On a recent trip in our Mini, we got caught up in a long traffic jam. When we finally arrived at the wreck that caused the slow down, there were two semis and one SUV inbetween...now about 3 feet long I felt sick thinking about how they'll retrieve the people compacted inside...

 

yeah, thats simply incorrect. Its not even the same as two identical weight vehicles going 20 mph (which would have been a more logical statement, albeit still wrong). Its very different.

 

Think about it. Two identical vehicles heading toward each other at the same speed. What happens along the plane at which they hit? Absolutely nothing. Just like hitting a brick wall. Think about boucing two billiard ***** together. It they are both travelling the same speed towards one another, they will bounce of each other just as if they hit the brick wall. Same works for identical cars.

 

No, what you saw there were vehicles that crashed into stationary test obsticles (as stated in the article). Further in the article, is a commentary form a Mini owner who's Mini actually did have a collision with an F-150, and the F-150 came out the worse.

 

Go here and read up.
http://www.iihs.org/
Both pictures came from the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety).
Here is a link to how they crash test cars and trucks.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/frontal_test_info.html

The MINI 02-06.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=303

This PDF address this very argument.
http://www.iihs.org/sr/pdfs/sr4101.pdf


The Ford then
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=7
The Ford now
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=192

 

F=MA

Last time I checked, nobody is going to change the laws of physics.

At least a Mini has a chance to swerve out of the way. I am wondering if I should tell this guy and burst his bubble?

And why can't the SUV swerve out of the way? What if the MINI driver has slow reaction times and the SUV driver has quick reaction times?

Isn't this just a bit silly? There are way too many variables.

 

What do you call a MINI at the moment of impact with a SUV?

A pillow!

 

I don't think physics changes, but the quality/robustness of the build of the vehicle and things like airbags does make a difference and the Mini has shown to be very sturdy in that regard. Also the fact that the SUVs do have a tendancy to roll is something worth considering when comparing vehicles.

And, speaking of physics, large taller vehicles are not as agile and able to swerve and remain in control, other factors like the weight, tires and steering have an effect, and the brakes/braking distance is a huge factor. The Mini driver is much more likely to be aware of things going on because they are not as insulated from what is going on, etc etc. Sure there are variables, but there is no doubt that the SUV is simply not going to be as good at avoiding an accident.

 

I would agree that the SUV doesnt handle as well, of course

However, I think the driver plays THE most important role.

Like I said, what if the SUV driver had faster reaction times than the MINI driver. You can be driving a F1 car and if your reaction times are poor, you lose.

Human beings are the weak link (IMO) in this scenario.

 

If you are to be in an accident, you want to be in the heaviest vehicle you can be in and what ever you hit you want to be small and light. If an SUV were to hit a MINI broadside in T-bone accident you WILL be injured. Reaction times be damned, there are things that the best drivers in the world can't defend against.

Any auto insurance company can tell you if you were to choose to be in an accident, you should choose to be in a big heavy vehicle and you want to hit or be hit by a small light vehicle. Your odds at coming out with lesser injuries is much greater.

Hummer H1 vs. MINI? Hummer wins.
Mini vs. MINI? MINI wins.
Hummer H1 vs. Jeep Cherokee? Hummer wins.

Hummer H1's weigh, what, 6500 lbs? And our cars tip the scales at 2400? That's like Earkle in a boxing match with Mike Tyson. Earkle is going to get his butt handed to him. That's why Heavy Weights don't fight Feather Weights, it's no contest.

I love my car and survived a partial roll over in it. (photos soon in the OL) I can tell you first hand, MINI's are tough little cars but they will not save your life in every kind if accident. NO car or SUV can for that matter.

Yes, SUV's roll over more often than MINI's, but oddly enough, SUV are designed to lift tires when in an off road situation, they have to be unstable and are built that way. That's why they are tip over at high speeds, they aren't supposed to be moving at high speeds. There steering is more exagerated to make tight turns at very slow speeds.

The only way to definitely say that a MINI is more or less safe than an SUV is to look at the number of the vehicles on the road, how many have been in accidents, what kind if accidents they were, what injuries were sustained and how many deaths resulted from those accidents. Then compare the same variables with SUV's. Which ever car or truck comes out with the least amount of injuries and deaths per 1000 cars on the road, is the safer car.

At this time, MINI's are still few and accidents are frequent. Our numbers would (more than likely) show that our cars are death traps, just like the SUV's.

Oh yeah, I'm in the insurance industry, bigger is better, just drive slower and if you see yourself getting into an accident in an SUV, you need to make a choice on who gets hurt the least, me or them.

 

You do realize you just spoke sacrilege amongs the "MINIs are the best thing since canned corn beef" Faithful?

Not only do they survive blazing accidents, climb tall buildings, spank porsches, but also "create" the water!!!

Just kidding. Seriously, the insurance industry thinks bigger is better? Is that why the insurance on my SUV is cheaper than the MINI?

 

Sorry to go off topic, but it kind of shows the "big vehicle" mentality.

I do railroad crossing safety presentations for the public. I recently did a presentation for a trucking company and had one person who was talking about how safe truck drivers are because of the vehicle size, and that in a collision with a train would come out pretty well. I asked him what his maximum gross vehicle weight was: 80,000lbs (40 tons). Then I told him that was the same as an EMPTY boxcar. Average weight of trains in the US: 12,000,000lbs (6000 tons).

Then I gave him this comparison since we run quite a few coal trains in my area.
One locomotive: 415,000lbs (207.5 tons)
Loaded coal car: 286,000lbs (143 tons)
Coal train (3 locomotives and 150 cars): 44,145,000lbs (22,072.5 tons), and maximum speed for loaded coal trains in my area is 50mph. Compare that to the loaded 18 wheel truck at 80,000lbs.

Okay, back on topic: I used to work for an ambulance service (and in law enforcement) and responded to many accidents. Anyone who thinks a big SUV is the safest way to travel is living in a fantasy world. I saw many more serious injuries, and worse, in larger vehicles than smaller vehicles.

The pics of the MINI vs Jeep accident reminded me of my only accident. I had an 83 Mustang and hit a 66 Chevy truck that crossed the centerline and hit me head on in a similar fashion as that accident. My Mustang came out with a broken driving light and bent license plate. The truck had a caved in grill and bumper and a bent hood.

 

Ok. Here are my points...

1. Reaction times are important. Yes the driver plays a very important role, as does the vehicle, time of day, weather, surface conditions, tires, tire pressure, brakes,... hell some may argue what you had for breakfast would come into play. Bottom line there are too many factors involved and complex finite element analysis involved to compare, assume, or predict any thing. Period. Case in point: my brother-in-law, just 2 days ago rolled his 05 jeep wrangler on the interstate. It was early morning and he was on his way to work, there was a box of conduit (i.e. 1"od steel pipe) and Flourecent bulbs in the road, he did an agressive lane change and the short wheel base top heavy suv rolled. His reaction time, nearly perfect. His job, Apache Helicopter Pilot and map-of-the earth flying expert. I just told him... dude this won't have happened in a mini .

2. Crash tests are not the bible. What they don't tell you, and you have to dig deeper to find out is that the results differ from test to test, not every test of the same car nets the exact same results, the results are averages. Why do you think the test results are so basic letter/color grades.

3.Insurance rates have many factors. My cars (02 liberty and 01 neon) which one is cheaper for the same coverage and deductable... the neon. Why? its the cheaper car and depreciates more. Then there was my last car 88 300ZX SS, only 1000 made, and it was more than the neon but cheaper than the jeep. Then location made a difference... i moved from the coast to the upstate... **poof** my rates dropped. suprised? nope. Jeep still the most expensive... yep.....err... what's my point here?... oh yeah insurance companies suck!! and they take your money too!!


BOTTOM LINE: Wear your seat belt and clean underwear ALWAYS!

 

Aww, do I have to wear underwear?

 

The guys commit that the mini would not do well against a semi is the heart of this. He apparently thought that he would do better in his SUV.
Last year we lost an entire family from my little town (mother, father, and several kids, 4 I think) in an accident on US 75 in Sherman texas. A semi crossed the median and slammed into their Ford Excursion, then slammed into a pickup truck with several workers riding in the bed. Needless to say several of them were killed as well.
These people were in an EXCURSION. The biggest SUV made!
The point is that no matter what you drive, there is always going to be something that can take you out, you are no safer in a SUV or a Smart fortwo.
Keeping alert and having a maneuverable car is far more important that armor

 

At our bank today, I was telling the young lady helping us that one of the reasons I love my Mini, is the ability to get out of trouble, faster than trouble found me.

 

I love how people buy SUVs with the intent of getting into an accident. The false security makes those people drop their attention span, thus they drive like everyone else will get out of their way.

Perhaps we should all drive International EXT (?) trucks so all will have the same chance?

 

There was a good article on the New Yorker pointing out how SUVs are inherently unsafe, and drivers buy them for the feeling of safety, not because it is actually safer:
http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html
Author makes a good point that a small car (like the MINI) is much more maneuverable than a large SUV and thus more likely to avoid getting into accidents all together.

 

That is an awesome article, that points out scientifically and psychologically feelings I've had about the majority (not all) of SUV owners.

 

Talking about SUV drivers and the like who feel imune in a crash, today in Reno this truck just pulls out from a side street right in front of me and the guy looks at me and gestures like hurry up and get out of my way, while pulling forward and blocking my path. I had to swerve and make the right turn to avoid hitting him broadside.

 

There are so many things that factor into premiums it would make your head spin.

All I can say about getting into accidents with a MINI, hit or get hit by something smaller than you or install a 10 point roll cage with at minimum a 4 point harness....and don't for get the helmet. If this isn't what you want to do to your MINI, drive DEFENCIVELY.

 

I think that some in the insurance business (who set your rates) would differ with you on that opinion ...

Size matters

Some think that a smaller, more maneuverable car is able to outrun trouble and avoid crashes. It's a myth, Rader says. "When you look at the statistics and insurance claims, small sports cars tend to be in more crashes," he says. Adding to the problem: "They tend to be engaged in faster driving."
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...sToInsure.aspx

 

As always, statistics can be manipulated as desired - " in more crashes" needs to be quantified; what type of accidents are the statistics based on, are rear end collisions or other accidents where both parties are not at equal fault in there, what is the pool of cars being compared to (are trucks even in the equation or is it just small car vs larger family car) ? What is considered to be a small sports car in those statistics? What are the other factors in the accidents (driver's age, population and types of cars in those areas, weather, type and year of car, etc)?

There are tons of factors that are not clear or potentially considered in this spokesman's statements, and honestly he has no way of knowing what accidents are avoided and nothing is accounted for that is not claimed to the insurance company, so let's just say he is not exactly the last word on the subject of whether accidents are avoided by driving a small nimble car with good braking distances and feedback vs a truck.

 

The article you posted isn't about what I am talking about and the quote is illogical. The article you quote also has nothing to say about how handling helps or doesn't help to avoid an accident and it says nothing about size mattering in crashes, so it doesn't even make your point for you. Small cars being able to avoid an accident and sports cars getting in to more accidents are two different unrelated matters. It is a fact that a Mini can out handle an SUV and will not roll over like an SUV will, so Mini driver has a chance to avoid an accident by swerving in situations where an SUV does not. Just because sports cars are in more accidents does not alter that.

 

I like to tell people that I have a one-ton diesel pickup in addition to the MINI, and I feel safer in the MINI. If people keep going with the talk that their SUV is 'safer' and would destroy my car if it were to hit it, I counter with the statement that the collision would most likely be the fault of the larger vehicle being out of control at the time or even worse, with no attempt to avoid the accident (trying to come out on top due to sheer size). In those cases, I say that I would pretty much be hurt but not 'smashed' as they say, and I would essentially own the driver of the big vehicle from then on out. That usually shuts them up.