Personal preferences are one thing...fine, but if viable, overall improvements have been made to the car (even if those may not please one specific type of enthusiast), then I think one has to come to grips with this and, if our interests are very specific, either move on to something else that is suitable, or find where marque development is evolving more to our liking, like JCW.

btw, I was jest about R53 owners...90% of my MINI buddies own/owned them.

And yes, this should be a dead horse. We've had over a year with R56 and it does not deserve any loathing...quite the opposite.

 

I totally agree, but recently it seems that some of our members have a tendency to show up in a thread, muck it up till it gets locked and then move on to another thread to start up the same debate again. This thread was on the verge of getting buried and now all of a sudden its been thrown off-topic in order to bring up the tirade against the R56 again, not even two days after the other thread got locked in the 1st Gen forums.

 

The other thread got locked down because the topic of discussion was derailed by the seemingly snide personal attacks made against Slag. You may not like or agree what he has to say, but he is entitled to his opinion, the same way you are entitled to yours. I think that if you don't like this type of threads, then you do yourself a big favor by not reading them and posting in them. Not worth getting hypertension over what total strangers behind a computer screen think about your favorite car. If you love your car, then that all that it matters!

 

I had a really long reply all typed out calling you and slag out for your troll + report tag team but I ended up deleting it because I knew you'd just tell me that I personally attacked you and report my post anyway.

Riling people up so they personally attack you should be just as punishable as the personal attack itself. Clearly this is not the case as slag is still a member of this forum. Oh well.

eVal, I don't know if you were following the other 2 threads, but here's the latest one. If you don't feel like reading all of it, don't worry as I'm sure this one will end up just the same.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=125281

 

I guess I am going to stay out of this and become a silent spectator. I think I have said my piece.

 

I understand, I guess the bottom line is the distinction as to whether some agree if there are "overall improvements" or if those are worth compromising on other things for; whether you do have to agree and come to grips with it/have to eventually 'budge', as you said. Ultimately the issue is if you do think there are valid 'Mini benefits' when weighing out things about the car vs other options, or whether you are rationalizing/compromising to stick with the lifestyle (brand, perception and community). There is nothing wrong with that mind you, the determination and opinions about stuff is subjective and only the person can make those choices - as devil's advocate I just have to contest those assumptions

Edit: VicSkimmr, nope I didn't follow those threads - I just jumped in here for the heck of it. Guess I'l leave it at that though, cheers.

 

As usual, gokartride's last 2 posts hit the mark. He's obviously put a lot of thought into them.

And I'll continue to point out that it's not fair to compare the stock, off the-lot R56 to the R53s you've grown to love AND mod, with a lowered body, swaybars, Kumhos or Falkens or whatever (non-runflats, of course), etc. I suspect the R56 will feel a lot better to you with similar options, yet without such a raw ride, ill-fitting seats, etc.

BTW, check out the dimensions of the R56 vs R53. Stock, off-the-lot, both cars are remarkably similar in size.

 

My R53 is 100% stock so it is my Clubman. They are very fun but very different cars, that is for sure.

 

Accepted. But I'll bet you're in the minority on this particular thread.

 

Its good to hear you say that

 

I think this bodes well for Obama. If we can bridge the gap between r53 and r56, there is no limit to what we can do.

 

Ummm, politics. Don't go there.

Already my parents and I have rather different viewpoints! It will be a L-O-N-G summer...

 

The OP made his observations between factory stock automobiles... and his observations are not only valid... they mirror mine and many others experience. The R56 is targeted at a different driving segment... as one poster put it... a more "camry'ish" segment. I happen to agree with the OP... and feel that the original series has greater appeal to a narrower driving enthusiast target segment... YMMV.

 

I agree completely!! It's two sides of a coin, so to speak...R56 "improvements" work for some, and not for others. BMW made a call on this, and I think it was very much justfied based on how I perceive Minis. Other enthusiasts (also attracted by the brand) see this direction as ill-conceived. Really, given the diverse owners the car attracts, I'm not surprised.

I do hope the JWC and aftermarket offerings are sufficient to engage other types of enthusiast than me, just as the JCW and GP did for the first gen car.

 

That's probably true...or a slightly different type of driving enthusiast. I think Mike Cooper himself mentioned that the first gen car was not obsoleted by the second...surely many will agree!!

 

I'm in that minority too.

Dean.

 

BMW after its inception of Chris Bangle, overall has watered down their cars, MINI included. This includes all aspects from aesthetics to performance. As far as I remember BMW's were always agressively shaped (somewhat boxy) and unique (the dual headlights, unmistakeable nose). They were always naturally aspirated and used inline engines. But then they became really curvy and looked a lot like a bad asian car with design cues from Japanese cars. BMW suddenly changes to V-style engines (for some, not all) and turbochargers. To many of those who loved BMW because of its tradition, this was a strange and controversial move, maybe one BMW had to do, that is debateable. Nevertheless, BMW sales have soared ever since the change, so its obvious this trend isn't going to stop. I wouldn't be surprised that if MINI sales keep climbing and governments laws keep getting stricter, that there will be less and less room for enthusiasts, unless BMW and MINI really decide to want to cater only to enthusiasts, which is what the M-division is, what JCW wants to be, and companies like Mitsubishi and Subaru, and all the supercar companies, have been doing for a long time.

 

For me, "improvements" must be something that benefits everyone with no detractors ....not a matter of preference or opinion.

For instance: superior MPG is an improvement.

Less jarring more comfy ride: this is a change.

When I consider the evolution of the R53 to the R56 I see a long list of changes and very few improvements. Actually, for me, the MPG is the sole benefit. Unless, of course, we were to find out the R56 held up better in crashes ...that too would be an improvement. Some will be quick to point out that the R56 is "much" faster, which of course it is not. It is faster, but by so little its almost a moot point. And for me, even if it was truly significantly faster, that would not be a benefit as I'm personally not after speed and the R53 is plenty fast enough.

But all else, the ride, the feel, the look, the control layout, the fob, the speedo ...they are nothing more than changes. There merit as "improvements" can be debated forever ...as we have proved time and time again.

I've tried to like the R56 ...perhaps too hard. The first one I drove we went for a 30+ mile spin. I had one on order, so my MA gave me a long leash. I came back a few days later and drove another for about the same distance. Then, just for giggles, I drove an R53 ...literally around the block. I couldn't believe the difference.

The next day I drove the R56 again and then the R53 ...for me they were (and are) two very different cars with far more differences than similarities. At a quick glance they look pretty much the same, but after that they grow far apart. And some are going to like one more than the other. My bet is more folks will like the R56 ...after all, it was consumer complaints that got rid of the burble and the harsh ride ...two of the facets of the R53 that I find endearing.

So, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But that's okay ...there all MINIs ...its not like we are debating over the evolution of a Saturn.

As you said "It's two sides of a coin, so to speak...R56 "improvements" work for some, and not for others."

You couldn't have been more right.

Dean.

 

Well to have no detractors is a tall order given the diversity of MINI owners, but in the end, once things are all parsed apart, I'm not sure we disagree that much. Since this thread addresses MCS specifically, I'll not go into my personal observations on the benefits since I drive Coopers-only...just to say that the improved mpg (as you stated), the low-rev torque of the Prince engine, the added 6th gear for highway cruising, and a few other items meant big improvements in the Cooper. Even appearance-wise it's more direct, cleaner, more aggressive.....almost more R53-esque!! See? We do agree on some things!!!

 

Anyone read the latest Automobile mag? The comments on the long-term R56 test are painful...

And to the person above (Lauren06) speaking of inline vs. V engines - what are you looking for, an inline 8? I agree with a lot of what you said, but looking at the BMW/Mini lineup, there are mainly inline engines:
Mini - 4 cyl
1 - 6 cyl
3 - 6 cyl NA and TT
5 - 6 cyl NA, TT and V8 or V10
6 - V8 or V10
7 - V8
X5 - 6 cyl or V8
Z - 6 cyl

And all of that is not to mention the euro diesels... So I think BMW has remained pretty loyal to inline engines, although in general, I agree with what you're saying.

I just don't think there has been anything "sudden" about BMW's use of V8s. You have to go back to before 1994 (530i - 3 liter V8) when BMW didn't use a V8 as an option in the 5 series (e28 vs. e34).

Anyhoozle, point taken.

Pick up an Automobile mag if you're pro-R53 and skip to page 120something for the blurbs.

mb

 

S means more.

 

I have seen the light! Today I took my beloved 2005 MCSa in to get a brake light fixed, and they gave me an '08 MCSa as a loaner. The new S rocks. The power feels like it comes on faster, without the dreaded lag. I love the ride hight. Head room and feels bigger and the telescoping steering-wheel makes it really comfortable for my 6'4 frame. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dumping my '05. I still love it, but the r56 is a real step forward, IMHO.
as for the Automobile mag, I think much of the ride roughness can be laid at the feet of the Runflats and 17" rims. I just about busted a tooth every time I took my MINI out on the rutted LA roads until I went with 15" rims and non-runflats. Now she rolls like a dream. (I cary a tire patch kit and have fixed two nails holes so far, it was much quicked than getting new runflat put on, and a lot cheaper)

 

Do you have a link to the article? I looked it up and only saw this review (of an '07, so it's probably outdated):

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...r_S/index.html

 

It wasn't an article, it was just two quotes on the long-term test:

"8304 miles - Executive editor Joe DeMatio runs his christmas-weekend errands: 'The Mini is easy to fit into that last little parking spot at Whole Foods. As for the gigantic center speedo? I forgot it existed, using the column-mounted digital readout instead.'

9194 miles - 'I really want to love this car,' notes production editor Jen Misaros. 'But it has lost some of its charm. It feels contrived, whereas the last-generation Cooper and Cooper S felt genuine.'"

I thought the use of the words "contrived" and "genuine" was a strong way to get the message across. I think the first statement is benign.

mb

 

Oh, I'm not sure it's all that telling. He just seems to be one who has "moved on," so to speak.

One year later, my husband still doesn't know why I wanted a MINI (and wanted one for decades). He says he doesn't like driving it--it's too "twitchy!" This is a guy who's had sports cars for over 40 years, too. He prefers his 5-series, the car I not-so-affectionately call The Barge.

In his defense, I would point out that he's very competitive in autocrosses in my little guy.

I dunno, though. I never had a short list when it came to picking my car after my ol' BMW began to give up the ghost. It was always a MINI--only a MINI.