R56 LSD Questions (motoring, not tripping) :)
You dont need it...
I think if you're not expecting it when getting on power in mid-corner.. the
torque steer from LSD might do more harm than good...
I dont get how's LSD a safety feature anyways???
For me, when my car gets stuck at the end of the driveway in the snow and can't get into the driveway because the wheel with the least grip is spinning away. That is a safety issue.
Wouldnt snow tires fix that?? You'll need snow tires right? LSD or not?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think ASC applies any kind of braking, unless it's changed from r53 to 56. DSC is intelligent and applies brake pressure to prevent the car from spinning or getting into a rollover situation. ASC just cuts engine power/throttle to stop the wheels from spinning, so you don't get yourself into more trouble when they start gripping, at least that's what it does on my r53. Only takes one tight track turn with RPM's not goin up and you got the pedal on the floor to realize you left the ASC on. I have the LSD on my r53 and I'm happy with it. I haven't driven a mini without it hard enough to notice a difference though, and we don't get much snow here in FL to test out the winter traction.
. The combination of snow tires, lsd, and traction control in a front wheel drive car make winters a non issue.
Why wouldn't ASC substitute for LSD functions in snow? You are basically trying to keep one wheel from spinning. What else does LSD do for you in snow that ASC doesn't?
Last edited by Robin Casady; May 20, 2007 at 01:10 AM.
heres what you can do with a LSD 

you might go to the dealer and try both out. the first car we did drive without the LSD it started to spin the tires on a RH turn from a stoplight.
personally its worth it for the extra 500 bucks. if you decide that you wanted it later on its going to be 3-4 X that much.
tom


you might go to the dealer and try both out. the first car we did drive without the LSD it started to spin the tires on a RH turn from a stoplight.
personally its worth it for the extra 500 bucks. if you decide that you wanted it later on its going to be 3-4 X that much.
tom
.Snow tires and LSD can increase traction, while traction control attempts to make best use of what traction is available. If traction is near zero on ice, then the traction control may make things worse so the manual suggests shutting it off.
LSD is not a safety feature but a performance option. Spinning both driven tires on ice can actually result in that end of the car veering downhill or off the crown of the road (an open differential allows the motionless tire to act as a stabilizing rudder).
The same principle applies to driving on ice. Anything that helps me stay in control is worth the extra bucks for me. I got the LSD and passed on the sun roof since I was trying to stay within a budget. The sun roof didn't make much sense to me since the weather gets so hot here in Fort Worth.
ASC All-Season Traction Control
ASC prevents slip at the drive wheels while starting off and accelerating the vehicle. This system optimized driving stability and traction, especially when driving off, accelerating and cornering, by reducing engine output and, if necessary, braking the front wheels.
ASC encompasses the following functions:
ABS Antilock Brake System
Brake Assist
Hill Start Assist
When the factory friction diff wears out, it just becomes an open differential; no noise, no odd vibrations, nothing to indicate that anything is amiss, except of course that it no longer works
. The reason friction type LSDs are rarely replaced is because most people don't drive hard enough to realize when it's gone dead or even to wear them out.
. The reason friction type LSDs are rarely replaced is because most people don't drive hard enough to realize when it's gone dead or even to wear them out.Again, thanks for the comments. Am hoping someone can comment on durability etc. I will more than likely order it now.
Hey LynnEl, I ahve been trolling in these forums for a long time now and read somewhere that Fizzi just recently arrived. Congrats. Meant to say it earlier but do a lot of reading on this while at work and was unable to respond at the time
Hey LynnEl, I ahve been trolling in these forums for a long time now and read somewhere that Fizzi just recently arrived. Congrats. Meant to say it earlier but do a lot of reading on this while at work and was unable to respond at the time

Not that I am an expert, but this sounds strange to me. I seriously doubt the lsd has that short of a lifespan (50-70k). Seconds, although it may be true, one should never assume that just because it was on the R53, it will be the same on the R56.
My MA also questioned why I'd want to order the LSD since, in his opinion, the DSC was adequate. I grew up driving on black, dirt roads that were extremely challenging after rain. With LSD I would have had traction on both wheels even if one wheel were spinning in mud. Thank goodness I don't have to contend with muddy roads any more, but I do drive on ice a couple of times a year.
The same principle applies to driving on ice. Anything that helps me stay in control is worth the extra bucks for me. I got the LSD and passed on the sun roof since I was trying to stay within a budget. The sun roof didn't make much sense to me since the weather gets so hot here in Fort Worth. 
The same principle applies to driving on ice. Anything that helps me stay in control is worth the extra bucks for me. I got the LSD and passed on the sun roof since I was trying to stay within a budget. The sun roof didn't make much sense to me since the weather gets so hot here in Fort Worth. 
Miata's have had LSD available since about the very beginning.
I don't think I've ever heard of even ONE failure on the Miata forum. Just doesn't happen.
I'm more concerned that DSC/ASC is gonna cancel out the LSD.....
I don't think I've ever heard of even ONE failure on the Miata forum. Just doesn't happen.
I'm more concerned that DSC/ASC is gonna cancel out the LSD.....
Miatas). I remember my friend had to really look for it to find one...
What BFG9000 said is that these LSDs will worn out and become open diffs.
They wont explode or prevent you from getting your grocery or something.
And chances are most people won't even notice them not working the
way they should.
I have a 2000 Miata LS. When I started autocrossing, I found it was difficult to get the rearend out, but after about a half season of owning the car, autocrossing every weekend or every other weekend in different regions, I found I can now kick the tail out easily. I cannot say that I know if it's because the LSD is worn out, or if it's just my learning how to control the car more.
I do know this car is easier to keep in control in a slide than my RX-7 is, which has an open differential, but then, they're completely different suspension setups and the tires on the RX-7 have never been great, so apples-oranges, I think.....
Perhaps I should wait 'till I finish fixing and building the RX-7 to compare....Just needs to run and get a set of wheels and tires, and I'll be happy.
I do know this car is easier to keep in control in a slide than my RX-7 is, which has an open differential, but then, they're completely different suspension setups and the tires on the RX-7 have never been great, so apples-oranges, I think.....
Perhaps I should wait 'till I finish fixing and building the RX-7 to compare....Just needs to run and get a set of wheels and tires, and I'll be happy.
I have a 2000 Miata LS. When I started autocrossing, I found it was difficult to get the rearend out, but after about a half season of owning the car, autocrossing every weekend or every other weekend in different regions, I found I can now kick the tail out easily. I cannot say that I know if it's because the LSD is worn out, or if it's just my learning how to control the car more.
I do know this car is easier to keep in control in a slide than my RX-7 is, which has an open differential, but then, they're completely different suspension setups and the tires on the RX-7 have never been great, so apples-oranges, I think.....
Perhaps I should wait 'till I finish fixing and building the RX-7 to compare....Just needs to run and get a set of wheels and tires, and I'll be happy.
I do know this car is easier to keep in control in a slide than my RX-7 is, which has an open differential, but then, they're completely different suspension setups and the tires on the RX-7 have never been great, so apples-oranges, I think.....
Perhaps I should wait 'till I finish fixing and building the RX-7 to compare....Just needs to run and get a set of wheels and tires, and I'll be happy.
I don't believe that LSD will affect balance of understeer vs. oversteer, except that without it, in tandem with a very powerful motor, you might break one tire loose in mid corner. Miata wouldn't have that kind of problem, and RX7 wouldn't have that kind of torque, unless you're in a sweeper with high revs.
All RWD cars that I've autocrossed have at some time exhibited lift and spin the inside wheel on exit of a tight corner when driving out while that wheel is light. Spectators paying close attention will notice your engine revving faster than it should when that happens and then settle back down (sounds like your clutch is slipping). Once you experience it a couple of times, you'll spot the open diff failing you there, and you'll recognize where LSD could have benefitted you. If you are having trouble inducing oversteer (and thus throttle steer) consider dropping your rear tire pressures , or stiffening the front bar.
I don't believe that LSD will affect balance of understeer vs. oversteer, except that without it, in tandem with a very powerful motor, you might break one tire loose in mid corner. Miata wouldn't have that kind of problem, and RX7 wouldn't have that kind of torque, unless you're in a sweeper with high revs.
I don't believe that LSD will affect balance of understeer vs. oversteer, except that without it, in tandem with a very powerful motor, you might break one tire loose in mid corner. Miata wouldn't have that kind of problem, and RX7 wouldn't have that kind of torque, unless you're in a sweeper with high revs.
LSD or not I will never catch him.
Found some more comments on the LSD from another thread...
Sorta the same way with my Evo with front LSD but probably less dramatic
then Minis...
then Minis...
Wear out?
What's all this talk about the LSD wearing out?
http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/11/...s_limited_slip
See the above page. The LSD is mechanical only, no friction material. Also, Qaiffe's diff is also a torsen design, all mechanical and thus nothing to wear out.
See this from Qaiffe:
BTW, howdy everyone, wifey and I will be ordering an '07 S once we finalize options. Right now we can't decide whether we want the sunroof added to our huge list of options or not.
http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/11/...s_limited_slip
See the above page. The LSD is mechanical only, no friction material. Also, Qaiffe's diff is also a torsen design, all mechanical and thus nothing to wear out.
See this from Qaiffe:
Why do you need Limited Slip (LSD) when you have DSC in you MINI Cooper?? This is because the DSC is designed for 'safety' at the limits while the LSD is designed for improved performance. When the MINI Cooper DSC detects traction loss at a wheel, the system scrubs energy (applies the brakes) to restore traction at that wheel. In comparison, when a Quaife LSD detects traction loss, it transfers the energy from the wheel losing traction to the wheel with traction, to continue controlled motion of your MINI Cooper. The difference is the 'transfer' of energy instead of 'scrubbing' energy. For high performance driving, Quaife LSD is the answer. The Quaife Differential powers both drive wheels under nearly all conditions, instead of just one. With an ordinary open differential, standard on most cars, a lot of precious power is wasted during wheelspin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip (along the path of least resistance). The Quaife, however, does just the opposite. It senses which wheel has the better grip, and biases the power to that wheel. It does this smoothly and constantly, and without ever completely removing power from the other wheel.
In drag-race style, straight-line acceleration runs, this results in a close to ideal 50/50 power split to both drive wheels, resulting in essentially twice the grip of an ordinary differential (they don't call open diffs "peglegs" for nothing).
In cornering, while accelerating out of a turn, the Quaife biases power to the outside wheel, reducing inside-wheel spin. This allows the driver to begin accelerating earlier, exiting the corner at a higher speed.
The Quaife also controls loss of traction when the front wheels are on slippery surfaces such as ice and snow or mud, providing the appropriate biased traction needed to overcome these adverse conditions. The Quaife Differential provides constant and infinitely variable drive. Power is transferred automatically without the use of normal friction pads or plates seen in other limited-slip designs.
The Quaife's unique design offers maximum traction, improves handling and steering, and puts the power where it is needed most. A definite advantage whether on the track or on the street.
The Quaife is extremely strong and durable and since the Quaife is gear operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly replacement
The Quaife is great for street driving or racing. Racers don't have to put up with locking mechanisms or spools that tear the steering wheel out of their hands when cornering. Because it behaves like an open differential during ordinary driving, street drivers will have trouble telling it's there until pushing the car's limits.
The Quaife has been proven in everything from SCCA Rally to Formula 1. It provides autocrossers with such an advantage, it has become "required" equipment for a winning effort.
As for performance versus safety, it does both. For those saying to just get snow tires, which would you rather have, power applied to only one snow tire or to two?In drag-race style, straight-line acceleration runs, this results in a close to ideal 50/50 power split to both drive wheels, resulting in essentially twice the grip of an ordinary differential (they don't call open diffs "peglegs" for nothing).
In cornering, while accelerating out of a turn, the Quaife biases power to the outside wheel, reducing inside-wheel spin. This allows the driver to begin accelerating earlier, exiting the corner at a higher speed.
The Quaife also controls loss of traction when the front wheels are on slippery surfaces such as ice and snow or mud, providing the appropriate biased traction needed to overcome these adverse conditions. The Quaife Differential provides constant and infinitely variable drive. Power is transferred automatically without the use of normal friction pads or plates seen in other limited-slip designs.
The Quaife's unique design offers maximum traction, improves handling and steering, and puts the power where it is needed most. A definite advantage whether on the track or on the street.
The Quaife is extremely strong and durable and since the Quaife is gear operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly replacement
The Quaife is great for street driving or racing. Racers don't have to put up with locking mechanisms or spools that tear the steering wheel out of their hands when cornering. Because it behaves like an open differential during ordinary driving, street drivers will have trouble telling it's there until pushing the car's limits.
The Quaife has been proven in everything from SCCA Rally to Formula 1. It provides autocrossers with such an advantage, it has become "required" equipment for a winning effort.
BTW, howdy everyone, wifey and I will be ordering an '07 S once we finalize options. Right now we can't decide whether we want the sunroof added to our huge list of options or not.



