Thank you, Caminifan. You and a few others seem to get where I'm point out. I am NOT using my insurance. I am making a claim against HER insurance. THEY need to make up for what is lost/damaged due to her incompetence.

Autologic, you are acting as if I was at fault. I am fully aware that I am not insured for mods. I did not want to, nor intend to. If I get in an accident on my fault, i.e. ram into a tree, I'm not expecting for them to pay for any mods. However, what happened Saturday is no different than some drunk rich kid racing, losing control, and ramming into my car in the driveway while I'm sleeping--either one, I have nothing to do with it. I am not at fault. I am a VICTIM... read my lips. It doesn't matter if I have liability only--it's not my insurance problem. What I'm trying to say is I was perfectly fine Saturday morning. Now I have a car that's not worth 10k to me sitting in my driveway. I don't think I'm asking for that much: I want what it would cost to start over. A fixed car isn't worth anything to me. I'd never buy a car I knew had anything more than a door ding.

You seem to have a hard time looking closely. Yes, I did get nailed at 55mph. I never saw the girl until the truck was down on the road, roughly 100 feet or so ahead of me. There were no skid marks, no squeal of brakes, nothing. Enough to knock the sun visor loose and hit me enough to leave a gooseegg, and enough to knock my seat, with harness loose. No, it was not a headon crash, more of a clip, as if she hit the back end head on, there'd be a lot more problems then there are.

Adjustors NEVER give a good estimate. I had a Saturn SC2 as my first car, before the Mini. I wouldn't consider it more than 1.5-2k worth. It had over 150k miles, etc, but the insurance only estimated 700 bucks worth of damage, when the shop noticed structural damage, and the insurance had to pay an extra 1200 bucks.

As for the lawyer my dad uses--he mainly deals with financial matters and real estate issues with my dad. He told me he does not deal with auto property damage. My guess is it does not make anywhere near as much as physical injury cases.

For everyone else, thanks. I hope this firm I am talking to tomorrow is better. They told me they will help with both personal injury and property damage. I've never had whiplash before... I'm not feeling as optimistic as I was Saturday. Each day is different, and so far, worse. I'm noticing crickly noises and some pain when rolling my neck and a lot of back stress... Hopefully I'm just overreacting.

For a repair shop, I'm going to go with Stoddard Imports, the local Porsche/Audi dealer. I both talked to one of the representitives and got an email from the body manager, and both were very helpful and courteous.

http://www.stoddard.com/body_shop.shtml

If you notice, they also work with the Audi A8 aluminum frame... I think this will be worth the hassle, not to mention I think I can trust on a realistic estimate.

Nate
SteyrTMP

 

I am glad you understood what I was trying to say - it really IS about the other driver's fault and all claims are benig made against the other driver's insurance policy. Also, be glad that they had insurance. If they did not have insurance, that would open up a whole new can of worms.... But fortunately, you don't have that issue to deal with (whew!!!).

It sounds like you might have a good firm. When you talk to them, get some references of people in circumstances similar to yours they have helped. And call the references (they will only give you names of people that will say good things about them, but...) when you talk to the references, see if the firm was able to successfully deal with any adversity that occurred in the respective case.

The post-accident pain is a b**ch (speaking from personal experience). You really should get a MD to look at you and get an MRI. The crickly noises are definitely something for the doctor to consider in ordering the MRI. Net, net - GO SEE A DOCTOR!!!! Your health is not something to ****** around with.

 

I understand the sentiment, but there's no 'undo' button. For my part, I'm just trying to help you understand the reality of the situation. Insurance (any insurance) will pay market value of a replacement (assuming they would replace it at all.) The value to you specifically is (sadly) irrelevant. While the value of a damaged/repaired car in the market is less than one that wasn't damaged, the delta may be a few thousand dollars. It's not a happy thing, but that doesn't make it any less true.
You may get enough in personal injury $ to get you back to square one, but not for the car. Getting hit is bad luck, and it sucks. Insurance $ will mitigate the raging PIA, but it will rarely get you truly whole.

 

Um, same thing really. If you call the insurance company and say you want to make a "diminished value claim", they'll know what you're talking about. Semantics. And as was said before, it does not have to be made after you sell the affected car. I just went through this process.



SteyrTMP, I feel your pain (no pun intended). I was recently involved in an accident where the other person was completely at fault and I wanted the same as you - for my car to be returned to the condition that it was in before the accident. Fortunately, my car didn't sustain any really heavy damage, and it was returned to its pre-accident condition (at a hefty cost to the offender, I might add). You're in a different boat, though, and so it may be harder to accomplish the same thing. Even though you're entitled to a car that's like it was before the moron ran into you, due to the extent of the damage, it might not happen. It's a hard pill to swallow, but unfortunately that's how the car insurance business works. If they don't total it out, you'll have to get it fixed, even though that's not what you want. If they do total it out, you're not going to get what it would cost to replace the car - you'll only get what it's worth (this is where gap insurance comes into play, but I have no experience with it and don't know who would have to have it - you or the offender - in order for you to replace the car, if it's applicable to this situation at all). For this reason, and because of your personal injury, you should be taking the idiot to court. Don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting or condoing going after them for everything they're worth. But you do need to claim what you're entitled to. They shouldn't get a free pass for their gross negligence.

 

Hmmm. Well at least we seem to have moved beyond the fugedaboudit (the mods not being covered) stage. Lets level set here: 1. The policy that will be charged for the damage to Steyr's property (his car) is the policy (and in particular, the Property Damage section) of the driver that hit him. 2. Fair market value (unless there is a law in the state of Ohio that says otherwise) is the value of his car plus the value (parts and labor) of the mods that were made to his car (in other words, the total value of his property) less a deduction for depreciation of the property. There can be a debate about what constitutes valid depreciation of the total value of the property, but one thing that will not be debated is where the starting point for the calculation is. If Steyr had not been hit, but instead had damaged the car by himself (like running it into a tree), then there would be a different treatment of the mods because insurance policies generally have an exclusion of coverage for owner-added items (such as aftermarket stereos and performance enhancements), unless the owner purchased specific coverage for the items that were added to the car. (And in the example of if Steyr had damaged the car himself, the Collision section of his policy would likely be what covered the loss.)

 

Since the other party was 100% at fault, the claim is not handled against the other parties property damage insurance (as far as I know), but rather it's a tort claim against their insurance. The key and subtle difference is that a tort claim (as described earlier) requires the victim to be made 100% whole. The reason why I point this out is that the other parties' property damage liability language might exclude diminished value, but that doesn't come into play because diminished value might be required to make you 100% whole in a tort claim. Similarly with covering mods, getting rental reimbursement, etc. Other than that point, though, I think caminifan very accurately describes they way things will work in this case.

 

No offense, but this sounds like a distinction without a difference. The complaint willl be against the other driver and the other driver's insurance company will defend them. The insurance company will most likely charge the defense and settlement costs (for the damage to Steyr's car) against the Property Damage section of the policy. (And concurrently, the defense and settlement costs for Steyr's physical injury will likely be charged against the Personal Liability section of the policy.)

This is the theory of recovery that I have been using in my prior posts to the effect that Steyr will be able to recover for the damage to his entire property (the car plus the mods). The only area for debate is what is the depreciated value of his property immediately prior to the event of loss.

You seem to have answered the reason why I doubt that the exclusionary language would be in the Property damage section - the victim is required to be made whole.... And the property damage section is generally the vehicle for making the victim's property whole.

 

Understand that there are two aspects of a Personal Injury claim as it applies to automobile accidents. The property damage and then the bodily injury portion.

Now that the original poster has informed us that he has decided to make his property damage claim directly against the other party, his claim will be paid out of the property damage portion of the other party's policy. Whatever the limit is on this policy (10,25,50 thousand dollars, etc.) is the aboslute limit he can claim against the at fault party's PD coverage. Property damage includes: rental expenses, loss of use, ACV plus tax license and unused registration for a totalled car, cost of repairs for a repairable car, and diminution of value claims.

Also, exclusions on a defendant's policy are not going to apply to the plaintiff/claimant.

 

Well, I picked a lawyer, but I'm not sure how or if they are going to try to help with diminished value. They are hitting on the personal injury (just got back around 2pm, been out since 8AM to the doctor, hospital, and body shop). The doctor said I definately have whiplash, sent me out for xrays, and prescribed me on painkillers (Ugh), muscle relaxants (Ugh x2), and Motrin. 102 bucks plus change... and I won't see that until the end of the settlement. I should hear about the x-rays in a few days... I hope it's something serious... but temporary/fixable. They lawyers want me to get sent to therapy.

I went to the Porsche shop (where my Mini's at), and they weren't kidding when they called last night--it won't start anymore. I tried to turn it on--the lights go on, but the engine doesn't start.

Still thinking 55mph is BS, Autologic?

I asked when I'll have it back so I can give the rental "shitbox", as one girl called it, back... I was told maybe the end of May. Also, they know I want it totalled and they told me they would do what they can. It really looks like there might be quite a bit more than previously noticed. They were wondering if there is a killswitch (I forget their term) for the engine when you get hit.

Nate
SteyrTMP

 

Hmmm. A number of threads: Did you ask the attorneys if they can help you with your Property Damage claim? The Bodily Injury claim will be where the $ is for the firm, but you need to be made whole on your Property Damage. They should provide one-stop shopping. I am a bit concerned that the doctor did not order a MRI. There is a major difference in the resolution between an X-ray and an MRI. You will need that difference plus the diagnosis of the radiologist to back up your Bodily Injury claim. Did you ask for a medical referral from the law firm? When you mention the lawyers want you to go to therapy, are they referring to physical therapy? That (physical therapy) would seem a bit pre-mature until the pain subsides. The meds are part of the process; probably the most useful one is the anti-inflamatory (Motrin). Also, on the medical costs ($102 and counting), does your policy have a medical costs component? If it does, that is one way to cover the costs until you get to settlement.

Sounds like more damage to the car from the accident.

Kill switches generally turn off the engine when a certain parameter is exceeded, but the engine is not disabled. I had the opportunity to experience how a kill switch worked on a 1986 GTI that I owned in a previous life when I was autocrossing it. I spun it and the engine was killed in mid-spin. When the spin stopped, I was able to re-start the engine and continue with my run. Maybe the DME was damaged by the force of the impact???? (This is pure speculation on my part; but it definitely seems like there is additional damage to the car.)

 

Probably not a killswitch, but a fuel shut-off. However, have you started the car since the accident, if so it isn't a fuel shut-off.

Steve

 

Some cars have a fuel shutoff activated by collision impacts. Also the battery is in the back of your MCS, it could be broken...cracked case.

 

Interesting - you might be on to something. It would explain initially being able to start the engine but no longer.

 

Doesn"t the MINI S have an explosive bolt on the battery designed to cut electrical in the event of an accident?

Am I just out halucinating in left field?

 

I thought that the exploding bolt was exclusive to the BMW 3, 5, 7, etc. cars. I don't think it made its way over to the MINI. Even if it had, I thought that Steyr had been able to start the car after the accident, which if the MINI had the exploding bolt, would not have been possible. Unless there was a delay in the bolt exploding?

 

It's the yellow (I think) gizmo next to the battery in the back. Don't know where it is in the Cooper, or if it has one.

Matt

 

Well, it is nice to know that the exploding bolt technology made it to the MINI. However, how does that square with the ability to start the engine after the accident? If I understand how the exploding bolt technology works, once the bolt fires, it must be replaced before the car can be started again.

 

Matt

 

Looking at the exploding bolt theory...

I'll admit I can't remember if I turned it all the way on or not. I vaguely remember the fan running, but not sure if it fired up. As for the battery, I know it's still connected, because when I went to see it at the shop, I could turn the key and the lights turn on, the turn signals work, etc. There's power, just no start.

Even if it was a fuel cutoff, there should be some sounds when trying to start. The starter would work, and things like that. When I turned the key, there was no sounds at all, just the lights.

Frankly, I'm not going to suggest anything to them--the longer it takes for them to diagnose everything, and more parts required, the closer to being considered totalled. They know I want it totalled and they told me again yesterday that they would see what they can do.

I'm kicking myself in the *** for not knowing that I could have had an independent adjustor look at the car. I wish I could have had that. Also, apparently a diminished value claim is available AFTER everything else is settled. I'd much rather have that attached onto what they are having to pay for damages already, because it will definately help aim towards totalling it. My lawyer doesn't seem to really want to work with that; my guess is because they don't make anything out of the property damage part of the whole problem. I guess I'd either have to find someone that specializes in property damage/diminished value, or use someone like this:

http://autoloss.com/index.html

Nate
SteyrTMP

 

Your attorney should be able to handle the entire claim for you. It's true that they don't make any money on the property damage portion of your claim, but they should still make sure you are taken care of the right way.

I handle all of the property damage issues at our firm, and we make it a priority to take care of all of these issues so our client only has to worry about what's important...taking care of their injuries. This is good customer service, and is looked at as a cost of doing business when representing people for injuries relating to auto accidents.

You've got a good case liability wise vs. the at fault driver. The other car hit you at a pretty high rate of speed, so the causation for injury is there too. This has the potential to be a valuable case, especially if there are any long term objective injuries that are spotted on an MRI.

Given all of the facts I just went over, you have the leverage to deal with an attorney and tell him/her what you want done. If they don't want to handle all of your property damage issues, find one that will. You just got this attorney, so they wouldn't be able to charge very much at all to your new attorney if you had to get them replaced. The smart attorney will just promise to handle those issues for you, at no additional cost.

 

Just wondering... The MINI like many modern cars has "crumple zones" that are designed to absorb energy in an accident by deforming. If these areas are crumpled, and then straightened, does the metal still offer the same energy absorption as it did originally, prior to the accident? Lets say that the accident doesn't totally crumple the metal, just distorts it enough that the body panel mounting points aren't quite aligned, or the suspension mounting points are distorted, enough so that it has to be put on a frame puller to straighten, will it still be as safe, or offer the same protection as it did originally? Could you require these areas be replaced, rather than straightened, for safety's sake? Would the insurance company that refuses to pay to return the car to its original level of safety, be liable in a future accident for higher than expected injuries?
Do we have any metallurgists or physicists that would care to comment?

 

I'm no expert on mettalurgy, but ponder this: If you get in an accident and your child is in his/her car seat at the time, the insurance company has to pay for a replacement seat, no questions asked. Mind you, even if there is no visible damage to the seat (which is typically the case) the fact that it was in the car when the accident happened turns it into unusable garbage.

 

Any sheetmetal that is structural that is bent must be replaced because of the designed energy absorbance. If anyone says that structural body parts (that have been in an accident and have deformed) can be re-used, get them to provide a letter from MINI that states that the deformed sheet metal parts can be re-used. As the manufacturer of the structural sheet metal parts, only MINI can make such a statement. Anyone else making such a statement is smoking something. Absent the letter from MINI, any statement regarding re-use is just so much bulls**t.

 

I agree, but you need an MRI. At this point, the doctor has only ordered an X-ray.

Very true. You only get one settlement. If you don't include the damage to your property (your MINI) in the settlement, the moment the settlement is signed (and if necessary, approved by a Judge), you just ate the damage to your car. If your current attorney doesn't want to handle the Property Damage, you should be looking for another attorney.

 

Right, an MRI will show lots more than an X-ray, but it will probably be a while before he receives one. I've had clients that have gotten a CT Scan or an MRI on the same day or really soon after the accident becuase they went to the ER, and the ER doctor recommended it. Lots of times those results are negative, because they are taken too soon after the trauma. I've been told by a few doctors that it takes a while for disc bulges and other long term objective injuries to really manifest. Also, the MRI should be read by a board certified Orthopedist in order for any objective injury to be taken seriously by an insurance company, and sometimes it takes a while to get your client seen by one.