I think poking fun at SUVs is okay, but that the specific bumper stickers/shirts mentioned here take it too far. there's not point in being rude. everyone has their likes/dislikes/opinions/needs.

It's interesting that most of the talk in this thread is about the dangers of SUVs with just a little talk about their gas consumption.

I have to say that I feel slightly guilty about getting my MCS (still about 2 weeks away). I swore to myself that my next car would be a hybrid... mostly likely the Toyota Prius. More than likely it would be about the same prices as the MCS I have on order. But, I have wanted a Mini since they were introduced in 2002 and have waited for various reasons. So I went and drove a used MC. Loved it. Then decided I would get a new MC. Then drove an MCS and loved the extra power and decided I would get a new MCS. Ordered one. The whole time, I felt my standards slipping. The gas mileage on the MC isn't that great (when you compare to a Toyota Corolla or especially a Yaris) and the MCS is even worse! I thought... ah, I've become a typical American. I'm buying the car I want because I want it and I can. (And not to get too political, but I think "freedom of choice" often translates to "sense of entitlement" in this country... and I say that not to be combative, but because I'm a perfect example of it).

Nevertheless, I'm still looking forward to my MCS. It is a fun car to drive and I've driven Corollas and Mirages in the past and frankly, I'm tired of boring cars. Not just cars that are spirited driving, but cars that look interesting, too. But does that make it right for me to dump my standards and not buy a Hybrid instead? No. I guess it makes me a hypocrite.

As for SUV drivers needing them for their kids or to "haul" all their recreational vehicles, etc., I tend to agree... I think it is a bit unnecessary. For me, if I have kids (and I don't so it is hard for me to weigh in on that), I will probably only have 2 and I'm sure that if they didn't fit in the Mini comfortably, they would fit in the Hybrid Camry, which gets, I think, 50mpg on the highway.

Hopefully Mini will produce a Hybrid... the best of both worlds. They could ditch the backseat for the battery since the backseat isn't that roomy anyway.

 

To me that is the whole problem. People get SUVs because they "feel" safer in them which gives them a false sense of security & they seem to get disconnected from what is happening on the road around them. When in truth SUV drivers are not safer because of the lack of manuverability to avoid accidents & long braking distances they have. IMHO your wife is much safer in her 325 unless she gets T-boned by some 5000LB SUV. Of course in a 325 chances are much greater that she can maneuver out of the SUVs way

 

See to me hybrids should be renamed "hype"brids. Half of them don't even get that great a gas mileage & what will it do to our environment when we have to dispose of all those hypebrid batteries ahhh but I guess that is a debate for a whole nother thread

 

I think this is true to some extent... but something is better than nothing in terms of getting off of our gas addiction. we have to start somewhere. Gasoline powered cars aren't just going to go away by themselves and I think it is pretty clear that the U.S. government isn't pushing U.S. automakers to discover new technologies... Toyota had a Hybrid on the market for what... at least 5 years or more, before Ford ever got around to thinking about it.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. The US has got to reduce our gas dependence but a 35-40MPG hybrid isn't enough IMHO when you look at the environmental plus vs minus of battery disposal. Sadly to say the only thing that seemed to get anyones attention was $3+ a gallon gas prices & I am sure those prices will be back before long

 

Several years ago, my wife and I came up with the "Gold Star Stupid SUV driver of the Day" award. It was a daily award we would give to an SUV driver for doing something especially stupid, usually without regard for other drivers on the road. The award had to be given at the time of the infraction, so we had to decide if the driver did the stupidest thing that we thought we would see that day.

We would award them not just for hazardous driving, but also for exceptionally poor parking. This award was about people not knowing how to handle the vehicle they purchased. This could easily be said about people driving all sorts of vehicles. There have been quite a few single-vehicle motorcycle accidents in my city causing the death of the riders. The drivers are almost all young military guys who just got a new, fast motorcycle and drove the bike past their limit.

I like the comment made about allowing tractor-trailers to pass. The MINI community, like stated by a previous poster, is about acceptance. We all come from different careers, different regions, different beliefs, but we all have a common link through our appreciation for MINIs. If MINI drivers make an effort to be extra courteous on the road, especially to those who are bigger than us (which is almost everyone), maybe we'll pass the joy of motoring on to others.

 

there ya go, the idea that bigger is safer is a fallacy, and I'll tell you why. . .

For roughly 2-3% of accidents, it applies perfectly and is valid. That is, the 2-3% of accidents in which the driver has no time/ability to react. The problem lies in the way in which the crash tests are devised. Every US crash test is a "given" impact, or a "given" speed. In almost all accidents, the driver has some time to react, and this time can make a HUGE difference in whether or not that driver lives or dies. In an SUV, the brakes and handling are somewhere between bad and awful most of the time, meaning the "correction" they can make to lessen the impact will be almost none. However, in a smaller car, they might have been able to slow down an extra 5 mph, or in some cases, might have been able to avoid it all together. Sure, if you take it as a given that the car you are in will be in an accident and you will do nothing to react to the situation, then you are best off in an SUV (speaks to why the oblivious tend to choose to drive SUV's). Its ALWAYS safer to simply not get into an accident.

 

I agree with this 100%, Richard. I always make sure that truckers can see me in their side mirrors, and I am very careful to help let them into lanes, too. Motorists seem to forget how hard it is to stop such a huge vehicle! I am very respectful of them. They deliver our food, clothes, and MINIs!

And in reference to the first post, I don't care for the message of that SUV/POS tee shirt. It is rude and unsporting, two qualities I do not associate with MINI enthusiasts.

 

Ok but I can think it can't I as long as I don't wear no stinkin T-shirt

 

I HATE SUVs!

You may disagree and that's fine. Its not that people don't have legitimate needs for them, but IMO the majority of those "needs" are bogus. They've been artificially created by clever marketing (see the aforementioned HUMMER commercials). The truth is that most SUV drivers could get by with a much smaller car. In those few instances where they do need a bigger vehicle, renting a truck or van would be perfectly feasible. Again, I recognize that some people have legitimate reasons to own an SUV. If they use it for offroading, hauling large numbers of people, etc, then its ok. But what did society do before SUVs were the big craze? How did we all survive?

Again, nobody has a right to tell you whether you can own one or not, but you see SUV owners going around saying that they have the right to own whatever they want while abdicating their responsibility. That responsibility is mainly to know how to drive one safely. My guess is that the vast majority of SUV owners don't drive their SUV any different than a smaller car. That is why SUV drivers scare me. It isn't that there aren't wreckless small car drivers, but driving a larger, heavier, and less-nibble vehicle wrecklessly carries a greater potential to do serious harm to others on the road. How many SUV drivers do you think honestly change their driving mindset when they go from a smaller car to a large SUV?

SUV drivers probably aren't any worse than car drivers, but their lack of ability to properly control such a large vehicle is disconcerting. Once when I was sitting in my car in a parking lot I saw a woman in an SUV do (seriously) a 5 or 6 point turn just to get into a parking spot. If she can't even park it right, how is she going to do if she has to make an emergency manuever at 60mph on the highway? I don't have a problem with SUVs themselves, but rather with the general mindset that goes with them, that bigger is better, safer, and necessary.

 

hehe, anyone else remember the "esuvee" commercials?

Seriously, the fact is that these people should be driving SLOWER than normal cars to be as safe as normal cars, but instead, their feeling of invincibility often leads them to drive FASTER.

 

I do think that SUV's have their places, but I also think that they are over produced/sold and that there is to much of a dependency on them. To me the biggest problem with SUVs and MiniVans is that the American way of thinking is that for every kid that you have you need a vehicle that's even bigger. We have a one year old son and as soon as my wife got pregneant people where telling use to cancel our MINI order and get a mini-van or an SUV. We did just fine for the first 9 months with the MINI being our ONLY vehicle and never regretted not having something bigger. I know lots of people that have big SUVS and have one kid or at the most two kids. This is just like the house market where people have to have a 4 or 5 bedroom house when they only have 1 kid. Most of the SUVs that I pass on my 45 minute commute everyday up 95N in NOVA have one or two people in them.

As for the original post about the shirts and SUV comments. If it's not your opinion or belief then WHY DOES it offend you or make you mad. Everybody is entitled to their opinions. Just my $.02

 

Of course you may think it, Teresa, but no need to be in-their-faces like they are in ours, if you know what I mean.

And I am the original owner of a 1988 Isuzu Trooper, so I was on the leading edge of the SUV trend (sorry...) ...but mine is a 4-cylinder that gets about 20 mpg. I have used it to haul around my artwork over the years, and now hubby has appropriated it for his work as a production artist. It is definitely a well-used and much-needed work vehicle.

 

To each thier own......

I drive my MCS and my Dad drives this..........

Hate this:

11-12mpg

 

Now they're putting low-profile tires on this type of vehicle? YIKES!

 

My other problem with SUV's is that most SUV owners don't care about other people on the roads or in parking lot's. I have told a lot of SUV owners to learn how to park because they feel that they can take up their parking spot plus some of another since they have a large vehicle. almost everywhere I go I find at least 2 or 3 SUVs that are parked at an angel because the driver either a) doesn't give a crap or b) can't figure out how park and there for should be smacked and then given a smaller vehicle.

 

It's not just the ridiculously bad gas mileage I dislike about Humvees, it's the fact that they are exempt, because of their weight, from the standard safety rules for a car/truck/regular SUV. Look at the height of the bumpers on a HumVee - they'll ride up and over any other normal car's bumpers.

It's the ultimate in a "me first and screw the rest of you" ego trip. The number of people who "need" a HumVee, and aren't in the armed forces on duty, is about zero (I'm sure there are some specialty situations in which it's the perfect vehicle, but not as an on-road vehicle).

Do I have an SUV? Yep, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, which just got 21 mpg on a recent 500 mile trip, including driving through snow and up a bad gravel road to a cabin (which is why I didn't take the Mini).

 

Well said on both points. I think few people would deny that there is a place on the road for every kind of vehicle, but people don't question whether they actually NEED a massive behemoth when a much smaller vehicle would properly meet their needs. A while back in a similar thread I posted an article from the Washington Post about the Honda Fit. In order to test the car, the writer let a mom drive it around with her kids for the day and run all her usual errands in the Honda Fit. She concluded that it was just as functional and useful as her mini van. How many people automatically assume they need a large SUV, yet don't even consider anything smaller and more efficient?

 

hell yeah, just today I was at lunch with my wife (its her mini, I just talk about it more), and we parked like this. I got the end spot, since I was there first. She parked next to me, but literally, put her tire ON the line next to me (to be safe). When we got out from having lunch, there was a Tahoe parked so close that she had to get in the passenger side almost. The ******* had literally parked with their right side tires ALL THE WAY OVER the line. Its not like they were on the line, they were PAST it. I left them a rather angry note, "If you have to drive something this big, learn how to park it". I'm actually thinking of printing out a couple notes like that to carry around, so I don't have to scramble to find a piece of paper each time I need to write that note (this isn't the first time). Its not like these were small spots or anything either, the spot was easily 2 feet wider than their Tahoe.

What I really think is funny is when they park in the "compact only" spaces and take up two of them, as if its their right. . .

 

Or they park in a handicap spot. There are some pics of that over on fuh2.com.

 

*gasp!*

I'm so sorry to hear it Newdl -- just remember that time heals all things and that this too shall pass.

Poor boy.

 

MiniUSA used to have a preprinted "motoring citation" you could download at one time. I think I got one in my welcome kit Here is an unofficial version that a NAMmer did that is more appropriate to you situation
http://hoopi.org/Motoring_Citation_UnOfficial.pdf

 

I don't hate SUV's, just most of their owners. They don't pay enough attention when changing lanes (almost been killed twice by that), they think big=safe therefore they drive like idiots thinking nothing can hurt them. And where I drive, they are the vehicle of choice for soccer moms, full of distracting kids, and next to big rigs, they are usually the vehicle at the head of a long line of cars on the freeway driving slower than anyone else.

For MOST (not all) SUV owners, a minivan would work just as well. But that's not "macho" enough, so they buy rolling road-blocks.

Like a southern CA cop once said about an SUV, "The only time that thing will go off road, is when the owner misses the driveway at 3 am."

 

I can't believe this thread and crap is still here.

I am pro-SUV for the purpose. If I loved in Moab, I'd own a land cruiser, PJ or whatever in a heartbeat. Since I don't, I own a softroader. That said .... I think the T-shirt is VERY FUNNY.

First, if you can't laugh at yourself ... thats sad. I know where the authors coming from and find it funny. Why? YOU all know why ... what is the REAL POS in terms of Quality?????

Anybody here who owns a Honda or Toyota SUV and a MINI should understand this in a heartbeat. I got rid of my MINI specifically because it was "unreliable enough to be a daily driver for my wife" .... AKA POS although I never worded it that way .... IN COMPARISON to a Honda or Toyota.

So yeah, the T-shirt is a riot. I love it.

ALL the whining and crying about SUV owners isn't going to change ANYTHING. In fact, now with the downturn in gas prices ... SUV sales are up.

As to true 4 x 4s vice Crossovers. Crossovers have always existed. Hondas and Toyotas had always been crossovers except for the Land Cruiser, 4 Runrunners that were trucks. Crossovers are softroaders ... fines on gravel, snow, dirt roads ... but nothing to protect underneath that would get torn up by the rocks.

But Bama .... what about six wheel trucks... Large white delivery vans with no windows in the back? 18 wheelers ... you can't see beyond any of those either ... So why pick on large SUVs?

Where is your reference and emperical data to back this up? Or is this just what you "think?"

There was just an thread here the other day about a MINI driver hitting a tree, killing the passenger, charged with "reckless driving"

I would bet most SUV drivers do NOT weave in and out of traffic, hunt down twisting roads and drive excessivly over the speed limit. Putting the entire class of SUV drivers in one pool and the entire class of MINI drivers in another pool ... which would be the safer drivers?

CUVs have been around as long as SUVs. They are merely AWDs built on a car chassis like the RAV4 and CR-V. For some reason, Mazda and others are finally catching on ... duh.

Oh so sorry ... Please explain this.

You did preface this with IMO so thats cool. Everyones opinions is worth nothing, mine included.

But ... philosophically, I dont see why anyone has the need to judge another person's needs ... For example

Why do you need or have a MINI. You can't drive more than speed limit so why have a car that can go 135 MPH? Isn't that a bit of overkill?

 

I don't have "hate on SUVs" just hate of SUVs. Ok maybe just mild dislike. Here's my litany. They are big, gas guzzling, & unresponsive. Everything my MINI is not. Yesterday while driving 5 back from the bay area I saw one on its roof with flaming grass around it. It was quite obvious that it took the off ramp at more than 20 mph and rolled. It was a simple curving off ramp one that I could have taken easily. It's just that my MINI is everything that an SUV isn't; mostly fun.