You say that you "lost," Toastie, but you still have Ollie, don't you? And I'm guessing you still love him, flaws and all...tra-la!

 

I have just one suggestion. Read EVERYTHING. Read all the faults and all the good points ... MINI culture is great.

Don't take a blind eye ... either way.

The loyalists will tell you the car walks on water even if the car broke down every day.

The people with major problems will whine

Talk the middle ground, learn everything you can, and decide yourself.

Since your talking 07, while R53 problems are moot, HISTORY is not moot. All marques have track records ... histories of what is good or bad. First year cars of ANY brand are notorious for having problems ... and yes, the guinea pigs for working out the problems for later years. Its just a fact.

Make an intelligent decision by looking at everything ... its only a decision you can make. Have fun. Enjoy your new MINI, I am SURE you will! But also don't be blind to history.

 

Ya, Kenchan, aber ich bin Deutsch! No, I just mean his last 5 cars have been Japanese...

 

I for one never said all the kinks get worked out (lords knows my experience with bimmers shows they never changed plenty of kinks for even more then one model, they just got to know somewhat better how to deal with some of them) - it is just that when the product is new the problems are unknown, take time to surface, and the solutions and possible TSBs take longer yet. Also parts and materials often take longer to get when production is new. It is simply worth consideration, in my opinion; if you happen to get a less then perfect car that is a new model it is a different story then one that has been out awhile.

 

I like what you say, Chow--your advice seems to be well balanced...

I think part of the problem is simply that I don't HAVE the car yet--all I have to go by are forums! 'Course I won't have time to read the chatlines when I get it because I'll be on the road all the time. And we live out in the country. And we know all the twisty roads...

 

Chows no longer owns a MINI, Deb. But still, we can't get rid of him! He likes the MINI subculture!

Haha...when you get your MINI, you'll read the forums even more, I bet.

 

The forums are ALL you need. Just go to the main forums on performance and MINI talk. Start scanning backwards through time. Just look at the titles, you will know which threads are complimentary and which ones are problems. You dont have to read every post, that would take a lifetime. Just get the gist.

As they say "Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

Forget about the ancedotal posts like "I've driven my car 200,000 miles and it walk on water". and the the real whiners "My car had a flat and its a lemon" ... Just ignore them.

Most EVERYONE here will tell you the car drives like a go kart, fun on the twisties, a ball to drive, etc. I dont think anybody will argue with that.

For an executive summary ... you can try doing a search on the following ... look for the threads with lots of responses:

• limp mode
• rust
• car fires
• head gaskets
• mushrooming
• yo yo
• stumble

These tend to be the big ones. Little one are just annoying and many people think the car worth keeping despite them.

But ... these are old issues in the old car. R56 issues may be totally different.

A fair and balanced view is the way to go. As long as you buy KNOWING past history and its place and KNOWING your getting a first year car ... make the decision that is correct for you

BEST OF LUCK!

 

I too ordered the R56. I don't think reliability will be as big a factor for this new mini as when BMW rolled out the first gen. (You'd think they would have learned from the past mistakes.) From another post of mine:

It is true there are 6 years of production behind the current 06 mini, but that doesn't mean that the 07 is starting from scratch either. Many of the considerations that go into reliability will 'carry over'. There are several fators that go into reliability. Simply they are:

1) Reliability of the piece parts, yes reliability engineers can calculate failure rates based on all the piece part failure rates.
2) Design - How well are all those piece parts integrated into a design? Will all the piece parts work together as intended?
3) Manufacturing - There are several considerations here from facilities utiilization, employee training, quality control, process control, etc. the list goes on.

All these same considerations also apply at vendors who supply parts. As far as overall reliabiilty goes the 07 cooper is new, but even being new it shares some heritage in its parts with the old cooper. The transmission is the Getrag or Aisin (manual or auto) and pretty much the same except for gear ratios tweaked to match the engine(s). I suspect there are other similiarities when one looks at the piece parts. The design of all those piece parts is new, however, even there, some heritage to the old mini exists if only from a design experience standpoint of the engineering staff in working with the mini (the designers do learn from their mistakes and make design improvements). Item three is where I'd expect the most 'carry over'. One must remember that the Oxford plant was built new for mini in the late 90s. All the aspects that go into that plant functioning were new. Now there is 6 years of heritage in that plant. All the considerations in item three above that go into effective manufacturing are not tossed out and started over because the model year changes. The staff have that much more experience now in working with the facilites and producing Mini than they did when the first gen started rolling of the assembly line. If a hypothetical manufacturer were to start building the first gen mini at a new plant and a choice was to be made of first gen from a new plant and manufacturer or the second gen from the Oxford plant one would have to choose the second gen from the Oxford plant, no question! You'd always take a new part from an experience manufacturer over an old one from somebody just starting.

This is a very simplistic view of reliabitiy (not a reliability engineer, although I am an engineer) and not all encompassing, but I wanted to make a point. It seems the starter of this thread is making his decision solely on the basis of reliability or percieved lack therof. Take the engine, yes it is a new engine, but is it that much less reliable than the current to cause me to not buy the car? I'm not sure I'd make that judgement. Look at the manufacturer, the facilities they are made in, the engineering heritage behind the engine and you might come to a different conclusion.

Unfortunately this is reliabiilty and, no pun intended, it can be a crap shoot. You can buy the most reliable model on the planet and have it fail, and someone will, which is why we have warranties and lemon laws etc. Reliabilty overall 06 vs. 07? Maybe the early nod to 06, but I don't think the difference is as large as may be percieved, if there at all. And I expect over time the 07 and beyond to surpass the 06."

I think you'll be fine. I looked at the mini2.com site and the forum link to second gen fix and faults and haven't seen anything there that upsets me, with very few posts. No doom and gloom; UK and Europe has been driving them for a month and a half now. BMW has 6 years experience building mini, that is not all thrown out and started over with a new design. Relax. Everything I've read (and tons of it) from anyone who has actually driven the R56 is that it performs better and seems better put together.

 

And what is said about forums is true. When I bought an 04 Accord EX-L, I read a forum that had horror stories in it, and Accord is one of the most reliable cars on the planet.

 

Where do I fit in, major problems regulalry and I couldn't imagine driving anything else. Should I be whinning that my car can walk on water?









(eVal it wasn't a personal directive but a message repaeated by many from many sources on NAM, MINI2, WRR (some interesting debates about it over a year ago before it became GPRR) to mention a few.

 

I think a first year model is always going to be a crapshoot. Some manufacturers make it less so than others. I've had numerous 1st year vehicles (motorcycles, cars, trucks). Most were Hondas that never had a problem of any kind.

My MINI on the other hand has had a couple of mechanical issues in 15000 miles. Leaking motor mount and replacement of serpentine belt and pulleys (they were noisy but never actually failed). And some dash noises - creaks and snaps that the stereo covers up just fine. The thing is, the MINI has been so much fun to drive that I really don't care about the problems.

The only thing that is an issue with me is that the nearest dealer is 85 miles away. But, even that could be worse.

 

ya, just becareful some of us are actually Japanese and do not like
derogatory statements generalizing j-cars as "RICE." it's your son
that made his j-car a rice mobile!

now that we are clear on this, continue on!

 

Sorry--there's another thread (I think it's on this forum) referring to rice cars and I thought it was a common term for them. I'm new at this...

 

I've seen ken use the term before so I think he needs to explain the nettiquette

 

ok and thanks! the issues is when you use it in a generalized way
it sounds offensive. j-cars themselves are not rice... rice is when you
have these kids put on huge spoiliers and loud exhuasts, etc that have
no real performance benefits do they turn into what some people call
rice. also, there is a time a place to use the term... the way you posted
about german cars, then suddenly you generalize j-cars as "rice" you are
basically showing no respect. and you probably meant it that way...
and that's fine. but that's why i stepped in. that german cars
are not perfect either. we (not you personally) will butt heads now
and then and that's wat makes this site real. we exchange honest
opinions and honest experiences for (usually) a more constructive
discussion.

anyway goodluck with your R56. we'll chat more on another thread
another topic but ill 'over and out' from this one.

 

society in general really needs a good course on statistics. While the "stories" mentioned here all have some degree of content, the plural of anticdotes is not data. There have been almost 1 million of the New Mini made, and it's not a time bomb. the average number of issues per car was a bit higher than the average when they first came out, and are better than average now after 5 years.

Yeah, the midland tranny is an issue. But not every one made has blown up either!

PErsonally, I think the "wait until the bugs are worked out" is a lot less important than it used to be. Virtual prototyping is much better, as is FEA and CAD/CAM so that the parts are a lot closer to right before the prototypes ever come out! And if you wait, you're either driving an older car, or getting something else, either way, every day you wait is a day that you aren't driving a Mini.

Buy the car, enjoy it, and have fun!

Matt

 

Hysterical...,,,Somehow, you gotta know someone really loves their car in an irrational and codependent way when they mention all those problems and then say they trust the car even on long trips. But then I wasn't thinking 12 days of Christmas when I read the post, I was thinking more like 12-step program for car owners deluded into thinking their car is reliable when clearly it isn't or hasn't been. Let's see, what would the 1st step of such a program read like? "We admitted we were powerless over our cars failures and that the warranty was soon to run out!"

Then again, I suppose the better part of life is all in one's attitude. If one guy has a car that is constantly failing in one fashion or another, is he worse off than the car owner with only a single problem who is obsessed with the fact that wiper fluid sometimes leaves streaks on the car body under the rear window? (for real, read a complaint about that in another post here on NAM....)

 

Oh! Heavens yes! I couldn't get rid of him if I tried (and I HAVE tried... in very half-@$$ed manner, mind you )

I lost the reliability crap shoot, but I love my little car. And I don't hesitate to take him on long roadtrips. He's only left me stranded once, and that was a build issue as far as I understand. Irrational? Yes. Codependent? Possibly. Fun? Certainly!

 

Just want Deb to understand that she has entered a cult....

 

It is reliable where it needs to be. The clutch and tranny are noise not inoperable and they have been noisy for 20k it just so happens to be they are loud enough now that the dealer agrees that it is fixable. It hasn't left me stranded, and where it needs to run it does, the rest of it is where the issues come in, in the lesser things not the big things; I'd assume th average owner wouldn't even mention or do anyhting about half the issues I've had.
There is a TSB for that and I've been looking to find it again w/out sucess. 10 cent part was MIA on a few months of cars that causes leakage from the rear wiper.


Its good ole British cports car reliability.

 

See attached - happy new year

Here, I fixed that for you

 

I've got to share that with one of my BMW friends, I know he'll appreciate it.


Thanks for the TSB

 

I had your same problems. I really thought NAM would help me and that was the only reason I jioned. Athough it does help, it also makes me wait for one of the things I've read to happen to me.

 

I never did like that term used to describe a car's origin.

Anyhoo, my .02 is about the same as others. Forums can be a bad place to find out about a car. I thought the same about my 06 when I ordered after reading all the complaints. However, you have to remember that people generally will post complaints rather than "nope, nothing wrong today" and some people just like to complain.

In my case, I only had one problem and that was with the order getting messed up (cold weather package was missing). The dealer sorted it out and gave me a loaner in the process. Other than that, I have had 20K miles of happy motoring.

Gute Rutsche!

 

My own cult-status was confirmed 2 winters ago when both door latch cables had broken and my coworkers found me entering and exiting the car via the boot...

This only became a problem because, at the time, there was a little over 1 foot of snow on the ground so I had to climb into the boot, sit down, remove my snow-covered boots and then continue my journey to the driver's seat, so as not to crud up the upholstery.

DD... now that I think of it, perhaps you should be more fearful of what you will become, rather than potential reliability issues