Would the weisel engine be any quieter than the gas engine, which already sounds like an oil burner?

 

Wow, diesel is only about 35-40 cents more than gasoline around here. Even then, my wife's TDI gets 42-44 consistently, my MCS gets 32 on its best days, 30 on most. At that rate, diesel will have to be just about 50% more than gas for the Cooper to catch it on cost. We will probably replace it with another TDI, but if there are Cooper D Clumen over here, we will at least have to drive it before making any decisions.

And yeah, the new TDIs will use a filter that catches and holds the NOx emissions. When the filter is full, it raises the EGT, and burns the filter clean, ready to keep going.

 

Diesel in Europe costs about $9 per gallon. We are still much better off! :p

 

scabpicker, comparing a VW TDI to a MCS is a real apple-to-oranges comparison. I was trying to point out the potential savings between the current Cooper base and current Cooper diesel (Euro spec), as the high cost of diesel negates much of the potential savings since diesel is consistently more expensive then premium gas. There are other cars that can do better, but they're not MINIs.

 

I think the point that's missing is that if Mini thought it would be a huge seller over here they'd bring it over. If the reason they aren't doing it was really part of some big vast "Big Oil" conspiracy then how can the Volkswagen TDI's be explained? Or why isn't GM or Ford selling diesel engines in their sedans and not just their trucks? As big as "Big Oil" is, if Ford or GM felt that selling diesel sedans would drastically increase profits and prevent future layoffs and get them back in the black after 2 years in the red (Ford, don't know how GM's exact profit/loss figures) theyand the UAW union would do everything in their power to convince the government to allow it.
And yes the price of diesel would go up even higher because demand would go up - not because of "Big Oil" but because of the supply and demand principle. The same thing happened in the 70's when gas zoomed up and people started buying diesel cars only to see the price of diesel jump up as well.
Either way, I think this is just an example of how quickly issues that seem relatively simple can become incredibly complex.

 

I would love for the diesel to be offered here. In fact, had the D been available at the time of my purchase, I would have definitely gone for the D rather than the 'vert. Hopefully, the D will make the trip over within the next decade so that this MINI can be replaced with a MINI.

 

There are two principle reasons why more diesels are not sold in the U.S. The first, and most important, is lack of customer demand. The second is the stringent emissions controls needed for diesel engines, which tend to be more polluting than gasoline engines, especially particulate emissions. Only a few manufacturers have cracked the emissions issue, and they are just now introducing models that meet the regulations in all 50 states. As for the price of diesel fuel, who knows what it will be in the future, as there are way too many variables in that equation...

 

I think the biggest reason Americans don't like diesels is because we can't forget the noisy, dirty, smelly cars American automakers came out with during the last gas crisis in the mid to late 70's. I know today's diesels are a far cry but some people just can't forget.

 

miniclubman, I did not really intend to contradict you. I just wanted to illustrate that the math might be different elsewhere. Sorry if I came across otherwise. For a full disclaimer, I also was comparing the price of premium to diesel. Regular has about a 70 cent price difference.

Also, that post reads like I'd replace the MCS with a TDI. I would not even consider it, we'd be replacing the current TDI.

Plus, if you combine the reasons given by yourself and benbiker the you are absolutely correct on the reasons for a dearth of diesel models in the US. Such evil things as that horrible GM diesel that was a 350 with different heads will make all oil burners taste bad to the public. How did the company that founded Detroit Diesel let that get out the door? No conspiracy required, just poorly executed ideas. Combine that low demand with the difficulty of bringing a diesel to the entire market in the US (you could sell my TDI in Tx, but not Ca), and well, you get 25+ years of diesel scarcity.

 

Remember the current European gasoline engines are fundamentally different to the current U.S. gasoline engines with that whole dozing off when idle thing.

The current European justacooper gets 52.3 (43.6 US) mpg combined. The current U.S. model gets over 10mpg less at 38.4 (32 US) combined.

So, before you even consider fuel types, that whole idling system appears to be giving a third better mileage.

Now compare like European (EU MC vs. EU MCD rather than US MC vs EU MCD) 52.3 (43.6 US) vs. 72.4 (60 US) for MC vs MCD and you've got a small enough improvement that 25% more for diesel at the pump pretty much negates any difference.

The European 80.7 MPG under totally optimal conditions sounds great. At the U.S. pump, were the same technologies to be compared, it'd make next to no difference.

 

Sun article states that the latest version of the Mini Copper D with regenerative braking and auto start/stop actually gets 72.4mpg(imperial) which is ~60mpg(US)

In western PA right now that means 7.3c/mile for the diesel and 9c/mile (using the highway numbers) so I think I would agree that a 20% reduction in cost is significant.

Of course this cost benefit will be even higher in the city where the auto start/stop and regenerative braking have a greater impact.

The biggest question however is how bad is diesel going to get - simple supply and demand says that if 10 percent of the cars go to diesel then the cost should increase - who knows. Some auto makers are even wondering if it is still beneficial to bring out a diesel model in the US right now considering the way the saving have been negatively impacted by the fuel cost increase.

 

Guys, a few months ago I spoke to someone at MINI about why they don't bring the Mini Cooper D to the US and was told that there were two reasons:
1) Emissions (I was surprised as I thought that diesel engines were cleaner).
2) They are not sure there'd be much of a market for it in the US. As you may already know Honda, Toyota and most other car manufacturers have diesel versions of a lot of their cars in Europe, but they don't sell them here. Back in the 80s, diesel cars got a bad rap in the US and Americans don't seem to go for them..."too noisy, too smelly, etc".

VW obviously pushed their TDIs on the jetta, beetle and passat, but ultimately sales of the diesels were nowhere near as high as those of gasoline. The same is not true in Europe.

 

This has more to do with how the MPG rating is calculated and measured. The EPA in the US measures differently than the agency in Europe. So a 2008 mini cooper that gets 32mpg combined would have to be compared to the European version using the same EPA rating.

 

Misc statements....

Oil and all it's products are a world market - and will become more scarce.

Diesel, while a pittance in cars, still represents almost 1 out of every 3 drops that make wheels go round in the US. Therefore, a shift in significant sales might increase prices; but the pressure is really coming from global consumption/competition.

The US is actually expected to use LESS fuel this year, a continued trend similar to last year.

Electric cars don't have cool supercharger whine but feature even more torque than a diesel!

 

vw diesels are due here any time now. honda and toy have announced diesels coming in the fall. Mercedes is already here again. Subaru just announced the boxer D will arrive in sept and get 49mpg in the immpreza. Vw could not get enough TDI jettas last year. They sold 2006 new ones in 2997 to get around the new usa standards. If you look used jetta TDI sell for more used then they did new. I had a beetle TDI also was great. nothing like getting 65mpg occasionally and you could use home heating oil which has no road taxes in the price. so i put an oil tank in my garage and had it filled . since i have an electric heat pump i did not use oil for heat . made out like a bandit one tank full of 250 gallons was good for the whole year for me.

 

Mini has stated that it won't bring the Mini D into the U.S. until it is 50 State legal. California is holding up that process. Also, the new diesels need low sulfur diesel fuel, which is only now becoming available in the U.S.

 

Kalifornia... whoda thunk?