I guess I am surprised that people think 'their' MA should be a cool person and such. They are just salesmen. Just because you're buying this cute little car doesn't mean the MA is going to be 'next door neighbor' nice.

We have been lucky in all the cars we have bought. 2 good salesmen in 35 years and more than 20 car purchases. The Mini MA was one of those 2, but, I think we were just lucky. The other two MA's at the dealer did not impress me and one I was happy not to deal with as he seemed as 'slick' as any other car salesman.

You should remember that the salesman isn't really the person who controls the deal. It is the finance person. Everything that is really going to happen is in that little room when you're signing papers. Nothing the salesman says really makes any difference at all in the end. If it isn't in writing it probably won't happen. It is at this point that you either accept what is there or walk away. If the car isn't what you want, then walk out.

You can order your car from the internet and minimize contact with the salesman. Go do a build on line (or choose a car from their inventory). Then call the dealer and tell them what you want. That's all it takes. When it arrives shake hands with the MA (salesman) and go to the finance guy. You can do that with almost any dealer these days. My family has done that several times with other vehicles as well.

Should also keep in mind that these are lower end cars. They may be made under the eye of BMW, but, they aren't a 500 series sport sedan. For the same money I can get a turbo equipped Subaru that will probably be better made. Or a Mazda Miata or Pontiac Solstice, etc. A little more and I can have another WRX. You are buying a "cute" car that handles fairly well. Not a precision sports car.

charlie

 

I agree. Perhaps the collective experience of enthusiasts with tracking vehicles has given a false sense that this is the MA's job when it, in fact, is not. Yes, they have certain info at certain points, but there is alot they don't know because that isn't in their system. Some facets of the sale are within their purvue...many aren't. Let's dial-back our expectations to something a bit more realistic, remembering that we ourselves may have inadvertently become one source of these artificially-raised expectations.

 

True, I'm not looking for a friend. But I do think that we have the right to expect basic competence and decency. In my case, my MA lacked both. He screwed up my order in several ways and once the car arrived failed to respond to my repeated requests that he get the title person to push the paperwork through before my temp tags expired. Basically he was an order-taker (and a bad one at that).

Oh, and I can tell you that at least that dealership does (or did) give its MAs commissions. When I first went to the dealership someone handed my MA a check and he got all upset that it was his expense reimbursement and not his commission check. Nice way to make a first impression...

 

In my case, I expected some level of service and I really don't think that is too much to ask. BUT, in retrospect maybe I shouldn't have expected anything. Consider this:

- Our "local" dealership is just outside of Denver. The next closest is 450 miles away. Lack of competition doesn't make for a lot of incentive.
- No negotiation on price.
- Local dealership is very proud to tell everyone that their sales people are 100% salaried - no commissions.

So, what part of this equation makes you think that the sales people have any incentive to go above and beyond? Sure they are nice people and appear to know their product, but what (other than personal traits) would drive them to do anything more than the minimum required? Are most buyers going to go somewhere else? No. Is someone else going to undercut them on price? No. Do they make any more $$ if they sell more cars? No (especially since they already sell everything they are allotted).

 

This appears to be the case especially as far as the BMW staff are concerned. The Mini dealer here used to be housed in with BMW. When I first went to look at a Clubman I was pounced upon by a BMW salesman. When I inquired about the Minis he looked down his nose and replied "Oh, the tin cans are upstairs." What a tool!

 

Yeah...me too. Unrealistic I suppose, but it would be as effective to just order it online (yourself) and take delivery at the dealership. Eliminate the MA all together. On second thought that's not too unrealistic. Right now, the way Mini seems to looks at it is that the MA is there to answer a few questions and give you a test drive...that's it. Not much "selling" involved and worth $50 bucks I guess/maybe.

I suspect that most Mini buyers are already "sold" when they walk in the front doors of the dealership. So it's mostly a matter of "order taking" rather than sales....so why even get a so-called professional sales person involved?.

 

So, you've never met a car salesman before? Competence and decency is something rare in car salesmen. I have only met one who was both competent and decent. One other was decent. I got tired over the years telling salesmen about the car they were trying to sell me. One I made get under the car to show him it had a solid axle instead of independent suspension (his claim). Just because Mini thinks it is cute to label their salesmen MA's doesn't mean they aren't just run of the mill salesmen.

The discussions in the showroom between the MA's when we were waiting for our car concerned when the next one of them would be 'selected' to move up to be a BMW salesman. So, what 'we' get as an MA is one step below a 'normal' car salesman.

 

Your "Lucky" I met two that had both those requirements.

Actually my MA was great, I know that is unusual and that is probably why he did not get selected to be the new Head Honcho.

When i bought my truck back in 1999 the sales "Lady" had no clue about the truck but at least she admitted it. She did keep me up to date and learned all she could during the time the truck was on order so that when it arrived she could sound competent.

 

Wow, I must have been born under a lucky star because our MINI dealership MINI of Fairfield County in Stamford, CT, is great. I know this is a "NOT Like Fest", and I believe everyone's stories, but I'm just amazed.

My dealership is privately owned and the family that owns and runs it also owns a BMW dealership in Darien, CT...however, their MINI dealership is separate. I believe having a separate location for the MINIs is a huge plus.

Also as for MINIs being low end... I guess it all depends what one thinks of as low end. I know many (not me) who are paying into the 40k mark...and, of course, we can get into GP talk, JCW with all the extras, etc.

Most likely, these dealerships are just like any other company - the tone is set at the top and is carried down through the ranks.

I also have to say that in my own experience my salesman had a ton to do with a deal that they gave me when I traded in my 08 MCCa for the 09. So not all dealerships are created equal, clearly. And, yes, he's a nice guy and very polite. The other MAs there are also very good and they work very well as a team.
I feel badly for you all and hope you let MINI USA know about your experiences.

 

I actually wrote a long dissertation on the concept of a free market and how MINI is manipulating the model, but I figured nobody really cares.

Our problem is not really with the "Motoring Advisor" that either doesn't know or doesn't care about service. Our problem is with the dealership that hires and tolerates inadequate salespeople either through ignorance or indifference. MOST IMPORTANTLY ..... Our solution is NOT to reduce our expectations to match their performance!!!! Tolerating mediocrity, deception, and poor performance because they are after all "car salespeople" is what gets consumers into this mess in the first place. It is also grossly unfair to those that actually DO take pride in providing a good service. We need to be able to fix the problem, or understand that it is us that has unreasonable expectations, and why. Normally, I would say there are no victims, just those unwilling to be part of the solution. In this case, that is an incorrect statement. But that brings back the whole "Free Market" thing.

Personally, I don't think expecting personal service from a "Motoring Advisor" is unreasonable at all. I believe they intentionally set that expectation, and all to often fail to live up to it. Dealerships are selling these cars at full retail, and decent service should be an acceptable part of their overhead expenses. If I was beating them up to take part of their profit, I would be a lot more tolerant. I have no problem with a dealer making a fair profit, but in return for my consideration for their needs, I expect their consideration for mine. We call that good service. How many of us are good tippers in restaurants when we get good service? Do we also reduce the tip when the service is bad? Why should car dealerships be any different?

All I can say is THANKS to the existing user community (YOU GUYS) that are willing to share your experience and knowledge to fill the void of information. I am sure MINI, MINIUSA, and the dealer/franchisees appreciate your help as well. Maybe not, but I actually believe they have come to depend on it!

(Actually turned into a bit of a dissertation after all, huh?)

 

Well said.

 

I've had a very poor MA here in PDX who can't seem to remember information that he has given incorrectly to me prior to my final build and car has arrived incorrect.Needed to talk to the manager to start the correction process and have not received a time frame from MA,items on back order.With todays economy I would not be surprised if sales are slowing and dealer attitudes may change soon.I would like to know if you all have noticed mini dealers slowing down in your areas.

 

But, it is the free market. You can go buy a car from someone else, buy a used Mini, or travel a long distance to buy it from another dealer. It is the free market at work. As long as the demand is there they can do what they want. Heck, some people will take torture just to be able to buy a Mini. Excellent marketing by corporate BMW.

Same problem we've had all over in all areas. People 'flush' with money will buy a lot of stuff. As demand goes up, then almost anyone can make a buck. When demand drops, the good (or cheap) ones survive.

Then there are the customers who will go ten miles out of their way to save $1 on a product. Or go to a discount warehouse (or internet) to save 5%, then complain because the service dept down the street goes out of business.

It really is too bad the car industry doesn't sell it's products the way most other industries do. Post the price on the front window. No haggle, just sell it. Saturn did well that way in the beginning. Don't know if they still do. We had a Chrysler dealer who did that and did a steady business for 40 years. Nicest place to buy a car I'd ever been to. Also had the best service department I've been to.

charlie

 

But that is what my dealership does. I'm beginning to think things are different in the northeast.

 

And without the commission. Fifty dollar urban legend notwithstanding.

 

Be prepared to be more amazed. I started this thread because of my current ongoing experience with the same dealership you mention above.



I don't know if it's free market, lack of dealership competition, too high expectations, people's complacency with mediocrity, or just the luck of the MA draw.

Probably a combo of all that.

I was just jealous of the great stories I’ve read others tell. I’m happy for all that have, had, and will have the best experience ever.

I’m looking forward to receiving my mini some time in the next week or two. (just landed on our shores today and the day after I drive off, I’ll be forgetting all about that MA

And when people ask about the whole experience, I’ll be pointing them to Hartford and N.A.M. !

 

Yes, it is a free market in action! It is however, skewed by MINIs effort to minimize competition by limiting the dealership/franchise organization. Minimizing this competition is great for the dealers, but it sux for the rest of us! Also, the fact that it remains a free market does NOT make it OK for the dealers to take advantage of this skewed position to maximize their profits at the expense of customer service. The fact that so may MINI dealers do, only speaks to the consistency of the lack of consideration of their customers, as well as (hopefully) their short sightedness across the entire dealer/franchise organization. A sad note indeed.

We can't just accept negative behavior, and expect karma to make it even out later. All I am suggesting is that we as consumers do have some leverage, even if MINI is limiting for the dealers' benefit. We need to make sure it is exercised when appropriate, but only when it is appropriate. You can't use free market as a security blanket to excuse bad behavior, and not be willing to accept the consequences should they occur. Even if it takes a while.

 

mdot, I am truly more amazed - you're right.

 

mdot, you ARE right!!!

That is an awesome response! You win!!

 

Free market never excuses bad behavior, just the opposite. It means there are consequences for bad behavior, eg, people will go someplace else to get their products if you have a bad product or bad service. And, yes the whole idea of a free market is for the seller to maximize their profit any way they want. If you don't like that, you can buy another product. That is the leverage you have as a customer. Don't buy from them. Yep, it may mean you don't buy a Mini. Go buy a WRX or EVO and let Mini know why you did. Or, go to another area and buy your Mini. Let Mini know that the local dealer was so bad you'd spend extra to avoid them.

OTOH, if I were a Beemer dealer with Minis on the side I'd look at all those potential mini owners as future Beemer owners and treat them well. I'd give them free BMW hats when they buy the car. Have them wait in the Beemer lounge area with free drinks where they can see the cars they might buy in a couple of years. Actually treat them as well or better than the Beemer customers. Give them a trade in discount if they trade 'up' for a Beemer. But, that's just me. Not everyone has that kind of outlook toward their customers.

 

Definitely agree with going where you're treated right. MINI has created a cult around their products and with all their advertising, etc., they should definitely hear about it when things don't go right. I, personally, have complained to MINI USA in the past about some issues (see the never ending roof rack thread).

Also agreed about the BMW side looking at the MINI owners as potential buyers, too. Of course you are right portablevcb, that is the wise approach.

 

Although you make a good point - I found that John Monk (Nashville) was so much more than a salesman. In fact, he really wasn't a salesman at all - he is a MINI enthusiast, which was what I really wanted in a MA. (You'll notice I live in St. Louis...). The MA definitely matters, especially since I intend to buy a 3rd Mini - the Clubman - as soon as I am able.

 

This is such a good way of putting it. Richard Tran at Herb Chamger isn Boston. is the same way Not really a salesman, but the perosn tha thas all the answers when you need them, not hovering over you like a vulture.

Rich was the first Mini MA i met, and he did not have that "Salesman" attitude. He introduced himself and stated "if you have any questions i will be right over here". Then when he heard my SO others son and i talking about cetian things in the car he would just inject a word or two to relieve our curiosity. Like when my SO son casually asked me where the battery was. Rich, from about 15 feet away said "it is under the hood, passanger side, under the cowl cover".

And not once did he ever try to do a "Sales Pitch"

I fact i have sent a lot of people to see him and none have reported back any thing about a "Sales Pitch" and all have remarked about his professional appearence and attitude.

He also knows a lot about the cars and rather than driving a dealer car he actually purchased one.

 

Glad to read that my own experiences are not so rare. Never felt pushed either and always got the help I needed. I guess considering how many MINIs I've had, you'd have to believe I've been treated very well by not just my MA, but by the service folks, and the dealership itself. Who knows, maybe it's karma?

 

My MA in St. Louis was very good. I don't know if I would call him an enthusiast, but he was nice and helpful. I ran him through the ringer though, modifying my order several times, once by email from a cruise ship. He sent me updated POs every time I made the change. He even threw me the keys of their demo JCW when it arrived.

I don't have any real complaints other than I would have liked him to know more about the car, considering the multitude of ways you can configure the thing. For instance, the fact that you cannot store voice tags in a model with a NAV was a big disappointment and required me to buy another phone. I also found it odd that he never really cruised NAM before. That should be required reading.

I do give him big props for ordering me a BRG/HC combo, otherwise prohibited on the configurator.