Weight isn't the only factor. Until the SC kicks in, the Cooper has a little more power pulling it.

 

I have an 05 MC cabrio 5 spd and for my money there is no better combination of fun an economy out there. It is plenty quick. Just ask my wife who has been nicked by the long arm of the law twice this year in her 05 MC cabrio with the 6spd steptronic auto. I've put K&N air rams on the intake of both cars and I'm planning to add a catback to mine. I can still average 34-35 on the highway and about 33 mpg around town, so you can have the super charger with it's whine and be able shave an extra second at the end of a 1/4 mile. I saved $3-4k on the sticker, can still have a ball of fun with and spend that extra second enjoying the scenery.

 

I don't know if the newer cars dulled the effect compared to the 02-03 cars, but the bump in torque you get in a Cooper at ~4500 rpm is fun!

 

Well, this certainly started a conversation I wasn't expecting.

I'm not taking it easy on this car - I look at it like a test drive. I could be a customer, again, at any point!

Snid - the kick in the pants really does come at 4,500, and it's awesome!

I am still driving this cooper, which has a pretty awesome spec (pics later) if you ask me: HB/W, sunroof, leatherette, cold package, onboard comp, 5-stars (would prolly be better with holies), chrome line exterior. The thing looks sweet!

I think that this car is a little quicker off the line, but from that point to 4500, it bogs a bit. Once at 4500, it's all fun. It definitely moves and sounds great while doing it. I've wanted for more power a few times these last few days, but they've all been on the highway.

The MC is going back this afternoon, and I have to say I enjoyed it, as I thought I would. The MPG is amazing and the feel of the car is awesome. Hell, I went out and motored for no reason on Sunday, just like I'd do in my car, and the experience was just as fun.

And as for the debate about it being a slow car; sure, by today's standards of sporting autos, this is a slow car, but it doesn't matter at all. That talk and those numbers are for egos - what does the car make you feel as the driver? That's what I look for.

So maybe we should call these things "justasfun" instead of "justacooper".

mb

Edit - I totally forgot to mention that this gearbox is flat out better than the MCS'. It's pleasingly notchy, the shifts are sure with no slop, and the throws feel a lot shorter. Fun times rowing through it.

 

I recently drove an 06 MCS with about 5,000 miles on it. The thing I liked least about it was the feel of the shifter. My Midland tranny in my 03 MC shifts much smoother, while still having a positive feel. I had wondered if maybe the 5-speed Getrag shifted better than the 6-speed, sounds like it does.

 

Yeah, I know the 6-Speed Getrag on my '04 S feels very notchy (as opposed to being smooth). Not the best feeling in the world...but you take the good with the somewhat okay

 

What kind of moron wouldn't dump the clutch at least a bit if they were drag-racing? Everyone here who says the Cooper would be faster "off the line" keeps qualifying the statement by saying that the S driver isn't even racing!

And the whole weight issue is thrown out the window when everyone is running around with that huge sunroof.

On a MINI board, where conversation completely revolves around two models of said MINIs, the Cooper is "slow." If we were to compare an S to a JCW, the S is the slow one. It's a relative term, if you don't want to accept this fine, but don't start being a ***** about it! Yeesh.

.02 cents. Back on topic. I'm sure the manual Cooper is a very fun drive! Sorta wish I could have all of these loaners to test, but then it'd be silly to wish harm to my car just to try out loaners.

Ehm, off-topic again.. I really like the feel of the 6-spd S tranny. Combined with an engine damper, feels even better. Could use a moderate short shift kit though. Then I think it'd be perfect as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yea i really like the way my 6 speed feels. wish it had alittle shorter throw but other than that i love it.

 

ChrisW - I was really starting to like HB/W, and I'm a red 'till I die guy! Nice choice!

Pic of the loaner tomorrow...it really looks good with the chrome ext.

mb

 

Everyone says that? I've never qualified that statement is such a way. The Cooper is at an advantage off the live for many reasons. Weight, low-end torque, wheel size, etc. If both drivers dump-clutch and floor it, the "S" is also more likely to spin out with the added SC power. That, of course, depends on the driver. The tech aspects do not.

On this MINI board we only spend about 78% of the time on this topic. We do have lives.

 

That's my color combo too. With some Union Jacks here and there.

 

Mini Cooper or Mini Cooper S, both are great cars with people who just plain love to drive. These cars can be daily drivers, fun rides, track cars, or all of the above. Also, thank you to all Mini owners for being so cool to talk about your rides.

 

Well i really wanted Red with black or black on black when i first started looking. But i found this car and it had the Chrono and the head lights i wanted and low milies so i went for it. After driving it for 2 weeks now. I love the HB/W and am glad i ended up with it.

 

I'd like to see the dyno charts that make you believe Coopers as a general rule of thumb have a beefier low-end torque curve. This MINI2 thread seems to show the S having higher torque numbers throughout the entire curve. From 2.5k-3.5k, the Cooper stays fairly flat at 120lbs/ft. The S in that same range rises linearly from 130lb/ft to 150lb/ft. Maybe I'm reading it wrong though

Of course, I would only present this comparison as a serious argument if I thought every Cooper and every S came out of the factory with the same exact specs. But I wouldn't make such a blantantly wrong assertion because I realize that people have seen huge (10-20hp) variance between stock Ss.

I'd also like to know whether that HB/W in your gallery with the sunroof is yours. I'd find it somewhat ironic for someone who keeps on about this "150lb" weight difference. The only weight-adding option on my S is the xenons. And I'm sure you'll be happy to hear that I'm the trimmest I've been in years.

.
The funny thing about all of this is that I don't care whether or not my or any S will be quicker off the line than a Cooper. I don't drag-race. But I get irritated when people start being obnoxious talking about "smoking ______ off the line."

 

I think slow isnt the correct term but rather underpowered.

Have a passenger sit with you and the car is sluggish. turn on the a/c during the summer and the car is no longer as spirited. I had a cooper auto and a cooper 5 speed loaner. Both made me appreciate my own Supercharged S. Don't get me wrong, i wasnt running the cars as fast as i could. i was merely commuting to work through the city as i normally would in the loaners and saw the difference in several casual driving situations i go through daily.

The cooper is infact an overpriced 4 cylinder car. There are dozens of other 4 cylinder makes out there. To be honest, in a standard cooper you are basically paying for its safety features, branding, and go cart style ride.

 

I agree with redskunk. apples and oranges really.

the 6 speed getrag tranny on the S is quite effective and responsive. One problem it does carry over from the Getrag tranny in my e46 m3 is the knotchy shifting. This I thought i got away from in mini but apparently not. Infact my wife tells me my m3 is easier to drive than the mini with regards to shifting. It may be the fact that i have 27000 on the M and only 2000 on the MINI.

I think the MCS is a gem of a car. One hardly can find a car under $30000 with a supercharger, 6 speed transmission and an electronic steering motor on the market. I believe that steering motor is what keeps the standard cooper driveable. without it, i bet the cost in real world performance would be obvious. If driven mindfully, the fuel economy is also quite respectable. I do admit that spinning up the supercharger is quite intoxicating.

 

Either car is fun. You just have to choose horsepower or gas mileage.

 

Not over priced when it's the one of the few cars with 30 mpg + and a over 6 ft tall driver can be comfortable for more than 10 minutes in. The ride it gives is simply a plus.

 

in regards to getting smoked by an Odyssey, not as comical as you might think

The Honda is rated at 0-60 in 9.7 seconds: http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta.../pageNumber=11

Mini says the Cooper does it in 8.5: http://www.miniusa.com/sections/full...I_brochure.pdf

So the base Cooper is slightly faster than a Honda Odyssey, but that isn't exactly much to brag about

For what it's worth, I own a Cooper, and I'm not dilusional enough to think it's "fast". I do, however, love the car anyhow. It's a blast to drive even if it is on the slower end of the spectrum.

Edit - and despite the bravado about "knowing how to drive", unless you are a pretty experienced drag racer, you might be suprised by your inability to duplicate Mini's 0-60 number. I saw an article in a british mag once where they took an average enthusiast guy to a track and let him do a bunch of 0-60 runs. He was always well off the published time for his car (like SECONDS off, not fractions). They then put a test driver in the car, and the guy quickly banged out the published number in a run or two.

I've been an autocrosser for many years, and have gotten "ok" at launching my car, but I'm still not confident that I'd be able to get anywhere near Mini's published number in my own car.

 

Here's the loaner in question:



Nice spec.

mb

 

So the Honda can nearly keep up with the Cooper on the dragstrip with a professional driver, but how does it hold up on a 25 mph jughandle off ramp at 50 mph? I've done this easily in my MC. And in the end which car would you rather be driving? Isn't enjoying the ride more important that being the fastest off the line? There's always some one faster no matter much effort and money you put into your car. So like this thread started, "justacooper"
is packed with fun even if it does take a couple extra seconds to get to 60 mph. While you guys with the MCS's enjoy the extra power, those of us with "justacooper's" will be enjoying a couple more miles between fill-up's

 

humcmcel – I don't think satay-ayam was saying that he'd rather drive an Odyssey..

 

I'm not suggesting he would, but rather that the MC still has a lot to offer even if it's not the fastest rocket off the line.

 

Uh, I don't think you read my whole post.

A) I don't own an MCS, I have a Cooper

B) Nowhere did I say that it bothered me that my car was slow, just that it IS slow And I don't care.

Geez.

 

Haha, I laughed out loud at the suggestions that I should go to driving school for not being able to beat a Honda Oddesey in a drag race.

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...y-touring.html

Car and driver appearently did 8.6s 0-60, while the official time listed on Mini's website is right about the same. Don't forget that to duplicate the time in a Cooper, the test driver have to dump or slip the clutch starting at 4000rpm or so.

Do you seriously think it is a good idea to do that in day to day driving just so you can stay even with a Odessey with an automatic?

I've been able to do a 8.9s launch timing with my g-tech, and that's 3000 feet up from sea level. Just be realistic guys, the Cooper IS SLOW by modern car standards, and let's see how long your clutch lasts if you keep replicating the 8.6s launch time.

I still love my Cooper and I think it's fast enough for day to day use, I just don't see the need for defending the car in terms of straight line speed