Yea, deer never jump out in front of skilled drivers. Nor do other drivers pull out in front of them without looking. And they pay attention to the road 100% of the time, never talking to a passenger, glancing at the instruments...

I agree that an intrusive system with a poor algorithm would be undesirable. Computer system tend to get refined over time. I've not had DSC cause any problems during spirited canyon carving with my 2007 MCS, and reports from others with R56 MCS seem to indicate the same.

Well, I don't fit that profile, and don't appreciate the insult. I understand that you believe very skilled drivers can outperform DSC. I'm not convinced that is true, but even if it is, I suspect 99.9% of MINI owners don't have that skill. Nor are they going to go out and get it. So, I think discouraging potential new MINI buyers from ordering DSC is a disservice to them and those around them.

Well you can't really judge the latest MINI DSC from older BMWs. It may not be anywhere near the same. Try it on an R56 before you completely write it off and discourage others from ordering it.

 

This argument has gone on a bit much. Really people that are saying that the ABS cant do what DSC can do why not just go out in a parking lot induce a slide and see for yourself? Really try that when you say it cant do the same thing because, the modern 4 channel ABS works quite well. I have talked to plenty of fellow car enthusiasts I know and they all have agreed that they can use the ABS to get the car in line just as the stability control would do. Everyone has their own opinion but I personally don't want to take myself out of the equation and would always turn it off if I had it. If you think you cant react better than the computer by all means get it, I don't want to be hit by you.

But who needs it on the MINI anyways. Its got this great safety feature that when its icy out it just stalls and you cant go anywhere

 

 

Not once did I attempt to discourage anybody from ordering DSC. I have simply been expressed my (admittedly minority) opinion on the subject. That's what these forums are for.

 

If that is so perhaps you can explain the wrecks in F-1, NASCAR and other racing venues. Unless they are colliding on purpose I’m guessing they experience a loss of control.

 

Racing is driving at very high speeds on the very edge with no room for error. That's not even close to my definition of "the most skilled driver" on public streets.

 

You’re changing the definition, you didn’t specify driving on public roads, only a high skill level. I assume those who drive competitively at the highest levels are also highly skilled drivers. But they too can have unexpected incidents occur and be forced into situations beyond the limits of any human to react to prevent a collision. Modern automotive technology gives us the benefit of superfast responses to our control inputs. No matter what the technology is, if we’re asleep at the wheel we’re still going to suffer a collision. We still need to make the correct inputs, the technology just improves the response of the vehicle to our inputs.



In an emergency situation we can rapidly get to the edge of the envelope of both the cars ability and our own. Personally, I’ll take every edge I can get.

 

I am still getting DSC. The videos were very convincing. I really did not realize how effective this system is or how well it works (yaw sensor and all) until watching the clips. IMO, $500 is really not much money to spend if it can save me from catastrophic misfortune.

I also do value competitive driving and improving my own skills in the right place and time and would be against the idea of DSC if you could never turn it off.

 

I didn't specify public roads...but in the 82 posts thus far in this thread, racing hasn't been discussed. And there is no racing series that I'm aware of that allows stability control. Not sure how you could misunderstand or think I'm "changing the definition", but whatever...

Highly skilled drivers know better than to throw cars into uncontrollable situations. Does that mean situations don't occur that require evasive action? Of course they will. It's covered in Advanced Driving 101...you should give it a try. It's the average driver that drives too close to the truck loaded with boxes and yanks the wheel when one falls off (the example in the Bosch video), or drives 70mph on an unplowed road (the 5th Gear example) and expects the car to react to abrupt inputs.

Plus, of all cars on the road, the Mini is one of, if not THE easiest to maintain control of. With light weight, low center of gravity, sticky tires, front wheel drive, fantastic steering and brakes, great visibility, etc. it is just not a car that is at high risk of oversteering, and understeer is very easy to overcome, even for a novice driver. If you don't think so, get DSC if it makes you feel more secure.

 

This thread is about whether someone should order DSC.
Discussion of whether it is good for highly skilled drivers is irrelevant to the original question. This is whether the average driver should order it for their MINI.

 

...and if you read my first response, you'll see that I expressed my opinion.
It was you who threw the first punch...

 

Quick question while we are on the topi of DSC or no DSC. I was informed that all MINI's have ESC standard, and DSC is only an extra control aid. I am getting an automatic and am not sure if the added DSC is really necessary, if in fact the MINI does come with ESC standard,

 

You have been misinformed. All Minis have traction control (ASTC) as standard equipment, which is not the same as stability control (BMW/Mini calls it DSC; also commonly known as ESC or electronic stability control).

http://miniusa.com/#/learn/FACTS_FEA...ety_Features-s

 

I was lurking in this thread the other day and viewed the video demonstration of DSC posted by rkw. I am glad I did. I have found that when there is snow, as I am pulling out of my parking lot at work and turning on to the street, I can't get going. In busy traffic this can be difficult to deal with. So I turn off the DSC and pull out no problem. But then I don't think to turn it back on. After watching the video I am careful to always turns it back on again.

Today, I had first hand experienced what I presume was a driver without DSC. I don't really know. Four lanes of traffic and I am sitting in the left lane at a traffic light heading southbound. A little Kia SUV is eastbound and turning left into the northbound lanes. So she will be going right past me as she turns left. Wells the roads are wet and she is going too fast. She is cutting the corner a bit too. She starts to slide and is headed right at me. I am at a stop and nowhere to go and no time to react. Right before she seems destined to slam into me in my MINI her back end goes into a spin and she spins right around me. Her back end going into a spin and essentially takes over and instead of running into me, her back end sliding around keeps her front end from slamming into me. I hope I described this in a way that it can be understood.

The guy in the right lane next to me rolls down his window and tells me I should buy a lottery ticket today. He said it was like watching a movie and was certain I was going to get creamed until the Kia went into a spin.

The lady is very lucky she didn't roll her Kia and it appeared that it almost did. She ended up in the northbound lanes facing southbound and looked like quite an idiot.

So this may be a case of her not having DSC actually saving me. If I understood the video demonstration of DSC correctly, if she had DSC her back end should not have spun around like that. I don't really know enough about it, I am just guessing here. I will let you decide for yourselves and certainly it is an unusual circumstance and not an argument against DSC. Just so happened that way this time.

 

We can only speculate. There was first the slide before the spin. DSC might kick in as the slide begins and allow her to regain some control of the car. Or not.