If there's one thing i've learned about car owners it's that they often have no idea what they're talking about . I heard a 911 Turbo owner tell me the other day that his car was faster around the track than a GT3 (Because it has more power).

Hate to tell you, but there's a reason Porsche themselves market the GT3 as the best handling car in the world, because it is... There's no contest between the GT3 and the 997 Turbo around a track.

It's a work of art...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i89-UkDfC4U

 

Does anyone else remember hearing about how the R56 was going to come with a fancy-schmancy 5-clutch automatic that was going to beat the pants off the DSG? This must've been remarked about a year before the R56 was revealed. I seem to remember it coming from a credible source, too. Otherwise, I wouldn't have paid it any heed.
A quick googling just now found a ZF 6-speed auto with 5 clutch elements for the 7 Series, but that would obviously have been to big for a MINI. Anyone know if anything like that was ever being considered for the R56?

 

Never heard anything about that. To my knowledge the 7 series still has a torque converter, so not sure what 5 "Clutch Elements" you're talking about.

 

HAHA!! This thread is like DejaVu for me. I had an '05 GTO with and LS2 and an auto before my auto MCS and we had this same debate. The GTO with an auto is slightly faster at least to 60 and probably through the quarter.

What the GTO did not have is the option of a sport button and paddle shifting. I fully enjoy having the flexibility of choosing how to shift.

 

Wow this thread went crazy. Its not particularly surprising and auto can beat an manual in a drag race from a stand still, but on a track and definitely for something like autocross its useless. Bringing up efficiency is great and everything but the very nature of the torque converter, "slush box I prefer" allows the engine to move at different speeds from the wheels while in a particular gear. This can be an advantage for a drag race, and helpful for off the line starts on a good automatic. If you have a good launch in an auto it can be effectively making power before it ever starts moving. The whole thing is like a wind up car effect, an automatic transmission may be a bit less efficient, but engery can be stored in the torque converter and gets to the wheels eventually. The major loss with an auto is acceleration response. And with no control of gear selection, I've never seen and auto do well at an autocross.

Btw I have a 6 speed and cant stand to drive autos

 

best response by a manual yet.

Well I have had my question answer the best I think I can, w/o asking the myth busters. So thanks for the specs, science and mechanics lessons, and rants over your favorite way to drive.

As an auto owner, is it wrong to "pretend" to be shopping for a manual JCW just to get a ride out of it?

 

And even more true of us internet forum posters.

My friend doesn't own a turbo, and as a retired USC professor, and currently doing research astronomy, he is a rather careful guy about data. He's also raced the small formula cars at Laguna Seca and Sears Point. So, he is kind of serious about cars. The point of his comment was that it was interesting that the auto was faster than the manual in whichever model he was talking about.

With the MINI, it may not matter whether the manual gets a little more power to the wheels. That may be irrelevant with the stock MINI's ability to get that power from the wheels to the ground, and/or overcome by faster shifting and better launch from the automatic.

Personally, I couldn't care which does the 1/4 mile faster. The manual is more fun. And you can't put a really great shift **** on the automatic.

 

With enough money anything is possible .

 

I'm sure there are people who went in "just to get a ride" and ended up buying.

 

it seems like a lot of people dont understand the difference between DCT and SSG vs slushbox autos.

The are complete different beasts. Its like comparing drum brakes to disc brakes...

 

My MCSa made me comment. My MCSa has a slushbox (poor thing).

Thanks to everyone who tried to answer the question. I attempted to find the gear ratios of the auto vs. the manual and didn't find a site I trusted. Of the sites I did find there is a difference in both first and second gear ratios as well as the rest of the gears but first and second would be important for this test. This may very well be why the auto is a tad faster. It might also be the reason the auto wants to start in second unless you are in "sport" mode.

I've been forced to drive autos ever since a motorbike accident some years back. If I could I would own the manual but I can't so I don't. In saying that, the MCS auto is really excellent. It is the best slushbox auto I've driven. I hope that one day a DSG/SMG like gearbox shows up as an option in the MINI. This would eliminate the terrible slushbox from my car and still allow me to drive it.

Just some comments from those not familiar with the auto on the MCS and why it is such an excellent implementation of an automatic transmission.

* Full time manumatic/tiptronic. You can use the paddles to shift into whatever gear you want no matter where the gear level is set. I use this constantly when changing lanes to get myself out of 6th gear when cruising in D on the highway.
* D/S and Sport mode. This mode actually shifts very similar to the way I'd drive a manual. It even allows the car to go to red line out of each gear if your foot is down. This mode also aggressively down shifts to keep the car above 3000 rpm. It even blips the throttle for you for a very smooth shift. It's impressive coming off the highway at 90+ approaching a 25mph offramp and having the car already in the gear I want when I hit the apex. This is not something you can do smoothly in most autos. Heck, most people I know have issues doing this in a manual. When I want to drive really aggressive I just tap the paddle and I'm down one more gear and spinning a few more rpm; simple.
* You can lock it into tiptronic mode if you want to be completely responsible for what gear you are in. I believe at redline you hit the rev limiter; it does not shift like some other cars.

Does it shift "fast"? No. Not when compared to what the DSG/SMG can do. It does shift plenty fast for me however and I'm thrilled with it.

From being a die hard manual advocate I've learned a very important lesson with autos. In order to get the computer to do what you want you need very good throttle control. I know exactly where my foot has to be to get the car to shift. It's not so much more gas/less gas but actually giving input to a computer to get the computer to shift the car. That part is very different then a manual. In the auto I don't feel "less connected" to the car or less in control without a clutch. What I hate about the auto is stomping on the gas and feeling the slushbox do its thing before locking up and letting the power get to the wheels. <sighs>

 

Good one Lynne! Got me laughin!

 

Thanks for the write up.

 

For me, it boils down to this:

I "DRIVE" my manual cars.

I "POINT" my automatic cars.

 

in extensive testing of the BMW 135i the Steptronic automatic consistently clocked 1/10 of a second slower in 0-60 that the 6 speed, 5.2 to 5.1 seconds, even with the paddles

 

never though my little question about a youtube car review would go for so long... thanks guys.

 

There can really only be 3 reasons: the manual takes more time to shift, or the gear ratios in the auto favor straightline acceleration, or the launch favors the AT. I'm assuming the MT person shifted at the proper rpm to maintain optimum acceleration (if not there are 4 reasons).

 

It is just a theory but I think autos are faster because the manuals have a 3rd pedal.

 

I've owned them both and live close enough to Deal's Gap to go there any time I feel like it.
My quickest runs have been in the AT car.
It's simple personal choice and MT snobbery. Paddle shifting is easier/faster/safer --- can anybody make any sensible or sane argument that it might be safer to remove your hand from the steering wheel of a high-HP front drive car while in mid-turn on a twisty mountain road (or race track)?
C'mon.
When you look in the mirror and are completely honest with yourselves, you drive a MT car because you like it. Same as when you put baseball cards in your bicycle spokes to make motor noises as a child.
It's okay though. We're not making fun of you. Really.

 

Which has the edge in safety depends on the specific situation and skills of the driver. Which is "better" is a matter of opinion. I have had many cars with each kind and I like them both at different times and for different reasons. To me, manual is more fun. I got the Mini for fun. Hence I got the manual. This is not to say auto Mini's aren't fun, just not as fun to me. I don't understand why a fan of one insists everyone else must be a fan, too. I don't lose sleep at night (or any other time, for that matter) because there are people out there not having to shift.

 

But you're not a MT Snob... Some folks are.
I see it alot when I show a non-Mini-owner my car; they say, "oh; an automatic -- why'd you do that?"

 

Wow the first true auto fightback.

 

my reason for going auto on my next vehicle is physical: I have degenerative knee cap condition on my (ski injury as a teen) left knee. Sometimes, the pain of shifting my MCS gets to be unbearable, despite experimenting with different seat-pedal lengths. I have one set length now that seems to lessen the pain; I even instruct the dealer NOT to change it when it goes in for service.

but to me, driving an auto with paddles is every bit as fun, depending on the car. On the 1 and 3 series Bimmers it's a blast.

 

I'm going home to go to bed and cry myself to sleep now, because, thanks to the kind and insightful manual owners here, I have realized that I don't really enjoy driving my car - I mean, it's impossible to enjoy driving an automatic. Thanks for teaching me that. I'll have to start wiping the big poop-eating grin off my face now. I will forevermore drive Blimey with a perma-frown. Maybe even a perma-grimace, as I imagine the joy that could have been, but will never be...



Glad to see that, even though we ALL drive wimpy 4 cylinder clown cars, some folks here still have ********* bigger than their brains.
That's comforting.

As for 0-60 and 1/4 mile drag times, it's all been said - auto gearing, plus more torque available at launch (when done right) = slushbox FTW.

ipeverywhere - GREAT post.

And Arnbut - I agree 100% about the Deal's Gap advantage. Though I know I'll never convince many people of this.

 

You are the 1st auto owner to admit it.