I'll probably keep my JCW stock while under warranty, with the exception of adding an M7 Strut Brace to reinforce the towers. Even without autocrossing, that's an area that needs attention.

 

Herby-MINI of the Main Line sounds pretty good if they can do all that and cover it. Hell, I might take a trip up there just to meet the guys that would put up those pics in the "Our People" page of their site!

 

meeeh....I don't really care. I'll just make sure I get what I want on my car within the next year and call it good!

 

While current owners will wish this to be true, I think you should take a step back and look at the forest as a whole

First, you cannot compare MINIs miniscule 150K numbers with something like a Mustang. Probably millions of mustangs have been sold, one of the most popular cars ever sold ... it led an entire generation of pony and muscle cars ... thats comparing apples to oranges.

Now look at the overall market. The vast majority of mods go to MCSs. From GBMINI ... now your down to about 85K cars ... a much smaller number.

Of that 85K cars, how many actually do performance mods .... I would bet 20% is optimistic but lets take that as an example ... now your down to 17K cars?

Can an entire industry survive on that little number spread across the country? Obviously the market will bear out the numbers but the money will talk. Yes, some ppl will mod out of warranty. I would bet many will also sell once out of warranty.

If you try to look at this objectively, and not as a wish, the fact is the vast "majority" WILL gravitate to the newer, bigger, faster, better ... whatever. Its just human nature. And the numbers will not support or justify continued expenditure into old R&D. Yes a handful will still wish they were driving Midgets and spitfires but the market will not bear it.

Just project to say 2009, a mere two MYs ahead. Once MINI got 80K Gen II MCS Turbos out there, with the prospect of thousands and thousands more to be sold in the future (especially with more model variations), do you really believe aftermarket vendors are going to spend time and effort into old, obsolete business? IMHO the money will talk and decide.

IF, in fact, your talking mustang, camaros, Vettes, etc it would be different but you just can't compare apples and oranges ... thats just wishful thinking

Sorry to come across but my money would be on R&D into the turbos. Its only good business because thats a growth market. Gen 1 MINIs is a dead market. Sorry

 

^ Overall I agree with you, but there's a niche market for EVERYTHING imaginable. Now whether there's money to be made in it is another question...

 

I understand what chow is talking about, and it would make me sad if it happened, the 1st gen MINI just doesnt have the numbers compaired to super popular cars such as a the rustang (i mean Mustang), VW's, hondas, chevys, and so on. The MINI market for aftermarket modding is on a far far smaller scale. Since it is on such a small scale, i think the vendors might find it hard to spread their time between new MINI models and old ones for R&D. I can only hope that as the 1st gens become older and drop in value, that younger/or older enthusiasts buy them up and demand mods/parts to keep these cars going. I think only time will tell, but for now i believe the 1st gen MINI will still have a good base for demand on mods/parts. I doubt we will see a drop off any time soon, maybe about 3 years?

 

I think you mentioned VWs. Millions and millions of them sold. Yup, very popular so the money will be there

As to new kids coming up ... look at all the younger owners here in HS. They are buying MINIs ... they too will also want a new MINI. Why wouldn't they if they can afford it?

I am sorry but to hope for youngsters to want to buy the older cars ... might in some cases but i'd put the money on them wanting the most modern technology. After all, they grew up with computers as babes ... all they know is new technology.

Just my opinion on the 12 year olds.

 

Likely what will happen is that a few of the vendors for the current crop of cars will stay in business (or get absorbed) due to their positive reputation among the customer group. The rest will either move on or fail. Yes, the result is a net decline in our options for tuning resources, but given loyalty and persistance there will probably always be a few choices for when you need a redux pulley, exhaust, etc...

But we will never have the plethora of choices that Mustangs, Cameros, 'Vettes, et al simply because MINIs haven't been sold for (relatively) very long and not in large numbers as the rest.

 

shoot i wouldent worry at all about finding origanal parts for our cars, heck the dealer still sells new stock for my 84 E30 BMW

i can get new carpeting, windsheild, headliner and all the likes- as far as i see it well me able to order mini stuff for at least the next 15 to 20 years hehehe

even after its a classic

theyl prolly have to order it from europe but who cares as far as aftermarket i see no problem their at all

shoot the fiero still is going strong even after all these years, engine mods and the like, as long as their is a demand their will be someone their to make it !!!!

 

True, but alot of young people cannot afford the latest and greatest car. I know alot of people in my area who buy some cheap 89 civic hatch for like $1200 and then drop 10k worth of mods into it. I know not all of us like this sort of thing, but it does happen alot reguardless. Unless their parents have the money to spring the kid a brand new car, i think they will be buying used. I know alot of parents who buy a used car for their kids first car because they are most likely to be in an accident in their younger years of driving. So if they are buying used, perhaps they may buy a 1st gen MINI? who knows, like i said only time will tell.

Edit: also if a young person spends all their money on a new car, they may not have any money left over to do mods to it. I know alot of people who do not like to drive a bone stock car, so they would not go this route. They would rather buy a car thats about 4-5 years old and have money left over to mod it.

 

I agree with Chows, I was just using the Mustang as an example to prove that the R&D focus may have moved to new Mustangs, but parts still sell for older ones. If you want a car that is more rare, yet has a strong following, just look at Supra's, RX-7's, Corrado's, M3's, etc.

The sales of the custom parts is COMPLETELY up to supply & demand. Just looking at this forum, and reading responses to the 07 threads, you can tell that plenty of people are happy to have an 02-06 MINI and plan on keeping and modding them for now. Just look at how many people bought 06's to get the last of the MkII MINI. I did, and don't plan on selling it to get a turbo model.

I think that the current manufacturers will remain steady, though it is obvious that they will put R&D time into the 07. People will still come out with new exhausts, intakes, shifters, suspensions, etc. for our 02-06 cars, as long as the demand is there for them.

Drew

 

I think there are alot of interesting points being made here.

I think that most of us that have our second gen MINIs would like to think that our mod market will continue to flurish and be plentiful as it is now. However, we all know that there is no way it will grow much more then how it is now. It may see a small insurgence but it will not blossom with the same voracity as it has the last 4 years... that much is for sure.

It's a very odd situation since the new cars and the old cars really share so little of the variables in the equation. Even though they both share the forced induction and rocket hatch trait lets face it, the mini is a car that is generally targeted towards smaller tuner companies.

This being the case alot of these aftermarket tuner companies don't have the resources needed to uphold two product lines for two completly different engines. If the new car were just an asthetic upgrade as is usually the case with new gen's of american cars it wouldn't be such a big deal. However, we are talking turbo v superchared. None of the suspension appears to be the same.. etc etc.

It appears that like what was said this car will follow the path of most niche market fun cars out there.

In contrast I do think that as long as the mini specific car tuners (and lets face it those are the best of the mini tuners so far) switch gears so to speak and move onto the new turbo mini that car could become a dynamo. It will be alot easier to thrust a stricly turbocharged mini into the limelight at a nopi tuner festival then it ever was with the R53, and thus creating a much larger market then the current gen ever had a chance to. This may dilute the brand to the mini purists but it's change... for better or worse.

The r53 had alot of focus in it. It was an important car because it was being measured up against it's predessor. It's predessor being a 30 year old cult icon that remain mainly unchanged, where as the new mini is being measured up against a car which broke through and proved that change, while not always perfect. Can be a good thing.

This car is breaking new ground and entering new territory for the mini marque. BMW is going to try and do something with this brand that neither of the two previous generations ever really tried to do with any vigor.

Only time will tell but overall I don't think that any of this is worth getting worked up over. You still have the carbrio's driving the R53 modding market for another year so you will have the next year to watch how the market is going to change up. This fact alone is almost security in aftermarket parts... virtually one of the biggest saving graces for not only the r53 fence but also the new generation as it will let mini tuner's slowly transition and keep some cash flow while doing so.

just my .02

 

prime_drk has a point. The engines are totally different and share few parts ... that will have an impact.

I believe Gabe has a post on how long OEM parts for the first gen would be stocked. Don't remember the exact date but the MINI guy interviewed said something like 2012? Of course, anything can be made for a price.

Good point also on younger ppl not buying new. It just seems like there are a lot of HS or young people on NAM with new cars

 

Let me make a comparison that's a bit closer, at least as far as numbers go... I had (recently sold) a 1973 Volvo P1800ES - the last edition of the one and only Volvo "sports" car. Also the coolest station wagon ever built, but I digress...

There were only about 8000 of them made in 1973, maybe a total worldwide production run (P-1800/1800E/1800ES) of 100,000 for all years combined.

There are still new parts being made for these cars, and a *very* active mod/club community. I can get trim items, interior pieces, engine updates, suspension mods... Whatever I need, including new body parts and glass.

All this for a car that was and is *MUCH* less popular than the MINI.

I suspect that there will be parts - new and old, mods and stock - available for the MINI as long as there are people willing to spend money on them.

 

I would agree with that and said the Money will talk. The issue, however, is one of numbers. While this board is heavily performance oriented, most MINI owners do NOT mod their car for performance.

If, the relatively few enthusiasts can support the market, it will happen ... makes economic sense. If the next generation of owners invest in mods, so be it. THAT is the question.

There is just no way that tuners can ignore the Turbo because it has too much potential and unlimited growth (until the third gen arrives!)

 

i believe the figure was at least 15 years of parts supply.

EDIT: it was 15 years. Here's the quote



Also, FWIW, BMW still makes 90+% of the parts for the BMW2002 build in the 1970s

 

While it's hard for me to say this about the p1800 as it was the first car that bridged the gap between my fathers taste in cars and my own. I am not sure it is the best example here.

The p1800 was a car that was widley accepted as something different and was almost immediatly accepted into both the car market of it's day and the vintage circuits of today. The multiple years of production were made under a unified engine that shared parts and enthusiests opinions on the car.

The new mini is almost a changing of the guard. There is no guarentee, and this thread is a perfect example of it, that this new mini won't segment the mini ownership crowd. I tend to think this could do the same to the mod community.

Car buyers today are a fickle bunch. It is my opinion and my opinion alone that people do not necessarily expect nor look to the cars they own as a long term commitment. We at nam here may do so but we are such a small segment of the mini owning community that when push comes to shove, our ideas may not be the ones that are upheld.

Sorry to pick apart your second example and make comments about it's application to the current mini market. I am just bored at work and looking for a good discussion.

 

I think there will always be a market for aftermarket MINI performance parts. Staying in the Volvo vein, there are even parts made for modding Volvo 240s. Although there were a TON more 240s made than MINIs, the Volvo 240 crowd hasn't really been inclined to mod their cars. While the selection of available parts seen today won't be the same, I think there will still be some acceptable options in 10-20 years. Furthermore, as I stated before, IMO in a few years a larger percentage of 02-06 MINI owners will be enthusiasts. And I wouldn't discount it being a popular car among upcoming teenage drivers. There are plenty that couldn't dream of getting their parents to buy them a new MINI that will choose to go for a used one. I definitely would have done it if there were used MINIs back in the late 90s, and there was no way my parents were ever going to buy me a new car...

 

actually the contract norm for Tiers to maintain service parts is 10 years.

 

Do you think that M7 will cease to sell products for the Gen 1 MINI after they clear out inventory? I tend to doubt it. You will certainly see more investment in products for the Gen 2 MINI; but the Gen 1 MINI being dead? I just don't see it.

 

I understand - and I understand your arguments as well.

The main point though, is that 30+ years after production ended on the P1800 series, there are still new parts and new mods available. This for a car whose total production run is not much more than the 02 - 06 MCS run.

I do agree that there will be some market segmentation, and that the R&D money will move towards the turbo cars. That being said, as people pay off/trade-in/sell their cars, there will be a continued need (hence market) for parts and mods and toys, maybe even more than what we see now.

 

30 years, 15 years...I think the time is now to grab up parts like grills or an areo kit. We can get a pulley, cat-back or CAI for years to come. The reason being, and is already seen, is that smaller vendors and dealers want to get rid of these soon to be 'obsolete' parts.

 

M7, Webb, Helix, the big players, IMHO, like I said ... the money will talk. When push come to shove, its a business. Its not family, its not a human love affair, its business. As the number of Turbos grows and exceeds the number of SC units, the shift will inevitably occur. I said ... R&D and that is what I meant by dead. I didn't mean to say its dead now ... only after time (a bit of hyperbole I guess).

I guess I tend to look towards the future. Sometimes you have to see the hand writing on the wall (as they say).

The bottom line is that there is a group of enthusiasts who love the car. Maybe it will grow, maybe not. It doesn't matter ... with a new car, new technologies and the potential for much faster cars, the old goes and the new comes in ... its the way of life.

Of course, there will always be diehards but aftermarket R&D will only survive as long as its profitable. If its more profitable to go to the Turbos ... any good business is going to go where the bucks are (IMO). YMMV With 82K SCs out, once there are 150K Turbos ... I dont see any contest.

Toyota had SC engines, and then Turbos in MR2s. Out with the old, in with the new. Much faster car in the Turbo. I know a lot of people dont want to hear it but its just life.

Think about why BMW went to turbos ...

 

Actually I like this example very much..... will the Mini we drive make it into that special status afforded cars like the P1800, old Jags, Austin Healeys etc....... cars that are kept up ....shown off and loved by their owners...hell, there are clubs for Pacers and Pintos etc.

17K cars is a lot of cars (I would argue that as they age the % modded and kept clean will be higher)..... you would be very surprised at the numbers. A successful after market mod product for the Mini can sell as little as 100 units..... how many TC kits do you think are sold...... this is a very small pond we are swimming in.....very small...... no we do not have Mustang numbers, but will the cars be revered like the old "Stangs" or P1800s, I think yes.... and I believe there will always be a "niche" market for parts..... indeed, I would argue yes.

The beauty of todays market is outlined in a very good book called "The Long Tail." for example, 98% of all the downloadable music titles get purchased in some quantity every month...... 80/20 is dying or dead..... the diversity of tastes being nurtured by like minded people coming together to talk about and love "obscure" (Minis) objects on internet boards (NAM)..... (afforded by the new communication age) insures the continuation of Mini parts and new mods.....

 

Just food for thought.

1. Point one is uncertain. Maybe, maybe not. Depends upon how many people buy the next generation.

2. For TC, sure, lots of money. But how many have to buy a new IC to pay for the R&D? My point has been R&D ... do you invest in 30 units for old cars, or 300 units for new cars? Sounds like a no brainer to me.

3. Agreed, there is always a niche market but the niche gets smaller and the new version takes over

Finally, if your talking collecting them, take a good look at well sells at Barett Jackson. Its not modified cars. Any older car with totally OEM parts gets WAY more money than any aftermarket bits ... the higher the value for the car ... the bigger the difference. The cars getting the lowest parts are and older body with 21st century technology ... a big no no.

YMMV