R50/53 M MIni 300 hp
Coordinator :: Northwest Indiana MINIacs
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From: Valparaiso, IN
Originally Posted by Smokin'Mini
The MINI I'd like to see would have the engine where the back seat is, driving the rear wheels. Mount an intake on the roof for cooling, and a few other mods, and you'd have an interesting one-off MINI to play with. Now if only I had the money, knowledge, and facility to do something like this...
Coordinator :: Northwest Indiana MINIacs
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,412
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From: Valparaiso, IN
Originally Posted by Smokin'Mini
The MINI I'd like to see would have the engine where the back seat is, driving the rear wheels. Mount an intake on the roof for cooling, and a few other mods, and you'd have an interesting one-off MINI to play with. Now if only I had the money, knowledge, and facility to do something like this...
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by element
Can BMW please make a rwd M Mini? Please!!!
phil.
phil.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
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From: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted by DrDiff
Sort of a modern take on the Renault R5 turbo? Or the now retired Huffaker Mini from SCCA runoffs?
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Maryland
Originally Posted by DrDiff
Sort of a modern take on the Renault R5 turbo? Or the now retired Huffaker Mini from SCCA runoffs?
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by JeffS
Because noone wants to warranty a 300hp 4-cylinder. I don't blame them, as it would have to be tuned to the point that people would start destroying them fairly quickly trying to get more power out of them.
Regardless, the price would be rediculously high. Maybe I'm not a big enough mini fan, but I'll take my 300hp in an EVO.
Finally, the decision-makers at MINI are apparently idiots. I have to conclude this when out of ALL the engines on the planet, or that could have been designed and built for the mini, they picked the lump that they did. One that has to be supercharged to reach 170 BHP. That's sad. Sadder still is that they get a chance to fix their mistakes and they do the same thing all over again. We can always hope that the new engine will have a better head on it, and thus much better tunability, but I doubt it. An efficiently designed engine with a turbo on it that doesn't top 200 BHP is... yea... sad.
Regardless, the price would be rediculously high. Maybe I'm not a big enough mini fan, but I'll take my 300hp in an EVO.
Finally, the decision-makers at MINI are apparently idiots. I have to conclude this when out of ALL the engines on the planet, or that could have been designed and built for the mini, they picked the lump that they did. One that has to be supercharged to reach 170 BHP. That's sad. Sadder still is that they get a chance to fix their mistakes and they do the same thing all over again. We can always hope that the new engine will have a better head on it, and thus much better tunability, but I doubt it. An efficiently designed engine with a turbo on it that doesn't top 200 BHP is... yea... sad.
I was highly dissappointed to hear that there wasn't a bigger engine going into the new Mini. I don't care HOW big of a turbo you put on it, the bottom line is that the small displacement will ultimately hold you back if you're looking for good downlow power.
3rd Gear
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Originally Posted by RallyMINI2005
Fifth, MINI HAS tested an AWD variant, and the very detailed report is available on the web (Google up Getrag AWD MINI and it should pop right up). From what I hear, there isn't much of a business case for AWD on a car at this price point. It would push the cost into EVO territory, and I don't think that's where MINI wants to be. They are probably going to stick with FWD and DCS for the forseeable future.
You must not have taken a look at a Mitsubishi dealership of late. Let's put it this way, Minis RIGHT NOW are in "Evo territory" as a price point. Optioned out, these cars can top $32k. Personally, I think that's ridiculous for what you're getting, a sub-200hp car. And its handling is only marginally better than the AWD cars available. The only reason I think the Mini is a decent deal is because you can buy them used. The new prices are just stupid. That's just my opinion, but when I see people here crowing about how they just got their cars for "only" $28-29k, all I can do is laugh and shake my head.
Fools and their money are soon parted.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted by mtbscott
Well....all the auto manufacturers of the world seem to agree. The only FWD cars out there approaching 300hp are heavy on the lux side (i.e. large Acura sedans) that don't attempt to dial in performance style handling. Torque steer and front weight bias are the FWD handling enemies. It is minimized in a lower hp/lower weight vehicle and LSD helps but dial up one of those factors and handling will suffer.
- How can the HP dictate how a spring expands, or how a shock absorber compresses?
- How does the HP rating change ride height or skew the geometery of the suspension system?
- How does the HP rating modify the stickyness of your tires?
Last edited by dominicminicoopers; Oct 13, 2005 at 02:04 PM. Reason: spelling err
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Ohio
Originally Posted by mtbscott
Well....all the auto manufacturers of the world seem to agree. The only FWD cars out there approaching 300hp are heavy on the lux side (i.e. large Acura sedans) that don't attempt to dial in performance style handling. Torque steer and front weight bias are the FWD handling enemies. It is minimized in a lower hp/lower weight vehicle and LSD helps but dial up one of those factors and handling will suffer.
Luxury is sold because it's in demand & its conservative. A luxo coup has all that HP because the **** is HEAVY!!! It needs that extra power to have any kind of decent performance.
Were the MINI a different car I'd say you had a few valid points re: torque steer & weight bias. BUT The MINI's engine block weighs more than some V6 blocks do. So... the assumption more power = weight gain & nose-bias is not accurate.
Torque steer can be controlled pretty well. There are lots of FWD cars pushing 250-280 horsepwer through the front wheels. While its not an ideal configuration (for accelleration or controll) 300hp at the front wheels isn't undrivable either.
MINI 300whp/2679lbs. 8.93lbs./hp
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6th Gear
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Hey.....it doesn't have to be 300......how about 250-275.....the point is more power and a more serious attempt at a "sports" version. Still a street car ala M3, M5 but one with some real punch......how about a V6 in the new one?
I know we can get there with mods but wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy from the factory a M series Mini.
Doesn't Hubie have 400 hp ... is his car a dragster only? Eric says that his twincharge modulates power very well and works as a daily driver.
I have spent a rediculous amount of money getting my car to something approximating the level I am talking about with NO warranty and no gaurentee of performance. Is BMW underestimating the market for a more aggressive "factory" Mini?
I know we can get there with mods but wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy from the factory a M series Mini.
Doesn't Hubie have 400 hp ... is his car a dragster only? Eric says that his twincharge modulates power very well and works as a daily driver.
I have spent a rediculous amount of money getting my car to something approximating the level I am talking about with NO warranty and no gaurentee of performance. Is BMW underestimating the market for a more aggressive "factory" Mini?
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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BMW has always been off on their estimates of the Amaerican market. They were completely convinced that they would sell far more Mini's than S's and it took them quite awhile to overcome that mistake . In the very beginning there was talk of a "M" mini but the fatory put that down by reasoning that it would tie the Mini more tightly to the BMW line and at that point that was not what they wanted to accomplish.
Coordinator :: Gulf South Motoring
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Hammond, Louisiana
Originally Posted by DrkSilver163
Other car companies have built formidable powered FWD cars, i gove you:
The Alfa Romeo 147 GTA, 250hp, albiet a V-6 but its still 250 hp at the front wheels. If tuned could go much higher.
The MINI is a lot different, like someone said, 300hp out of a 4-cyl is dangerous, and scary. I would want to try that too often unless i had a team of mechanics waiting in the pits for me. But more power is possible...there are fours that pump out 200 hp...theyre just 2.0s. Bigger engine is key here. Im just pulling things out of my butt now, but just my 2 cents.
The Alfa Romeo 147 GTA, 250hp, albiet a V-6 but its still 250 hp at the front wheels. If tuned could go much higher.
The MINI is a lot different, like someone said, 300hp out of a 4-cyl is dangerous, and scary. I would want to try that too often unless i had a team of mechanics waiting in the pits for me. But more power is possible...there are fours that pump out 200 hp...theyre just 2.0s. Bigger engine is key here. Im just pulling things out of my butt now, but just my 2 cents.
There was a car in Hot Rod once,
Originally Posted by Smokin'Mini
The MINI I'd like to see would have the engine where the back seat is, driving the rear wheels. Mount an intake on the roof for cooling, and a few other mods, and you'd have an interesting one-off MINI to play with. Now if only I had the money, knowledge, and facility to do something like this...
Not a looker....
Matt
1st Gear
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I love these threads, makes me smile thinking of all the guys on there 1000 CC 130+ Hp bikes that get smoked on the track by a guy on EX250 with 40 Hp+
Nothing more fun then seeing them talk about how great they are before the first session and then hearing the silance as by buddie pulls into the pits gets a drink and opens a good book. Like its no big deal that he smoked them.
Power is nothing without control.
Pro driver with 115 hp MINI against rice boy in his EVO, my money is on the MINI.
Nothing more fun then seeing them talk about how great they are before the first session and then hearing the silance as by buddie pulls into the pits gets a drink and opens a good book. Like its no big deal that he smoked them.
Power is nothing without control.
Pro driver with 115 hp MINI against rice boy in his EVO, my money is on the MINI.
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Ohio
Originally Posted by conehead
BMW has always been off on their estimates of the Amaerican market. They were completely convinced that they would sell far more Mini's than S's and it took them quite awhile to overcome that mistake . In the very beginning there was talk of a "M" mini but the fatory put that down by reasoning that it would tie the Mini more tightly to the BMW line and at that point that was not what they wanted to accomplish.
MINI was supposed to be ecconomically freindly & be a cool 'bridge' to bring the 'Pepsi generation' into the BMW family... Eventually the MINI owner was supposed to grow up & realize that a BMW product was what they had always wanted - but didn't know it yet.
What BMW couldn't have known was that MINI would excede expectations re: consumer perceptions of quality sportiness & value. BMW's orignial MINI-customer profile was out the proverbial window... The market segment turned out to be much broader than originally anticipated & targeted.
The new MINI is easy & fun to drive, and it outperforms many cars in the BMW line-up! Add to this that the new MINI's received automotive journalist accolades & has remained one of the automotive press' favorites.
From a branding perspective BMW reserected an icon/brand, and strengthened it to the point that MINI's recognition (world-wide) is only slightly less than that of the BMW brand. Some marketing folks would say that's too much of a good thing... Your 'B' brand attracting customers 'down-market' from your more expensive & prestigious 'A' offerings.
This also just happened to occur at a time when the 3-5 & 7 series' were getting fatter & according to many ugly
(Frankly I think MINI saved BMW's image.)IMO BMW now believe that the first MINI was too much of a good thing. Because of this there's little incentive to further improve performance of the 2007 MINI. It certainly wouldn't help BMW sell the 1 series and could further blur the line between brands.
my somewhat cynical .02
5th Gear
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Originally Posted by RallyMINI2005
I've seen MCS' with 250bhp stripped of their heavy interior bits fly around a racetrack, and trust me, 250 is just fine to run down 993's and M3's! 
And of course, a Lotus Elise is the best example of this philosophy, its only got 190hp and will run down Vipers and Vettes... Anyway, that's my rant.
RM2k5
And of course, a Lotus Elise is the best example of this philosophy, its only got 190hp and will run down Vipers and Vettes... Anyway, that's my rant.RM2k5
My example would have been the Caterham 7, but thats just me..
Also, if you want to read about big HP heavy cars vs. small HP lightweight cars read the Winding Road issue 4. Winding Road is a free online magazine.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted by SpiderX
Doesn't Hubie have 400 hp ... is his car a dragster only?
6th Gear
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From: Northern Virginia
You mean something like this? Made by team Qvick fitted with a E36 M3 engine.. 365 RWHP 
A great start of the week for Team Qvick, with an engine reprogramming that delivered amazing results. During the New Racing Festival, the first time the Cooper S3 saw the circuit, the engine did not work as it should. It shot flames through the exhaust, and the fuel consumption was too high. Another company reprogrammed the engine software, and the results were so unbelievable they dyno tested three more times. The power increase of 15hp to 365hp at the wheels and a larger power band is nice, but the new programming mainly shows itself in the torque curve. An improvement of 100Nm to 400Nm. Plus the engine is a lot less thursty, an extremely important matter in the Belcar endurance races.
With the improved engine, Team Qvick took to the Spa-Francorchamps F1 circuit, joined by the shock breaker manufacturer Technoflex. The duration of the test session was shortened by three hours due to a motorcycle race, disabling the team to experiment with the rear wing set up. Nevertheless, it was a valuable experience.
A lot of progress was made in fixing the break balance problem. Break and tire temperatures confirmed what the test drivers suspected: only the rear left break was doing its job. Causing the car to pull to the left under heavy braking. The exact root of the problem has not been found yet, but the ABS system is one of the suspects. The road behaviour is excellent. The car sometimes has trouble gripping at the rear, because of the stiffness of the rear suspension and the lightness of the rear end (there is no trunk on the car). A problem that will be fixed with a refinement of the set up.
The Mini is equipped with a system that puts extra down force on the nose: Part of the air that passes through the front bumper is guided to the holes in the bonnet. The system performed too well on the fast circuit of Francorchamps. The front bumper was not prepared for the extra pressure, and at certain points came in contact with the front wheels. It was taken off and put aside for the remainder of the session. A new born baby always gets a few child diseases. The important thing is that the car has no structural problems.
During the last part of the session the bonnet became a victim of speed. The bonnet was not properly secured on the lower left side, and the rushing air tore off the lose peace. Luckily the only incident during a valuable test session.
With the improved engine, Team Qvick took to the Spa-Francorchamps F1 circuit, joined by the shock breaker manufacturer Technoflex. The duration of the test session was shortened by three hours due to a motorcycle race, disabling the team to experiment with the rear wing set up. Nevertheless, it was a valuable experience.
A lot of progress was made in fixing the break balance problem. Break and tire temperatures confirmed what the test drivers suspected: only the rear left break was doing its job. Causing the car to pull to the left under heavy braking. The exact root of the problem has not been found yet, but the ABS system is one of the suspects. The road behaviour is excellent. The car sometimes has trouble gripping at the rear, because of the stiffness of the rear suspension and the lightness of the rear end (there is no trunk on the car). A problem that will be fixed with a refinement of the set up.
The Mini is equipped with a system that puts extra down force on the nose: Part of the air that passes through the front bumper is guided to the holes in the bonnet. The system performed too well on the fast circuit of Francorchamps. The front bumper was not prepared for the extra pressure, and at certain points came in contact with the front wheels. It was taken off and put aside for the remainder of the session. A new born baby always gets a few child diseases. The important thing is that the car has no structural problems.
During the last part of the session the bonnet became a victim of speed. The bonnet was not properly secured on the lower left side, and the rushing air tore off the lose peace. Luckily the only incident during a valuable test session.
Coordinator :: Northwest Indiana MINIacs
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From: Valparaiso, IN
Originally Posted by VoiD
You mean something like this? Made by team Qvick fitted with a E36 M3 engine.. 365 RWHP
A step in the right direction though! If this would have been the MCS package.... I would have gotten a MCS!
Originally Posted by JeffS
Because noone wants to warranty a 300hp 4-cylinder.
Originally Posted by JeffS
An efficiently designed engine with a turbo on it that doesn't top 200 BHP is... yea... sad.
5th Gear
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From: Arroyo Del Valle
I'd be happy with 200whp if they would also shed about 600lbs. Drop weight and everything else works better too, brakes, springs, turning, and of course acceleration. I have a vehicle that makes only 125 hp. 0-60 in 3 seconds, top speed 160mph. Turns and brakes like nothing else. Weighs 600lbs with me on board. I think we have seen that the 4 cyl can put out 200hp. I just wish they would offer a stripper model MINI that was lighter. What really gets me is these show cars that have high power but they have added 1000lbs of sound gear. It really is all about power to weight.