This really is a shocking development!

Dumbing down a car for Americans. Hey, but we are the ones who ride around with fog lights blazing on clear, dry nights, and dawdle in the left lane while clutching our lattes and cell phones. Maybe some of us deserve softie MINI's.

For those who care, and know better, shocks can be updated; but to reduce the character of the car in one market is a mistake. It shoud have been an option.

Regards,
Red :smile:

 

Just called MINIUSA , person taking the call said the "team" wanting the "more compliant" ie softer) ride won out..Please call MINIUSA and tell them to cancel the softer ride or offer it as an "option" and ask them to fix "REAL problems like "sub par windshields!!! and offer a total recall for windshields and coolant tank with new coolant!..Flood the Mini or we will end up with a dumbed down car like the VW GTI,,Also ask them if its "improved" then change the car WORLD WIDE..not just US models..Please Please everyone take the time to call MINIUSA and voice your concern and ask for Jack Pitney's email address so we can ALL drop a "few" e-mails to him..CAll today!! and keep calling!!!!!

 

Ps: I love my MINI and most of us who r on these various forums r MINIUSA best sales people..They should "pay us" a yearly commission!!..This is y I want MINI USA to step up to the plate and solve real problems with the MINI ie windshiels, coolant tanks and no loner" policies at various dealers when they only offer 70 dealers NATION WIDE!! when you have a warrenty repair,Should ALL offer a loner car"..and it can even be a NEON,,I dont care,,just need to quit taking a day off work to get my car serviced.. Truly amazing that they "FIX" a "non problem" and stone wall the REAL problems windshields, coolant tank and muddy coolant,,that really cannot be good for the inside of the engine with this muddy coolant circulating..Come on MINI/BMW..fix the REAL problems...and CANCEL your "softer shock " installs!!!

 

i just called and spoke to a very lovely lady named jen. she was glad that i called about it. she explained that they had recieved a lot of complaints about the rough ride so thats why they changed it. she said she is just as confused as we all are and hopes to get more complaints filed. so call now!! even if you dont have a mini on order! we need to change this! she said they are suggesting to bmw to offer it as an option... lets keep our fingers crossed!

 

I too just got off the phone with Jen and voiced my concern also. I also signed the petition.

 

I am still really pissed about this espesialy since I have not even ordered my car yet and so have been given no choice.

This is another example of marketing people making the decsions for an engineering firm. All car companies are at their heart engineering firms and should be run by engineers not marketing people.

The ford exploder is another example of marketing making engineering decsions. The ford engineers told managment that the explorer might have roll over issues in its current from back in the mid 1980's. They gave several options to solve this safety issue.

1. Lower the overall ride height of the car with lower springs, shorter tires and/or a combination of the two.

2. Lower the engine several inches to lower the center of gravity and raise the roll center.

3. Change the front suspension from the nearly 40 year old TTB(Twin Traction Beam) design to a more modern CV joint based short long arm IFS set up. The TTB set up in the first exploders made was the same set up in the dangerous and horribly roll over prone Bronco II.

Options 3 and 2 were shot down mainly due to cost. Ford had already dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into the Exploder project and major changes like that would have required retooling efforts.

Option 1 was shot down by the marketing dept. Using shorter tires or reducing the ride height of the exploder would have gone away from the image they were trying to create for the vehicle. A vehicle riding lower to the ground would not have looked tough enough. The tire change was not even that significant I think the engineers wanted to go from a 225/75 R15 or 215/75 R15 to a 225/70 R15 or 215/70 R15. That is not really a major tire change.

Marketing should not be making safety related choices.

I know the MINI issues is not a safety issue but it still pisses me off when marketing interferes with engineering decsions.

 

bumping it back to the top, everyone needs to read this....i'll be calling mini usa tomorrow!

 

Well I was going to order a cooper S tomorrow but now I'm not sure if I still want to. If I want a watered down car then I'll keep my GTI. That was the allure of the Mini it had a great suspension form the factory. I'm calling the dealer tomorrow and Miniusa...this sucks and I will not buy a mini that is watered down!
Mike

 

>>i just called and spoke to a very lovely lady named jen. she was glad that i called about it. she explained that they had recieved a lot of complaints about the rough ride so thats why they changed it. she said she is just as confused as we all are and hopes to get more complaints filed. so call now!! even if you dont have a mini on order! we need to change this! she said they are suggesting to bmw to offer it as an option... lets keep our fingers crossed!

Well I will tell you what the real problem is.

THE RUN FLAT TIRES.
Especially Mini S with S Lites.

6 out of 10 customers we sell Wheel&Tire Packages complain about the Run Flat tires that come on the cars.
Still, others are looking to gain accelleration and better handling through weight loss.
Personalizing is the last reason.

Once we set them up with some nice Falkens 512 or 451, they fall in love again.

Tell Mini USA its the Tires.

 

Even though I do not live in the US, I´ll support by signing the petition.

There are many subcompact (i.e really small - a civic would be a mid size by comparison) cars now in Mexico. When you combine a short wheelbase with soft shocks the usual result is a bouncy ride, so you would go from a "harsh" (sports) ride to a bouncy ride, which is still quite uncomfortable. All these "soft" subcompacts suffer from this problem.

 

Like I said in a different thread, I think they should bring over the MINI One and give that car the softer suspension and leave the Cooper and Cooper S alone! That way, the people that want the softer ride, can have it! and the MAs can just steer their cushy bums over to the ONE!

(what a hot topic this has become! there are a few threads out there about this, its hard to keep up with which is the original!)

 

NOTE: Please keep discussion on this topic focused in this thread. Multiple threads on essentially the same topic only dilute the effectiveness of being able to register the true enthusiast response.

_________________
cranes folded: 687 goal: 1000

 

I signed the petition yesterday about lunch time (I was #51)...I gather the response has been pretty amazing and the list is getting pretty long...cool! I passed this thread on to a couple of buddies who are car enthusiasts also (though neither are current or prospective MINI owners) and they signed the petition as well. One even posted a message about it on his MG forum that he frequents (MG Forum MINI shocks thread).


note there is some anti-American-driver sentiment expressed on the MG forum. I wouldn't expect that we MINI enthusiasts would be too offended by it, as I've seen many similar sentiments expressed here towards the "average" American vehicle consumer...this just has an added nationalistic twist. A number of the members of the MG forum were quick to point out the over-generalizations and stereotyping going on, so they seem to be pretty sensible people by-and-large as well as kindred car-loving spirits.
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Black Knight



His Faithful Steed: (in the US!!) '03 Jet Black MINI Cooper S w/white roof, mirrors, bonnet stripes and wheels; all 3 Combo Packages; Driving Lamps (hopefully); Roof Rack w/ Luggage Holder (for the rally gear!)

 

I posted this on my Bonneville board though there has not been much interest yet.

You wouldn't think the Bonneville, four door roughly 3400 lbs sedan, would have much in common with the MINI but it actually does.

The bonneville is can be ordered with a 245 hp supercharged motor that uses the larger M62 version of the MINI's Eaton blower. There are a couple 400 hp plus version of this motor under the hoods of some very dangerous sleeper bonnevilles too.

I am sure a few of my friends there will feel our pain and sign on too.

 

I've had two back surgeries and love my MINI the way it is. My solution was to purchase a MC with the sport package and run-flats which is still firm but not as firm as an MCS. To MINIUSA: If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Perhaps those who complained should be driving a Bucik instead but most American MINI owners fully appreciate what they have. Sorry Europe, but we are not all out of minds; some of us on actually on the same side. Where do I find the Petition?

 

I think the following true parking lot incident captures the marketing problem fairly well...

I got out of my MC the other day and this guy comes up and says:
"How do you like your Cooper?"
"Oh, it's a lot of fun. I've had a few problems, but..."
"I've got the S." he interrupts.
"That's great," I say. "I might look for a used S once the market..."
"The ride is really harsh," he interrupts again. "Just bam, bam, bam!" he says, slamming his fist into his palm.
"Yeah, they really tuned the suspension nicely. No compromises at all."
"I can't stand it. I'm going to get rid of it," he replies.
"Oh, wow... that's too bad," I say. "But didn't you test drive it?"
"No. My friend did. I just ordered one 'cause the wait was so long."
"Oh, yeah, right. Hey, want to trade?"
"I've got an S," he says dismissively, taking me seriously.
"OK. Well...good luck," I say, walking away quickly.

This shock thing could be the beginning of the end. The slippery slope that leads downward to the least common denominator. Which, in the US automotive market, is not statistically different from zero.

No offense to any of the true believers on MCO, but take away its suspension and the MINI has very little to offer, aside from some styling that will quickly lose its freshness in another year or two.

Next up on the auction block of mediocrity - the steering ratio. "It's too twitchy." "It jumps around too much on the highway." "I can't drink my Slurpee while driving with one hand at 90mph."

Let's hope it stops here, before they completely dilute the MINI's great handling characteristics. The good news is that aftermarket shocks are relatively cheap, so no reason to fret too much if you've got a car on order.

 

If I would have wanted a softer suspension I would have ordered a Chevy or Ford. I drove the MSC and liked the stiff, responsive feeling of the sport package. However, I have said on MCO before that MINI owners tend to whine a lot and some of that whining was about the stiff ride. BMW must be listening. Hope they allow some of the future MCS owners to have the same great experience we have with the siffer suspension. Good luck to future owners.

 

Can someone provide the "link" for the petition to BMW to keeps the shocks "as is"?..Thank you!!!

 

Whew! Am I ever glad I tookdelivery on my S just a week ago after an October order. 800 miles on Performance Run Flats on the 17 lite rims.

Do I feel the road? You betchya! Do I want to be a Bubble Boy when I motor? No way Jose!

I want to be one with the world. I want to be connected to the road.

Those who complain about Harshness should drive a Blimpmobile. Those are the ones who would complain about a spoeck of sand in their fresh steamers. Sand is part of their natural environment. Bumps and thumps are part of motoring. Get used to it.

My wife has a new Mazda 6. It's a perfect compliment to the MINI. It too has bumps and thumps. Goody Goody gum drops.

 

My opinion...
1) Some of our owners out there have a limited idea about what they're getting. MINI (...especially an S) is a special type of car. Lots of folks (guys) go ga-ga over the HP but the car's a total package!
2) Some owners probably don't give themselves time to adjust to the car which is a vastly different experience from most other cars out there. Give it time...then judge.
3) I saw this survey...its crap. I know corporate-types pay attention to JD Powers, but that shouldn't be the final authority. BMW...stay the course!!!!! Remember what you're creating here!!

_________________
'03 IB/W Cooper

 

>>Great car, but the company stinks big time. :evil: :evil:
>>
>>The biggest beef I have with BMW/MINI is their inability to tell the truth and deal straight with their customers.
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Let's put it this way: most executives would have used the same obfuscation to cover a screw up. So Jack Pitney is doing his job. Personally, while I join the huge chorus of complaints about the small cupholders, my frustration is placated with the MINI mug.

As for the change of oil type in the shocks, I don't think it applies to pre-May 2003 MINIs. The thread heading above is misleading.

 

Being on this board more and more shows me that 75% of the people who buy mini's complain about the dumbest things. little creaks, rough ride and so on. Just drive the car and enjoy it. if you dont like it dont buy it.

 

I think it would be more appropriate if MINI addressed some wusses concerns about non-Town Car ride-quality by offering a non-Sport Supension option (for some hugely rediculous price too) on ONLY the Cooper, and keeping the SS+ as the only suspension on the Cooper S.

Personally, I will GLADLY deal a choppy ride for top-shelf handling.
If you want squishy handling, go buy a Golf, and leave it stock.


so, to break it down:

Cooper will have the following suspension options:
Wuss Suspension (WS) $1500 <---only available in USA
Sport Suspension (SS) standard
Sport Suspension Plus (SS+) $500

Cooper S will have ONLY SS+

my $0.02, and I think it makes sense too,
Cheers,
Ryan

 

I'm sympathetic with much of what's been written on this but I think many of you are simply off the mark here. EVERY mass produced sports car represents a series of compromises between performance and marketability. Take the C4 Corvette as an example. When it came out in 1984 the folks at GM cheered about its skid pad results. The auto magazines could care less and complained that the car felt like you were driving an F-16 (as if that would be a bad thing!). The next year, the spring rates were changed and the car's performance suffered--but fewer people complained about the car's ride. Why should we be surprised to see something like this happen again with the Mini? Why should we conclude that MiniUSA is a poorly managed company because they're trying to respond to customer complaints?

The bigger point, though, is that there's always plenty of room for improvement with any mass produced car. That's why some of us are swapping springs, adding coil overs, etc. So if the quality of the shocks is a big issue for you, why would you want to keep the current "stock" shock as opposed to a quality aftermarket product?

Incidentally, if I were complaining about anything it would be the brakes, both because of the excessive brake dust and the tendency to fade easily under heavy use.

 

With the few problems I've had (general recalls and software upgrades) one of the things that makes the car worth it is the handling characteristic. Being able to feel the road and take on tight twists and corners always reminds me of why I love this car so much. I think it's strange that this is coming from BMW, a company that distinguishes itself from other automakers as creating a car that you actually drive and not just ride in. If you want a dull, soft, and just generally uninspired motoring experience, then drive a Corolla, SUV, or some Benz. If you as a consumer have trouble with the feel of the road, there are plenty of alternatives for you. I hate the fact that in the states we are always stuck with watered down versions of vehicles that are available in other countries but not to us. Most of the cars imported here have been modified to hinder the full performance potential the car is capable of. In conclusion I strongly feel that BMW/MINI is making a serious mistake in focusing on this issue, more concentration should be placed on matters such as perfecting software updates and perfecting quality control issues.

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no alarms and no surprises