... I look terrible in a bathing suit so I'm rooting for snow suits and uggs....
There are two human caused phenomena going on at once. One is the cooling effect of particulate pollution in the atmosphere. The more soot and other particulates we put into the atmophere, the more sunlight is reflected back into space.

The second is the greenhouse effect caused by gasses such as methane and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Like a greenhouse window, solar radiation enters, but does not escape as easily into space.

The scientific evidence for global warming is overwhelming. The planet has been warming significantly for sometime now. The scary part is that if the particulate pollution were removed, the warming would be much more extreme.

We have been taking steps to clean up the particulate pollution for sometime, but are just beginning to look at cleaning up the carbon dioxide, etc. The question is whether we will clean it up in time to avoid catastrophic effects, such as altering the ocean currents (which drive our weather systems), not to mention flooding coastal areas like New York.

With China and India becoming industrial nations, and being reluctant to have their growth limited by ecological concerns, we seem to be looking at considerable increases in both kinds of air pollution in the future. The slowness of the USA to address global warming has given them justification for not addressing it themselves.

There was an estimate that China and India would be increasing the number of cars in the world by 250 million in a fairly short period of time. With little or now pollution regulation in these countries, it is expected that these cars will be about as green as American cars were in the 1950's. Although, the cost of oil could put pressure on them to be more efficient.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 10:40 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Robin Casady
There are two human caused phenomena going on at once. One is the cooling effect of particulate pollution in the atmosphere. The more soot and other particulates we put into the atmophere, the more sunlight is reflected back into space.

The second is the greenhouse effect caused by gasses such as methane and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Like a greenhouse window, solar radiation enters, but does not escape as easily into space.

The scientific evidence for global warming is overwhelming. The planet has been warming significantly for sometime now. The scary part is that if the particulate pollution were removed, the warming would be much more extreme.

We have been taking steps to clean up the particulate pollution for sometime, but are just beginning to look at cleaning up the carbon dioxide, etc. The question is whether we will clean it up in time to avoid catastrophic effects, such as altering the ocean currents (which drive our weather systems), not to mention flooding coastal areas like New York.

With China and India becoming industrial nations, and being reluctant to have their growth limited by ecological concerns, we seem to be looking at considerable increases in both kinds of air pollution in the future. The slowness of the USA to address global warming has given them justification for not addressing it themselves.

There was an estimate that China and India would be increasing the number of cars in the world by 250 million in a fairly short period of time. With little or now pollution regulation in these countries, it is expected that these cars will be about as green as American cars were in the 1950's. Although, the cost of oil could put pressure on them to be more efficient.
Sheesh.... You can't take a joke can you... I did hint with the bathing suit comment that I was dancing on the light side... I guess sarcasim doesn't come across to well over the keyboard....

BTW: My concern with China and India is not contribution to global warming, but the raw polution they are chucking into the atmosphere which will kill people way faster than global warming. I cringe everytime I see pictures in asia of people who have to wear surgical masks because of the pollution. Now that is scary....
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 11:17 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Corey986
Sheesh.... You can't take a joke can you... I did hint with the bathing suit comment that I was dancing on the light side... I guess sarcasim doesn't come across to well over the keyboard....
That's what smilies are for.

There are still folk saying pretty much the same thing in all seriousness.

BTW: My concern with China and India is not contribution to global warming, but the raw polution they are chucking into the atmosphere which will kill people way faster than global warming. I cringe everytime I see pictures in asia of people who have to wear surgical masks because of the pollution. Now that is scary....
You probably don't remember Tokyo in the 1970's. Cops directing traffic had to wear gas masks to survive.

I share your concern, as that stuff can blow across the Pacific and affect air quality here. There is an air-quality monitoring station on a mountain ridge near me that was put there to monitor pollution in China.

Hopefully, the Chinese will be like the Japanese and not let that condition last very long.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 11:27 PM
  #42  
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Speaking of which, where is the global warming Al Gore promised? I'm freezing my butt off here!! It's mid April and we just had another douse of snow here in Seattle.

That was in jest, btw.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2008 | 11:33 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Robin Casady
Hopefully, the Chinese will be like the Japanese and not let that condition last very long.
I think the Chinese government is deliberately not doing anything about polution as means of population control. (think of the one child per family policy they implimented)
 
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Old Apr 20, 2008 | 12:00 AM
  #44  
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Wow! I filled up today and paid $3.37 @ Sam's for 93 and thought I was being raped! The station right outside my office was @ $3.58. I know all about supply and demand and wholesale purchases, but there is a $.21 difference between these two vendors, about 1.5 miles apart!

If we removed the State and Federal taxes, there would be a savings, but wait until there is less gas sold and watch our government jack up the gas taxes to compensate for their loss of revenue!

I've downsized all of my vehicles. I now own 4 Japanese and 2 German vehicles. Detroit, please take note!
 
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Old Apr 20, 2008 | 08:14 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by snapper
I hate to say it, but I'm glad the price of fuel/gasoline is finally going up here in the US. Not enough people care about the limited resource/environmental arguments - hitting people in the wallet is the only way to change behavior on a mass scale. This will finally force the American 2-3 ton SUV/truck culture to start switching to more fuel efficient vehicles..... like the rest of the world already has 10-20 years ago. The MINI is a mid-sized vehicle in the Europe and Asia. Too bad Detroit didn't see this coming, they will be hurting bad.

There's no doubt that this transition will be painful for us all, but IMHO, it is just a bad tasting medicine that will improve the country's health in the long run.
Yeah I'm glad the price of fuel is so high. I love paying a lot more for life's essentials, such as housing, food, clothing, heating my home, electricity, water, etc... and life's pleasures - vacations, car parts, home furnishings, etc... High fuel costs hurts everyone, especially the lower class who have little in the first place. Most of the rest of the world may have smaller cars, but most of the rest of the world (especially Asia, most of Europe) doesn't have any emissions requrements. Their "tiny" cars are spewing out "huge" amounts of pollutants. It's sad when a Toyote in Malasia is polluting more than a Suburban in the US. Fortunately they may catch up in 30 to 40 years.
 

Last edited by Farmer-Ted; Apr 20, 2008 at 08:16 AM.
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Old Apr 20, 2008 | 09:09 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by rippymcs
Speaking of which, where is the global warming Al Gore promised? I'm freezing my butt off here!! It's mid April and we just had another douse of snow here in Seattle.

That was in jest, btw.
Another question that some people ask in all seriousness.

A more accurate term is Climate Change. With a general warming of the planet, weather systems are altered. As a result, some places get colder, some get warmer, some get dryer, some get wetter. Some get colder in the winter and warmer in the summer.
 
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Old Apr 20, 2008 | 10:59 AM
  #47  
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Sad truth is

Originally Posted by Farmer-Ted
Yeah I'm glad the price of fuel is so high. I love paying a lot more for life's essentials, such as housing, food, clothing, heating my home, electricity, water, etc... and life's pleasures - vacations, car parts, home furnishings, etc... High fuel costs hurts everyone, especially the lower class who have little in the first place. Most of the rest of the world may have smaller cars, but most of the rest of the world (especially Asia, most of Europe) doesn't have any emissions requrements. Their "tiny" cars are spewing out "huge" amounts of pollutants. It's sad when a Toyote in Malasia is polluting more than a Suburban in the US. Fortunately they may catch up in 30 to 40 years.
in the current climate of "lassaiz-faire' markets and a pretty much universal tendance for no long term planning, the only way our society responds is when in crisis mode. Sad truth is that the poor are gonna get screwed no matter what, so if the only way for us to change our habits of excess and short term convienience is price shocks, that's the way it's gonna be. Might as well embrase the fact that some good can come out of it.
The alternative is to keep digging the energy use matrix hole deeper for longer, screwing us all much more in the long run.

Matt
 
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Old Apr 20, 2008 | 11:33 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by jggimi
I have had a dealer replaced a MINI fuel pump out-of-warranty. ~$1300. I don't have specifics handy, but that included more than 7 hours of labor and an outsourced disposal of a tank of bad fuel (~$200, if memory serves).
Good God what a blatent RIPOFF for the customer.
 
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Old Apr 20, 2008 | 12:50 PM
  #49  
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Actually, I'm almost afraid to admit that I'm happy gas is going through the roof! I'm hoping against all odds that the high prices will serve to motivate the legions of brain-dead, self-centered, Behemoth-SUV drivers to downsize into something sane. Everyday, during my work commute, I see literally hundreds of land yachts with a single individual inside... usually a rich-looking babe... sometimes with a single baby seat in the mid rear seat.

Oil is a finite resource. We need to start acting like it. I propose that gas prices be based on the MPG rating of the vehicle. Mini's pay less, Gorilla-mobiles pay more based on the EPA estimates on the sticker. This would be SIMPLE to accomplish. Just start putting a chip in the cars and the gas pumps. The pumps recognize the chip in your car and change prices accordingly. Do this and watch SUV's become extinct and gas prices plummet.
 
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Old Apr 20, 2008 | 01:47 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Krieg
I propose that gas prices be based on the MPG rating of the vehicle. Mini's pay less, Gorilla-mobiles pay more based on the EPA estimates on the sticker. This would be SIMPLE to accomplish. Just start putting a chip in the cars and the gas pumps. The pumps recognize the chip in your car and change prices accordingly. Do this and watch SUV's become extinct and gas prices plummet.
I won't go into all the reasons why such a system could never be successfully implemented, but what you're basically talking about is an "irresponsible use" tax, and having a low-MPG vehicle does not necessarily imply irresponsible use.

I have a 1983 Dodge Ram longbed that gets poor gas mileage, but it literally doesn't get used unless it's either leaving the house with a bed full of crap or will be returning with a bed full of crap (or both). As a result, I probably put less than 200 miles per year on it. So although it gets lousy mileage, the actual *quantity* of gas that it consumes in a given year is very low. I don't think it would be fair to lump my truck in with a daily-driven SUV that rarely carries cargo or more than one passenger.
 
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