i read on here that running non synthetic oil dropped the oil temperature quite a bit. as long as its changed every 3000 miles, there isnt a problem using non synthetic oil, right?

 

So, MINI warranties the car for 4 years and covers all preventive maintenance for 3 yrs. You're telling me they would skimp on fairly trivial maintenance just to set themselves up for a major repair on their nickle?

What's wrong with this picture??

 

Better check your warranty first. Using non-synth might void it.

Why would dino-oil run cooler?

 

no clue. just read it. i'll try to find the thread in a bit

 

anyone know if changing oil/filter around 5000 miles at the dealer is part of the warrenty or will they charge $ if the computer detects its not time yet to change.

 

I think I've read it several times on NAM, and have heard about it from BMW owners.

 

i searched for a few minutes but couldn t find where it was said. sorry

 

I think it counts the number of liters of gas the engine uses.

 

Oil analysis shows that most engine wear occurs during the first 2-3K miles after oil change.

 

On the cars that I have worked on in the past it was based on the number of ignition cycles mainly. I believe it also accounted for drive time, but I can't remember for sure. I've never been a big fan of this type of system, but I have not seen it fail so far. Every vehicle I've had in the shop has been fine unless the customer has ignored the warnings and continued to drive.

I am failry certain that the dealership would charge you. I know Volvo does. Their stance is that the vehicle is good to go for a longer period, so why should they pay for something that's not needed? I recommend doing an oil change between services to my turbo customers. Some like to come into the dealership to have it done, others do it at home. The ones that do it at home simply drain the oil and refil it. They check the oil filter but don't replace it unless they think it's needed. Even the ones that bring the oil filters in for me to see haven't needed to be replaced IMO.

So, does anyone know what BMW and MINI consider sludge? Is it a warranty concern? I'm guessing that it would be with the whole factory paid maintenance, but just wanting to be sure.....

 

The minimum requirement for the R56 is SH type which is a synthetic blend with castor. Full synthetic like Castrol Syntec 5w30 is SM type.

 

r56mini, do you want to expand on your one sentence explaining why there would be more wear after an oil change?

 

I just thought he missed typed something. I too would be curious as to the source of this information.

 

You are aware of the oil analysis labs around the world, right? I have been on other forums such as bimmerforums for e46 cars (BMW 3 series cars from 1999-2005?) and someone sent in his engine oil at different miles after a fresh oil change. The analysis data shows what is in the oil - oil additives and foreign materials floating in the oil such as metal particles from engine wear. The analysis lab interpreted that delta(engine wear particles at 2~3K - engine wear particles in fresh oil(0)) > delta (engine wear particles at 8~10K - engine wear particles at 2~3K). That is the hard data which probably goes against everyone's assumption that old oil has less lubricating capability and therefore more wear when oil gets old. Surprising but interesting. With those findings, one can conclude that if you changed oil every 3K miles, you would wear out the engine faster than someone who changed every 8K miles. e46 uses full synthetic oil as well like the MINI.

 

Not sure I understand your point.

 

So, they are taking some measure of wear particles and dividing it by miles driven? You can't be saying there were fewer total particles at 2K than at 8K.

Could the assumptions be missing something? Perhaps they are not properly accounting for particles that were generated in the previous batch of oil, but not removed from the engine by the oil change?

 

1. change oil and drive around.
2. take a sample at every 1000 miles.
3. determine the increase of metal wear particles since the previous sample.
for example, for the sample taken at 4000 miles, figure out how much it has increased since 3000 miles. By doing that, the lab found out that the engine wore out the most around 2000 and 3000 after new oil change.

 

That's really strange, because it would imply that there's something about fresh oil that accelerates engine wear, which is counter-intuitive, to say the least.

Are you sure that they weren't talking about the breakdown in oil viscosity over time? I could understand oil losing more of its viscosity in the first few thousand miles, compared to later in the oil's life.

 

Original information:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Casady
Better check your warranty first. Using non-synth might void it.

The minimum requirement for the R56 is SH type which is a synthetic blend with castor. Full synthetic like Castrol Syntec 5w30 is SM type.

I know Robin stated using non-synth might void it. I was just trying to clarify that you can use oil that is not full synthetic and not void your warranty if you don't trust full synthetic oil.

"Castrol SYNTEC BLEND is engineered with Castrol conventional oil and SYNTEC molecular components."

 

My comment was to someone who wanted to use pure dead dinosaur oil because he had heard it ran cooler.

You hear some strange things on the internet, but then reality is sometimes stranger than fiction. Other times it ain't nearly as interesting.

 

"You are aware of the oil analysis labs around the world, right? I have been on other forums such as bimmerforums for e46 cars (BMW 3 series cars from 1999-2005?) and someone sent in his engine oil at different miles after a fresh oil change. The analysis data shows what is in the oil - oil additives and foreign materials floating in the oil such as metal particles from engine wear. The analysis lab interpreted that delta(engine wear particles at 2~3K - engine wear particles in fresh oil(0)) > delta (engine wear particles at 8~10K - engine wear particles at 2~3K). That is the hard data which probably goes against everyone's assumption that old oil has less lubricating capability and therefore more wear when oil gets old. Surprising but interesting. With those findings, one can conclude that if you changed oil every 3K miles, you would wear out the engine faster than someone who changed every 8K miles. e46 uses full synthetic oil as well like the MINI."

At what point in the engine's life was the oil changed before samples were taken every 1000 miles? If the oil was changed at 1000 miles on a new engine, followed by 1000 mile interval analyses, could the increased delta in the early intervals only be indicative of an engine still being broken in? If the oil was changed at 30,000 miles on a well-broken-in engine, followed by 1000 mile interval analyses showing the increased delta early on, I might then worry why a disparity exists.

It makes no sense why changing oil at any point in an engine's life leads to increased wear.

 

New oil must be all pointy and rough. Needs to be polished by the engine before it is good and smooth.

To believe a finding like r56mini reports, I would need to see a much more scientifically rigourous study.

• There would need to be more than one sample car.
• The oil would need to be checked immediately after an oil change (perhaps 5 min. of engine running to stir it up) to see how much debris remained from previous to the change.
• More than one lab should be used.
• The correlation between particle content and wear would have to be clearly laid out.
• Then, as in the scientific community, it should be subject to peer review where a different group attempts to duplicate the results.

 

If I understand your post, there simply *aren't* any purely conventional oils that meet the minimum requirements for the MINI? That's good to know for warranty-compliance purposes.

 

The problem with this is that it assumes the particles showing up in the new oil are coming from "new" engine wear. It could just as easily (and more likely) be residue mixing with the fresh oil. The detergent additives are supposed to pick up contaminates, after all; and fresh oil with fresh additives are going to be able to pick up contaminates the older "loaded" oil missed.

The lab is showing the increase of contaminates in the oil. If you want to check wear, you need to take the engine apart and mic the bearings, journals, and surfaces.

 

That makes sense. So, it could be that the "study" showed that oil cleans better at 2-3K than it does at 8-10K. I could believe that. Interesting that one can take the same data and interpret it to mean that one should not change their oil at 3K miles; while another interpretation of the same data shows why it would be good to change your oil at 3K miles.

This is kind of situation is why the scientific method goes to such great lengths to sort things out.