I just dont think CR is a good source to base the reliability of a car on. Their results tend to be skewed and sometimes unreasonable imo.

Also, all cars today are reliable enough...there's really not a horrible car anymore. Even the Koreans are well-built and reliable. I know some people that base their purchases on whatever CR names #1...seems pointless to me.

 

Relability is a crap shoot for the most part, some cars are lemons others are not, some owners are good to their cars, others are not... and so on... The Mini, as well as all other BMW Group products are of first rate quality and tested to the extremes for quality. They don't always get it right, but hit the mark 90% of the time.

 

Consumer polls don't back this up. BMW Group rate products are in general known for their fair to middling reliability.

I come from a BMW family. Between my old man and my brother we've collectively owned over a dozen of them. My brother had a lemon, I had a lemon and a near lemon, and my father had two that were bought back by BMW AG. We've all sworn off the brand.

BMW rates in the lower strata of JD Power quality Rankings.

2006 Initial Quality was actually below both Kia and the industry average, ranking 28th.

Dependability? BMW ranked a fairly respectable 9th, however this was below Jaguar, Cadillac, Buick and Mercury. Mini - don't ask.

While BMWs and Minis are a hoot to drive - nothing really supports the quality claims that are bandied about here. If you enjoy your car, who really cares about rankings anyway?

 

skewed...how? I've been making purchases based on their ratings for years and years, and they've never steered me wrong. Granted, I don't use their guides to buy cars, but I do for nearly all home appiances. Are you a subscriber?
I'm not trying to start an argument...I'm just curious. I think it's a great publication.

 

Appliances, tvs, other various small items...CR seems to know what they're talking about. Plus, there's is a huge difference in quality between different brands of appliances, etc. My parents get the magazine and they base most of their SMALL purchases on whatever CR says is best.

I just dont think it's very useful for cars. I would never purchase a car based on anything they say. Just my opinion.

 

Well, then you're lucky. I bought the 1996 Chevy Cavalier new based on their recommendation (with at least average reliability predicted). Well, apparently the 1995 was pretty good, but starting with my 96 the reliability started a long slide downward, and I think the 1996 went from recommended (with average reliability) to "used car to avoid". I'd have to say their's something wrong with your prediction ability to make that kind of jump.

As far as how it could be skewed, other's have theorized that owner's expectations or how the repair is actually handled could play a role in reporting. In the first case, an owner of one brand could report something as an issue that another brand's owner does not. In the second case, an owner treated well in fixing an issue might be less likely to remember it come survey time than an owner treated less well. These theories can't be proven easily, but since the CR surveys rely on self-reporting and not random sampling using actual dealership repair data, they can't be ruled out.

 

You actually BOUGHT a Cavalier?

 

If I recall correctly, a lot of the JD Powers participants complained about the MINI at its introduction because they didn't like the small cupholders or the road-feel! What does that have to do with driving and car quality?

I'm not sure how CR gets its automotive findings, but all you need is some folks who don't understand sportscars or cars that handle well, but have more road-feel than others, to get some bad comments.

 

I agree 100%.

All cars have their pros and cons, and all modern cars are of acceptable quality...so buy what you like, not what a handful of people that fill out surveys like.

 

You are exactly correct. You have to be very careful to understand how the information they collect is manipulated and just what information they collect.

It seems to me that they consider a rattle in the dash to be just as big an issue as a failed engine. They just seem to total up all of the complaints, whether it is a rattle, cosmetic blemish, ill fitting plastic, failed engine or transmission, and take the total number of items. The more instances of complaints, regardless of what they are, the lower the score.

My '02 MCS had some rattles, squeaks, and a few leaks but I consider the car 100% reliable because it never left me stranded or made me alter my plans because I was worried about whether I would be able to get there and back.

How many of you have taken a poll from any of the organisations that publish these results? J.D.Power & Assoc., CR, or any other poll? What answers did you give? If you asnswered anything less than no problems, then you had a hand in the rating of the MINI or some other car. It is like the ratings of the dealer sales and service staff when they ask, or almost tell, you to be sure to put down all 5s. I say be honest but do not be suprised at the results.

JOHO

 

The same can be said about you not-so-in-love-with-the-MINI people. I've seen you personally quote a lot of these sites before when they said that the MINI wasn't so great. So do you stand corrected? I'm guessing not. I'll stick with what I've always said; if you look hard enough, you can always find someone to agree with you.

 

I could give a flying crap what CR thinks or JD power. I've owned a Mini and it was an unreliable piece of garbage. Yes it was fun to drive, yes I enjoyed it despite its problems but I'm not going to recommend it as a trouble free ownership experience - because for me it wasn't.

For the last few year, Minis have been getting poor ratings and the standard response here was some form of bashing the reporting agency/magazine. Now you get a bit of good press (for the MC) and all of sudden there are people who are using this "magazine that should stick to rating toasters" as a validation of some sorts.

As far as standing corrected, congratulations, the base MC is now on the CR most reliable list. One day the MCS will join it there and it can bask in all the glory that comes with a vaunted "reliable" rating. Wheeee.......

 

I don't even know where to begin with you.

There are absolutely no numbers to support your assinine statements. Have MINIs broken down? Absolutely. No one will argue that fact. All cars break down. I don't think anyone would argue with that either. Do MINIs berak down more than other cars in the same class? There is no information that would suggest so. You obvoiusly were one of the unlucky. There are Civic and Focus members that have a support group you may be able to join.
If you and you're bruised brethren would simply take the time to read before you write, you may accidentally learn something. I never said that I agreed with this review. Actually, if you had paid attention, you may have seen my point. For every article that has called the MINI un-reliable, there is n article that belives it to be reliable. I've posted many links, and have no desire to do so again. The MINI has certainly enjoyed more good press than bad. But really, you're not interested in that. You've made your mind up. The MINI is an awefull car and an atrocity unto all things automotice in your eyes, and no article is going to change that.
Anyway, I think that the one thing most of us can agree on is that your nay-saying will certainly NOT be getting any reliability awards any time soon.

 

And the point of that rant was ...?

 

Agreed all cars break down - some on average more than others - the Mini being one of the others. Despite the ribbing we give C4, I have no doubts as to the veracity of his claims. However, that does not dicount the fact the CR, JDP, R&T have all noted reliability issues with these cars.

They have been getting bad press for their reliability in both long term magazine tests and consumer rating groups. Live with it.

You're attempt at humor is obviously too sophisticated for my little mind. Maybe you can explain this witty comment in simpler terms so I can respond to it.

You have yet to make a point. You made a post asking if I stood corrected. Corrected to what?

Take a deep breath, turn off all the distractions around you and get it all out. But for the love of God do it in a way that makes a modicum of sense. The issue is the validity or lack of validity of CR and whether or not a person can dismiss or accept their ratings in order to fit their personal biases.

If you want to argue about the reliability of the Mini - I can bury you with TSBs, long term tests and the freaking stickies on this forum dealing with car fires and rust. How about electrical gremlins? Power steering fans? A little odd colored coolant in you split reservoir? BC1 and engine harnesses? I can go on all day. Ever hear of the stumble? How many ECU flash versions did they produce to deal with all the driveability issues of the R53?

The Mini is not an awful car and I dare you to show me where I've ever said it was. The Mini has a reputation for not being the most reliable car on the street. The Mini also has a reputation for being a fun car. It can be both at the same time. There are some of us who can love the car for its charms but rail against the issues without hating the car - or is that to complex for you to grasp?

The only glowing Mini reviews I've seen have nothing to do with reliability but how fun they are to drive. No one is arguing that. So post three REAL articles or studies addressing the awesome reliability (not fun to drive, not high style, no fan boy stuff, none of the goofy ghetto ratings pages you flashed Chows a while back) of the Mini - I'm begging you.

I really didn't expect to, seeing as I'm not a car.

PS: I'm actually a big Mini fan. It took alot for me to give up my little car - the actual decision took the better part of four months.

I'm not at all like Chows. He's angry, crabby and dangerous. He's been like that for a while now.........you were very correct to label him as a "hater".

 

The point of the rant goes back a few years Dustin.

When the consumer ratings groups began all but calling the Mini unreliable and trouble prone, people attacked the sources and the methodolgy that they use to cull data.

For the record, I agree that JD Power and CR aren't the most accurate way to measure the reliability of quality of a vehicle.

However, now that the Mini made the CR reliable list and began it's slow climb up the JD Power rankings, people began quoting this as some sort of achievement.

The point is you (not you personally) can't have it both ways.

 

Oh gotcha...I dont know the arguement so I wont get involved.

I personally could care less if the MINI is or is not on that list. Doesnt seem like much of an achievement to me. I didnt buy it for its reliabilty, nor do I blindly believe it's one of the most reliable cars on the road.

 

Except for my wife and kids, I personally don't buy my cars based on reliability either.

 

Just out of curiosity, what year was your car? I heard the 02-04 had some serious issues... If it was a later model, then I understand you may have had issues, but there are always cars in a particular model that become lemons. This review is based on the 06 I presume since it says '2006 MINI cooper hatchback... I believe the reliability is just now starting to improve due to the improvements made during the 05 and 06 model years. They are just better made cars. I think there is substantial proof from many of the posts here that the later model cars do not have as many of the issues that the previous years experienced. I don't think one report can claim it's reliability, but it's obviously beginning to move up in the rankings...

 

It was a mid year production 03

You are right, the R53 did nothing but impove over the life of it's production run. They are still having issues with harnesses (both engine and body) and the dual mass flywheel.

But your point is well taken. The frustrating small things that went wrong with the early models were mostly addressed by 05.

As of 10 minutes ago, Mini had released over 130 TSBs for the R53 Coopers. That's a high number for a car that had a production run of 5 years. Also, these TSBs do not cover two large issues - the engine fires and the door sill rust.

 

I started this thread and I don't get it.....why are those who had a bad experience with their MINI and no longer own one still even posting on this board? Seems like a waste of both your time and ours.......your beef should be directed at your dealer/MINI/BMW/State Lemon Law not us......just get over it and move on to your own forum....comes close to trolling.

 

I have no beef with you and if you think these posts are troll posts, well, you obviously do not understand what trolling is. I guess that simultaneously stating that Minis do not have the most sterling reliability record but the cars are a blast is now trolling?

Maybe you should make a request to the Moderators that all ex-Mini owners or all Mini owners who have less than postive things to say about the car should be banned from the site.

What part of my posts did you not understand? I have said, several times that I loved the car but it was unreliable. 130 MiniUSA issued TSBs are a testament to the ongoing teething issues with the car.........

For the record

I've owned a Mini and it was an unreliable piece of garbage. Yes it was fun to drive, yes I enjoyed it despite its problems but I'm not going to recommend it as a trouble free ownership experience - because for me it wasn't.

and:

The Mini has a reputation for not being the most reliable car on the street. The Mini also has a reputation for being a fun car. It can be both at the same time. There are some of us who can love the car for its charms but rail against the issues without hating the car...

(both posts from this page of this thread - by me)


Or am I coming close to trolling again?

 

lorrdy..take a deep breath, count to 10 and relax. whatta buncha cranky pants!
There are those who've had reliability issues and those who haven't, period. let's not turn this into a flame war.
imvho, CR is good for appliances, as I stated before...I don't rely on them for anything larger than a fridge.
I was just wondering why folks thought their car info was skewed, is all. I didn't mean to start a fight, ok?
Please, let's be civil and stop the name calling, k? thanks.

 

Don't worry about it. Their arguing isn't related to your question in any way.

 

The difference between CR's auto reliability reports and their other comparisons is that the reliability ratings are based on feedback.

Some people feel that traditionally, respondents are more apt to fill out these surveys if they are displeased with a car - a way of venting if you will. Variances on the same argument are used for JD Power surveys.........

Whether that theory holds water or not is up for debate. This is in contrast to their reviews of applianes where they actually test the products in question.