Certainly not my reason for having an LSD!

 

This is something that I was thinking about doing. Did you buy the trans new or were you able to find one salvage? Could you share about what this cost for the trans and the installation.

I have expected that your impression is correct, that the gearing difference delivers a performance gain that is similar to that delivered by the JCW style motor mods.

 

I had air lockers front and rear on one of my old Landcruisers. Inadvertently locking up all four wheels on the street would have been deadly , but it was unstoppable off road. A few times I actually jumped out to watch while it crawled along at idle over rocks in low-range 1st, then climbed back in.

Sorry... back to our technical discussion.

 

Hi BFG9000, I was hoping to tap on your expertise in this matter since the question of "groaning" has been bothering me for sometime now. Is it possible that the groaning sound you are referring to in the above quote could become more apparent as you drive the car more i.e. approx. 1000miles? What puzzles me, and I am sure some others following this thread, is that the groaning sound was not there when the car was new. I think it would have been easier to swallow the "LSD groaning is a feature" argument if the sound was there from the beginning. Also, the groaning that I hear when going very slow is more of a pulsing (grrrr.....grrrr...... grrrr...) sound which becomes continuous as I go faster. I would really appreciate your thoughts about this matter. It seems MINI SAs are not at all knowledgeable about this.

 

I really like my Detroit Locker. Around turns it goes click-click-click loud enough to echo off other cars.
I've had Auburn-type diffs before and they never made any noticeable noise. But Auburn does require addition of a slip modifier: http://www.auburngear.com/aftermarke...chure_2000.pdf
Sadly, it appears even Auburn have now started calling them torque sensing, but we know the difference. The cone shape merely gives much more surface area than the usual clutch type, though you'll notice the service kits contain no friction materials (carrier housing, side gears). So when they wear out they are disposable.

I even have a Phantom Grip and while it works fine on my lightweight car (nothing else is available for it), I would not recommend it for something as heavy as the New Mini. It has very little friction surface resulting in low preload and low torque transfer capability. Would work pretty much like a worn-out friction diff on a heavy car.

Xalfa, I would call those Air Lockers Driver-Sensing diffs. They sense when the driver has pushed the button.

And lhoboy, that may be because the steering theoretically tightens up each time you get on the gas with the Quaife, where the friction types only tighten after slip is occurring when you are probably too busy to notice. My only Quaife equipped car has three Quaifes, so I hadn't noticed.

 

I bought new (full MINI warranty) The combo is too new to find in the salvage yards yet. I found dealers charging anywhere from $2700 to $4400 plus a $200 core charge. The core charge is lost since you have to return the same part number, but I have found buyers willing to pay $600-700 for used transmissions in good working condition. Contact me offline if you need some help. Installation is a simple swap. NO MODs. Should not cost more than $500-800. My net cost was $2700. Do it next time you need a new clutch and there is no incremental labor cost.

 

The LSD noise can be immediately cured by having your dealer replace the factory lubricant with the replacement lubricant recommended by MINI.

MINI has not started a "Campaign" to replace the oil, however, there is a Bulletin. If your SA is not aware of this, tell him.

The change in lubricant is all it takes to kill the groan. The new one has an additive that does the trick.

Trust me - I went through this. Had the groan, and now don't.

=R=

 

Or... you could drop a tab of real LSD, and your groan would turn into a shimmering violet crystal thousands of feet tall that radiates lemon flavored love-waves in all directions. Your choice.

 

Rygold, do you happen to remember what the bulletin was called? Or was it just mentioned as changing the lubricant for LSD equiped MINI's?

 

The worst part of having a Quaife LSD is when I apply too much power around a turn, I understeer off line. Whereas without LSD, I'd spin the inside tire and loose speed...I'd rather have traction control with my right foot than steering control with one tire anyday

 

SB: I don't have any knowledge as to what the Bulletin is called, however, it advises that if a customer complains about the "groaning" sound the lubricant is to be changed.

Dealers are not routinely changing the product, only if the customer initiates the conversation.

How dumb is that, anyway?

=R=

 

Thanks, Rygold. It must be a newer tsb. In November I mentioned this to the dealer and they said it was the CV boot. I'll give them a call tomorrow.

 

not dumb, jus politics

 

Does anyone know if the new oil decreases the effectivness of the LSD? That is my only reservation about having the oill changed. The noise is caused by slippage of the cone clutches in the LSD, if reducing the noise also reduces the friction between the cone clutches I would not want to do it. I want the strongest LSD effect that I can get.

Any help here? Anyone really know?

 

I have a 2006 MCS with LSD built on Nov 14th. My LSD makes no noise what so ever & to me appears to work very well. I'm guessing that it's got the latest lube in the tranny.

Chuck

 

I picked mine up on Nov 5th and I had heard talk about the new oil well before mine was made and assumed that mine would have the newer oil, but who knows. Maybe they don't install it from the factory. Mine didn't make any noise for the first 1,000 miles.

For awhile it was getting louder and louder, now it seems to be getting quieter, or maybe I am just getting used to it. We'll give it a few more miles and see what happens.

But if anyone has real information about how or why the new oil quiets the LSD I would like to know.

 

The slip modifier is likely similar to that used in some ATF. That only affects slippage at low pressures but does not increase slippage when the wet clutches in an automatic transmission are fully applied. Theoretically, this may mean the LSD action could be made nonlinear but that ultimate friction should remain unaffected.

 

According to my MINI service guru, the new oil has an additive in it. The noise could be eliminated by the simple addition of a third party additive, but MINI insists that the original lubricant be completely drained, and the newer stuff (with the additive) be used.

My guy says it's a bit of a money grab, because the dealer has to buy a full 5 gallons of the lubricant at a time!

=R=

 

That's interesting. My car has just over 1,200 miles & she's still quiet. I'll be listening for any changes & following this thread.

Chuck

 

I have an S with LSD and the only noise I've noticed seem like the normal effects of power sterring near full lock.

 

Is there any risk of damage from the old type of lubricant, or is this simply a noise issue?

 

Apparently it's just noise, as MINI hasn't mandated a change to all cars - only when a customer comments or complains.

I wouldn't sweat it, but it sure is something to think about.

=R=

 

I have the LSD so so low speeds and turning tightly don't happen thus preventing groan. Just go faster!

 

Technical Service Bulletin to change oil is finally here!!! Issued in March 2, 2006...don't be surprised though if your SA doesn't know it yet. I found it by following a trail of posts from here to MINI2 forum. TSB# is SE M 23 01 06. I have sent an email to my SA and will wait for reply. The TSB describes changing the transmission fluid with Texaco MTF94 (P/N 83 22 403 247). It also says it is "Covered under the terms of the MINI New Vehicle Limited Warranty". Can't wait to get this done! Sorry but I don't know how to post the bulletin here. For those who don't know, this is to address the "groaning/grinding" sound of the LSD.

 

Update, 3,250 smiles, still groaning. If anything it is quieter than 1,000 miles ago but it is definitely still there.

Maybe the next time I am in for service I'll have them change the oil in the diff.

Just hope that it does not decrease the effectivness of the LSD, that would really tick me off.