I am sure that it seems that way to most people. But if a dealer is selling cars for list price, with no added dealer mark-up then they have nothing to pad the price they give you for your trade in. If you really want to know how much your car is worth to a dealer, take it to a bunch of dealers to "sell" it to them, without telling them you are going to buy. The only way the price of your trade-in changes once you have had it appraised at the dealer is when they take profit off the car you are buying and put that money in the price of your trade-in. The dealership's used car buyer will come out, look and probably drive your car and give you a price. Your car is worth the same amount to the dealer regardless if you are buying anything from them or not. In my experience working at a car dealership very seldom did the used car buyer EVER change the value they assigned to a vehicle. It might be changed for one of two reasons. The first is that the deal being worked is very, very close and there is no more profit to give away with the new vehicle and a little more value from the trade-in will clinch the deal. The second is that the used car buyer has made a few phone calls, shopped the car to a few wholesalers and confirmed that they can sell it for a bit more than they had originally thought. In either situation the change in the value is usually not much more than $200-300, rarely adding $500 to the value. No matter the situation, whether the car is retailed on the dealers lot or wholesaled to a used car dealer down the road, the only way that dealers make money is to buy low and sell high. And since the public is much more savy these days and can comparison shop via the internet much easier it is more important for a dealer to "own" the car for the right price.

 

What you have described is the exact process that every car dealer uses. The idea is to get the buyer emotionally attached to a vehicle so they make a decision based upon emotion, not logic. More people paying attention to the buyer makes them feel more important. The dealership I worked at went one step further. Once your trade-in was appraised the dealership had your keys. They didnt come back to the owner until the deal had been worked. I hated that part of my job and it was one of the reasons why stopped working there.

Part of the deliberate process is to give a low trade-in number AND a high payment at the same time, even if the buyer said they wanted a cash price. That is designed to get the buyer to say"What are you nuts? No way I am paying that!" To which the salesman replies, "What would you buy it for?" A low price or high payment is designed to elicit an offer. All dealers try to switch the buyer over to payment negotiations, since there are so many variables you can fool around with. Typically the first "offer" from the dealer will be very high, with a high downpayment and a short loan term. If the buyer reacts to the high loan payment and asks for a specific monthly loan payment then the dealership will extend the length of the loan, lower the rate and increase the downpayment before they give up any profit. The first 4 or 5 offers from the dealer often never reduce the profit the dealer is making while reducing the monthly payment.

Dealerships really have classes and pay big bucks for people to come in and teach their salespeople these techniques.

 

My trade in A6 is a fully loaded 99 with 79K on the clock and there is no loan or money owed on the car. The two MINI dealers said I would be paying sticker for the Cooper S although they would throw in some rubber mats. Fair enough. I told both I may sell my car privately whilst I waited 5 weeks for the S to be built. I first negotiated a price for the new car I was considering purchasing at the Acura, Audi and VW dealers and then asked about trade in value on the A6. I then went back to the MINI dealers and asked about trading in the Audi. Both MINI dealers offered the lowest ($100.00 apart) VW, Audi and Acura all offered $1500.00 (25%) more for the Audi than the best offer from MINI and remember I had purchase prices already agreed so they weren't moving #s around and robbing Peter to pay Paul. So I think I went about the transaction fairly smartly although did not pre-secure financing. FWIW all the dealers were within 2 miles of each other with the exception of 1 of the MINI dealerships, so my biggest frustration was probably the fact that the trade in offered by MINI was so much lower (25%) than the other dealers. I just called around for financing this morning and no bank or credit union can beat the 2.9% I was offered at 2 dealers. I understand VW wants to move more cars and that they are discounting from MSRP which cheapens the resale value but I think a fully loaded GTI or GLI is the way I am likely to go. Particularly when you put the same options on a MINI – the MINI becomes a few grand more expensive than the GTI (and a TSX for that matter). My issue with the TSX was that you had to rev the cr@p out of it to really get it moving whilst the A3, GTI and Cooper S all delivered the power at lower revs. I do love the Cooper S – was born in England and drove around in Mini classics and old school Coopers in the 80s and 90s and said to myself when the new MINIS came out one day I would have one but I don’t think it will be my next car. sorry for the long waffle.

PS ACEKraut11 I love the old TR's (anything before the 7) my dad had a bug eyed Austin Healy Sprite - how he wishes he kept hold of that!

 

A legitimate gripe... but that's just the way MINI/BMW operate. It's rare they budge on price and they don't give much on trades unless your a previous customer and/or trading in another MINI or BMW. BMW is one of the few manufacturers that takes a pretty dim view of having other brand cars on their lots.

MINI Financing (BMW Bank of North America) will match other finance rates offered online, by a bank or by credit union... but not other dealers. Get approved elsewhere and ask them to beat it. They will.

Love it or hate it, these are some of the philosophies that have kept BMW/MINI profits and resale values so high.

 

I traded in a 2001 Jeep GC and they gave me quite a bit less that the trade in price in BB/Edmunds. I took it because I had strongly suspected that some expensive stuff was going to need attending to someday soon. But I'd have sold it myself if I thought it was a good car.

 

wilks,

From my experience you did just fine. While it is a good idea to have your financing in order before you buy the primary reason is so you KNOW how much you can afford and you arent tempted to either fall into the negotiate on monthly payment amounts or buying on payments makes the final price of the sale fuzzy. Sounds like you are financially secure and financing isnt a problem so being pre-approved isnt as important.

If your final decision is based upon that couple grand difference and you can afford the Mini at the higher rate then it may be a better deal to spend a couple grand more on the Mini. If the Mini retains its value much better and you keep the car for 4 or more years then you will make back your couple grand and then some when it is time to sell.

Besides, I bet the other VW owners wont wave to you when they see you on the road!

I like the AH Bug Eye also(Frog Eye for you). I do enjoy the 6 though the MCS sure is fun also.

 

Just wanted to chime in with another vote against Carmax for selling / trading in your car -- you will always get more by selling it yourself. (I'll leave it at that, because otherwise I'll get sucked into my I Hate Carmax rant, and that never ends well for anyone.)

 

well there's only one reason for selling to carmax or dealer trade-in, and that's convenience. quick and clean, done with, don't have to post, show, negotiate yourself. the price for that convenience is the difference in what you get for your used car if you sold it yourself. it's like calling the tow truck when you get a flat; it's convenient but not that much harder to just put on the spare yourself. in some cases tho, the price for that convenience is worthwhile to avoid the headache

sorry you had to pass on the mcs. sounds like the dealer experience left a bad taste in your mouth. but these really are fun cars and dealers are all the same, don't let them ruin your fun

 

In California, you pay the sales tax on the price of the car, not the leftover from the trade-in....
Carmax was 3000 under what the dealer offered, which itself was well under BB trade in but I took it to avoid the hassle and anxiety and time of showing and selling the car...

 

All the discussion of whether or not a given car will be cheaper than the MINI, or whether it has a better reliability record, is immaterial to me. I want a MINI and that's it.... and I'm old enough to use the terms "want" and "need" interchangeably. So it's fair to say I need a MINI....

...and in all the years I've owned cars, none have been as much fun as the MINI. These cars inspire true love....xxxooo

 

They (Mini or BMW) never matched the loan rates from the credit union for either one of us, just fyi.

As for Carmax, we also had them take forever to give us a low offer (after praising the condition and uber low miles of the car of course). Won't take that long drive again thinking it will be anything great.

When it comes to Mini resale I fear some people are in for a surprise; Minis did have unusually high resale prices a couple of years ago but since then many more have hit the market and I've noticed it can take quite a while for some to sell privately and the asking prices drop (while trade in is the usual scenario). In this case I think the dealer Mini prices reflect that so many people want to custom order and are willing to pay full price and does not necessarily reflect on what the resale will be (or what new non custom orders are since, as people have posted, discounts can be had for Minis sitting on the lot). Anyway, buy what you like resale be damned - and if cost is a factor buy used and let the first owner take the big depreciation hit

 

I actually agree with you regarding Mini resale prices coming down. I think they have been unusually high because of supply and demand and I expect they will come down some more. But I still stick with my statement that I think they will have a higher resale value than the average car. I think the appeal factor is high and often people seem to put less miles on their cars on average. Of course there are plenty of exceptions but often you see quite a few Mini's with low mileage and they are often in fantastic shape. Many people are surprised when I tell them my car is an 02 with 45K on it.

 

Here's what I did to get a decent trade in value at a mini dealership:
1: go look at a Z4... don't negotiate price... tell them you need a number on the car.. <a few K back of book isn't bad i.e kbb=20K they offver 17,500> that's actually about right.
2: once you have your number... just say, can you show me a mini... for which they'll most likely hand you over to a seperate salesperson... The dealership already offered you a number on your car... you're done <atleast I was

The thing to remember is most cars have kick backs, money in the trunk ... rebates... incentives... etc... that's why you're not going to get a good trade-in value... the reason I needed bmw to buy the vehicle is I needed part of the upsidedown equity rolled into the loan.... can't do that private party....

And of course Credit Unions are the way to go... I'm 5.29 for 6 yrs with mine...

 

There is a reason why you are called Bandit.

 

This may be part of your problem. Some dealers only want late model, low mileage cars on their used car lot. Anything else gets immediately sold off through other channels so they're only going to offer what they can get through those channels.

 

Well the way I see it is that though the Mini is a economically reasonable car (not a gas guzzler, reasonable base prices) if squeezing the best deal possible is one's goal then it would not be the car to go for. When I was shopping around it was very easy to get Honda, Acura, Toyota, and Nissan to offer me some pretty big discounts off MSRP especially on their more "premium" products (like the Prius or Altima Hybrid). Actually with the Prius one dealer's first offer was $800 over invoice (yes this is the same car people were buying at large premiums after long waits just a couple of years ago).

The Mini is a premium (as a previous poster put it) "boutique" product for people who want a unique and fun driving experience and who can appreciate all of the obsessive attention to detail that has gone into it. I knew when I placed the order for my Mini that I would not be getting a bargain, I was looking for a fun and unique car to drive, something that would not melt away into the generic seas of Altimas and Camrys on the street after the "new" wore off. The Prius probably would have been the most logical and financially responsible choice. With the discount off MSRP as well as the tax breaks and savings in gas I would have saved thousands of dollars but even though I can appreciate it's technical acheivements as an engineer, in the end it is just way too much of a vanilla "people mover," and not the car I was looking for (plus there are just way too many of them here in Orange County).

Of course owning an Audi I'm sure the OP already is aware of this (and you're comparing the Mini to some capable cars), but I would think that if you really want a car like the Mini then you can't go into this comparison shopping between the Mini and Acura's and VW's. The Acura's and VW's will always win as they are more desperate to sell a car.

 

ajabbari, That's an excellent post and describes my reasons for choosing a Mini very well.

 

You really explaine that well.
I hear people calling in on the dave ramsey
show all the time
I owe X thousands on my 2 year old monster truck,
I need to sell, but new ones are now less than
what I owe, what do I do?

etc etc

 

I appreciate no dealer wants a car as old as mine on their lot but my "problem" is that Mini offered $1500 less than audi, vw and acura - after I had first negotiated prices to buy the respective cars....t's the inconcistency- if all the dealers low balled me fair enough - but just the Mini ones did IMO ! There has been some great advice in how to buy a Mini and the benefits of ownership etc..and I am sure if Mini had matched the trade in value I received from other dealers I would have a Cooper S ordered. Bottom line non Mini dealers were prepared to offer 25% more for my audi and that is where I was most disappointed.

 

If you want to buy a car and the price is agreeable, buy it. If the price is more than you want to pay then you have the option of not buying it. The dealer has the same options as you do. If he doesn't want to pay as much for your used car as you want, he doesn't have to buy it. He can buy someone elses trade in, or take no trade in at all. It all comes down to dollars. If the net price is too high for you, walk away, but don't cry about it.

 

Wilks:I just went through this same situation, although, I owed on the car I was trying to trade. The Mini dealer valued my trade (an '05 Jeep Liberty CRD - Diesel) at $11,000 (about $7k - $8k under what some of the books listed it for trade in vaue). I said "thank you very much" and went on my way. I decided that I was going to sell it privately and used eBay to list it. One week later, the Jeep sold for $18,500. Met the people, got the check, went and bought the Mini the same day.My suggestion is that if you are not in a really big rush, try selling the Audi on your own. Give yourself a week or two and you might be surprised...it could sell rather quickly if you market it right. You will come out way ahead that way and you can get the car you really want.Good luck!

 

I hear you and don't want to come across as a cry baby - it's not like I am overly bitter or anything! I was more trying to explain my frustrations and explain an experience and the differences between MINI and other dealers. I spent quite a long tinme "lurking" and researching before I registered and I suspect there are plenty of people who are considering a new MINI that will read this thread and will now have different expectations than I did around financing and trade in values. They will be forewarned and have some good insight and ideas as to how to approach the deal. (credit unions, selling the car privately etc. etc. etc.) So in that regard I think the thread has been worthwhile! I will stop whinging now I promise.

 

Keep in mind I'm actually more of a penny pincher than most.
I also relize there is a lot of principle involved here, in that
you think your trade is worth X, and you are going to get X,
somewhere.

I totally agree with you on both points.

Look at it big picture though.
1. The total amount of the deal changing hands is what, near or
even over $40k (?), figuring the mini cost and your car cost is
what I call the total deal cost, not the final financed cost.
2. How long do you usually keep your new cars? A year?
Two? TEN?
3. How long are you fiancing it for? 4 maybe 5 years?

So....another way to look at it is you are planning to go with
your second or third choice over $1500 that will be spread out
over Y years (?)

As mentioned earlier there are A LOT of reasons you're getting
a better trade in at the VW place (I can't say about Honda
I refused to buy another one so it was out totally).

I will tell you this: if anyone thinks BMWs are expensive to fix
and maintain, TRY A VW! I can imagine ppl at saying
WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS A VW

 

To me, the question isn't who will give me another $1500. It's more like, is it worth driving a car I didn't really want (or, conversely, not driving the one I really did) for a measely $1500? If it's a matter of being able to afford versus not afford the car, that's one thing, but for the principle of it? Life's too short for that.

 

That's what I'm trying to say you just said it shorter ha ha ha

Oh, I meant to say also, I got sidetracked and forgot to finish my sentence
I bet the people in at the Ferrari place say stuff like
WHAT! DO YOU THINK THIS IS A VW??!!???

My personal opinion is that the OP should get pre approved
at the credit union for a decent rate (note, decent will probably
not be 2.99%), try to sell the trade in, and if not, just go
trade in on the mini for what they were offering but maybe as a
compromise "make" them give a couple accessories you might want.

I can say I REALLY like the rubber/winter type floormats they 'gave' me.
I kinda regret I didnt try to work in those driving lights free, or at least
1/2 price.