Actually, I bought a Millenium Tire and Road Hazard plan with my Mini, and the Mini dealer (Princeton Mini) does the rotations about every 9-10k miles. They also give me new tires every 25k under that plan and will replace my rims if they are ever damaged. I'm on target to put 30k miles per year on this car, so I'll be getting a new set of tires every year.

 

Wow that sounds like a lot of work to rotate tires so often. I don't really have space or jack stands to do this. Would a local friendly shop rotate tires for a case of beer or something to that effect?

 

It's usually something like $20, so I bet it would depend on the quality of the beer.

 

I rotate when I have my car at the shop for something, it varies, but probably every 3-7k miles. You shouldn't need to rebalance your wheels unless a weight fell off, and that shouldn't happen if they were attached properly to begin with.

That being said, i've had so many sets of tires on my wheels they get rebalanced all the time. Other than affecting ride comfort by causing weird vibrations, an unbalanced wheel isn't going to do much.

 

Nah, my 911's tires can't be rotated (different sizes front and rear)... And I get to replace the rears every 5K miles or so (ouch!).

btw, it might surprise you to learn that, at least in CA, tire stores are required to mount the new tires at the rear when you only buy two.

 

People, please note that all tire mfgs. are now "suggesting/recommending/requiring" whatever... that if you replace only two tires that they should be put on the rear. Please refer to any of the major mfgs. websites for further wisdom on why it should be done. Yes, it goes against "common logic" but they know a lot more about what works than you or I. As far a rotations go, it is recommended by the tire mfgs. every 5000-7500 miles (generally speaking) for even tread wear. BMW is one of the only mfgs. I can think of that doesn't suggest rotating tires. One reason may be that a lot of Bimmers now have staggered sized tires and can't be rotated. Another may be that they don't care how many miles you get on your tires and that the loads of negative camber you have on your ultimate driving machine will kill the inner edges of the tires before you get to 10k miles anyways so who cares about rotating tires. small rant...sorry.
Pros for rotating tires.
1. Longer treadlife overall for the set of tires.
2. Cuts down on uneven treadwear--front and rear tires wear differently
3. Forces you or whoever rotates your tires to actually ck. them once in
a while ie.. air pressure, tread condition, etc...
4. Tire mfgs. suggest it.
5. It's usually a free svc. at most tire shops (if you bought them there)
p.s. Most people are unaware that the major tire shops GoodYear,
Firestone will rotate tires for free if they're their type of tire.
A bullentin came out from Bridgestone (Firestones' parent co.)
that any new veh. that came w/ Bridgestones from the factory were
to receive free tire rotations as a courtesy, GoodYear had the
same policy when I worked for them.....ck. it out.
Cons for rotating
1. Less time in the shop or in your garage working on your car.
2. The rears will wear forever since they're not on the drive axle, of course
they'll cup horribly and the fronts will get smoked real quick, but why
bother w/ the nuisance of taking it in for a free svc.

My .02

Later

 

Can you explain the theory behind the idea of
putting the best tires on the rear please?

I'm not argueing you it's just that intuitively it
makes no sense.

_________________________
Taking your car for the "free" rotation just gives
meth smoking billybob more opportunity to destroy
something.

If you make the decision to rotate you should learn
to do it yourself in my opinion.

 

Why rotate? This was/is just a way to get all four tires to wear out about the same time.

Wearing out tires is a by-product of having fun. The more fun you are having .... the more tires you need.

I want good tires all the way around!

I do not rotate. I plan on removing and cleaning/waxing the rims at least yearly. It gives me a nice chance to go over all the suspension and lube everything up. I put Hendrix on 4 jack stands using a floor jack and a 3 foot 2x4 under the sill plate. Some day I WILL own a lift!!!

 

I'll try as this is seen as an important safety matter here in the UK.

Loss of control due to worn tyres on the front is seldom fatal as the driver can usually regain control by backing off but often IS when worn tyres on the rear lose grip and cause that end to break away faster than all but the most expert drivers can catch before the car spins off into the countryside.

And that applies just the same if the car is FWD, RWD or 4WD so I'm firmly in the "always have the best tyres on the rear" camp and I hope others will join me!

 

I sorta like it when the rear end breaks free in curves...

 

I just took my car in for alignment, tire rotation and balance. I have 8700 miles on my car, and the front tires were wearing at the edges and the tread was separating (?)..I was quoted $380.00 to get all this done and thought the dealer was crazy..I went to a tire specialist and was quoted $80 for the same to be done, come to find they can't align my wheels because of a special tool that '07 MC's need. WTF! I went back to the dealer and am being charged $230 for 4 wheel alignment and $150 for rotation and balance. According to them, balancing is needed after aligning the wheels...
I'm sure I'm getting ripped off, but want to avoid replacing my tires prematurely. They quote each tire at over $400 a piece! That's a huge chunk of change!
I am not happy about this, and wonder how my alignment could be off so much that my tread is separating and tires are wearing unevenly with less than 9,000 miles. I do take care of my baby! Is there a defect with my car?

-Irritated with dealer prices!!!

 

dipruk nailed it. Understeer (front tires losing grip before the rears in a turn) is easier to cope with for the average driver than oversteer (rear tires losing grip before the fronts in a turn). In an emergency, the average driver lets off of the gas and/or steps on the brake. This is often the right thing to do for understeer but the very worst thing to do for oversteer.

And I think in an emergency we're all average drivers!

 

i think it is also state law in CO that 2 new tires on a FWD car have to go on the rear, because that's where most of the (initial) braking effort occurs, esp on icy and slick road surfaces. I was told this by reps at three different tire shops (Discount, Big O, and a local), but to me it's moot because i always get 4 new ones (and rotate every 5K.)

Now on RWD it does not matter

 

You should be. My MINI dealer charges $130 for a 4-wheel "loaded" alignment (meaning they place dead weight in all the seats, then align), and dont bother the customer with crack-pipe monkey business like rebalancing the tires.

But then my dealer is very fair and doesn't pull weird-*** BS like some do--like sticking customers with the cost of a new dual mass flywheel ($870) on a warranty clutch replacement, then trying to justify this by citing "owner's driving method at fault."

And I dont think it's yr car, run-flats are just crappy tires in general, I only got 16K on mine. Swap 'em out for some conventionals and let the fun (and durability) begin, as well as the lessening the damage to yr wallet!!

BMW = Bring Money With

 

Yep, about every 3-4K miles. Torque the lug bolts too.

 

The tread is separating?? That sounds like a safety issue--have you contacted the manufacturer? Or have I misunderstood you?

 

After reading this thread, I am now leaning towards NOT rotating my tires due to the safety reasons discussed above. How long can I expect my front tires to last without any rotation? They are the stock Dunlop run-flats.

 

I'm really not sure, but that's an idea to contact the manufacturer. Are you referring to Dunlop or Mini? The guy who worked at the wheel shop (not the dealer) told me it was separating when I inquired about alignment. I will definitely ask more questions when I pick my car up tomorrow. From past experience, I believe it separates when the alignment is off.

 

20-25K, depending on how you drive, obviously. After that, you'll be replacing the fronts every 10-15K miles, if you subscribe to the buy-2-new-tires-at-a-time approach. Or you can do as I did and replace the run-flats with slightly longer lasting non-run-flats as you go and extend the subsequent replacement intervals.

 

I think it would be unwise to not rotate your tires unless of course you want to totally wear out the fronts, certainly not a good idea on a front wheel drive car and put new ones on the fronts. Consider this: when you brake you are putting 80% of your stopping power on the front wheels. If you have tires that are close to the end of their useful life you will be cutting back on the ability to stop as quickly as you can with new tires. When you accelerate you need all the grip you can get and worn tires won't grip very well. Additionally, rotating will increase the mileage you get from a set of tires. Just my opinion after driving for 50+ years.

 

911Fan,

What are the pros/cons of having non-run flats.
I've been thinking about switching over as well.
Concerns me a bit that we don't have spare tires.

 

Are you talking about my dilemma in the "weird feeling clutch pedal" thread, or is this a common claim made by dealers?!

 

Not 911Fan, but I switched from the OEM tires (run-flats) to non-RF's so hopefully I can be of some assistance.

Keep in mind my experience in switching from 195/55/16 Continental ContiProContact SSR (Grand Touring All-Season RF's) to 215/45/17 Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S (Ultra High Performance All-Season non-RF) obviously may not be the same as your switching from X run-flat tire to Y non-runflat tire. Most of these seem to be general for pretty much any tire though.

Pros:
Significantly better ride comfort
Lower noise
More grip in all conditions
Better looks (subjective)
Cheaper to replace
They're likely to last me longer than the RF's would have (high tread rating)

Cons:
Slightly less aggressive turn-in (tradeoff for softer sidewalls)
No spare, so if I get a flat it's likely to be a major pain

 

So what is the socket size for the R56 wheel lug nuts? Is it 17 mm? I may be investing in a torque wrench and a socket if I decide to rotate the tires on my own.

 

Just to add a little to what Msteadman has already said, one more pro is that your R56 should feel a lot less squirrely during acceleration because of the improved grip (ie, less so-called torque steer). The major con, of course, is what to do about flats. One can either use a statistical argument for doing nothing (like "when was the last time I had a flat"), get AAA membership, or spend $25 at Walmart putting together an emergency fix it kit (Slime type sealant or tire plugs, 12V compressor, zippered bag).

fwiw, the only flats I've had in the last twenty years or so were in Minis. Once in a runflat and the other in a non-rf. And in both cases, the tires couldn't be repaired because of the locations of the punctures...