Thanks for the info kyriian, I don't believe the Elise is comparable in price though! I think the MCS has the best overall package and I know my MCS isn't the best performer/handler but I was curious to know how it compared to others.

 

The Elise is a sensational track car, but costs more than double in comparison to a bone stock MCS!. Lotus dealers are putting heavy markups on Elises and you'll be hard pressed to find one in stock. This $40K car is retailing at least $10K over stocker.

To me the Elise, in despite of its handling dynamics and engineering goodness, a grossly overpriced car. It is the toy of choice for rich kids.

The Elise is a terrible daily conmuter car. This is an area (among many others) were the MINI clearly outshines it. The Elise and MINI are 2 different beasts in vastly different market segments, but they still overlap in some important traits in terms of fun and handling and cool factor.

The MINI still is the bargain of the decade and as close you will ever get to a fun, tight handling, well engineered pseudo exotic/luxury small car with a beer budget.

 

Ah man, it's time we hook up!!! I remember the day the VERY same words came out of JCampos' mouth, needless to say he got a good taste of what the MINI can do that same day.

I feel ya though on wanting to find out about how we stack up. I'm yet to be left behind in the twisties by anything. I love cars, MINIs mostly, they are my thing, I would never mind anything joining us and acting as rabbit. I'm actually waiting for the day.:smile:

Now I have to mention leaving a Cooper driver behind in my wife's Geo Metro Conv. yesterday. She was tailing me while Granny in a A4 in front of us was lagging, but once she cleared we left her.

 

Well I don't get much motoring time unless I'm driving the Mini to work. During the weekends if the Mini is being driven, my wife and/or kids are with me and I can't really push the Mini when they are with me. I should be out on Calaveras Friday afternoon though!

 

Ok I thought I would put a spin on my last variables with a new variable that will probably shorten the list a bit. Edits are in bold type.

Variable 1:
Considering only stock 4 cylinder CONVERTIBLES that are COMPARABLE in price, what outperforms a MCSC in either straight line or twisty roads or both?

Variable 2:
Considering only stock 4 cylinder CONVERTIBLES that are COMPARABLE in price, what outperforms a modified MCSC (i.e. my MCSC see below for mods) in either straight line or twisty roads or both?

 

price wise though look at the cars that out do a mini... you're up there in price... that's what I like about the mini that it'll cost me 23 to get what I want... still want an Elise when I'm done with law school though

 

Now that you throw that in there. The new Miata and the current MazdaSpeed Miata will beat the MCSC.

Also the new Kappa platorm roadsters from GM will probably beat the MCSC. Those are the Sky and Solstice.

The MR2 might beat the MCS but it doubt in a straight line. That one is really a toss up as i don't know much about the MR2 other than it being underpowered.

YOu have to remember that the MCSC's not the fastest Cooper. Its built more for style and fun than go fast. Its also a bit heavier than the MCS hardtop correct?

Can't think of other 4 cyl convertibles, not much of them out there.

 

I get so easily caught up in the bigger, better, faster, richer sexier wars.

So just stop it . I went 7 years driving a cheap car and was happy. The MINI was "THE" car that made me want to spend my money . After falling in love I tried to Break up. I figured I could afford up to a boxster S and looked at cars in that price or below but none of them did "it" I just could not break my obsession. And every couple of days I pull up to a faster WRX at a light and we look at each others ride...probably each thinking that is a nice car but mine is cooler or faster and as we pull away to get 100yards to the next light we probably both realize we could of done this in a $9000 KIA.

BTW I think you should add the KIA sephia to the straight line and twisty list.:smile: Because if that is what you are trapped behind thats the fastest car

 

Hear ya on the wife and kid, bring em, we're not going THAT fast.

If you scare em, your doing something wrong that's all.

 

My wife and I have a Mazdaspeed Miata and an '05 MCS. They are VERY comparable, with plusses and minuses for each. I sold a Caterham Super Seven (1250#, 170 HP) that I'd had for ten years to buy an Elise and had one on order but decided it was too impractical and bought the MINI for a daily driver. I LOVE it and don't regret the decision.

Want to find out what cars will beat the MINI? Look at the SCCA classes and what ever cars are classed in SS through FS will beat a MINI.

There is more to the MINI than just the specs. With light weight wheels and non-runflat tires it's a joy to drive. I've had many friends who bought WRXs and sold them because they weren't a joy to drive. The Miata IS, by the way, but accomodates a narrower range of body types.

 

For a good, albeit incomplete, reference on handling—check out the Road & Track slalom summary...

http://www.minisoforlando.org/slalomsummary.html

 

Just in case you didnt know this is the Ford GT:



Yes, the MCS tied it in slalom speed (69.5mph).....and yes, it does cost $150,000

Some other cars the MCS beat:

Honda S2000 $32,600 69.3


Lancer Evo VII $28,987 68.9


Porsche 911 GT3 $99,900 68.7


Dodge Viper SRT-10 $79,995 68.6


Lamborghini Gallardo $165,900 68.6


So....yeah....it does alright in the handling department. The next closest 4 cylinder was the S2000, then the Evo, then STi w/ a 68.4.

"The MINI Cooper (67.6 mph) beats every tested Acura; BMW 3-, 5-, 6-, and 7-series, Cadillac, Infinity, Jaguar, Maserati, Mercedes-Benz, and Nissan."

 

Sorry to say but there are alot of cars missing off that list. What year was it compiled? Because i remember the SVT focus pulling about a 69mph on the slalom and for some reason alot of the other sport compacts aren't on there. SRT-4 should be on there i think it pulled a 67 in the slalom.

It would also be nice to have skidpad numbers.

 

Yeah, it's an incompete list; but it does indicate the company we keep.

I don't know when it was compiled; I've had it bookmarked for a year or so.

 

No, definitely. Some of the modern sport compacts can definitely hang with some of the best sports cars these days, its mainly HP and weight distrubution that screws the pooch.

The only thing is that we're trying to compare it to other 4 cyl cars and their no well represented on that list. I don't understand why its so hard to find testing numbers... especially when they're listed on the back of every issue of Motor Trend and Road & Track. You think they would have an awesome list post on the net somewhere.....

 

Ok i forgot i had a current MotorTrend just sitting in my back (mmmm new shelby cobra on the cover). Here is my list off the top of my head:

Here is what i could get out of the MotorTrend testing"

05' Lotus Elise "Touring" 0-60(5.1sec) 1/4mi.(13.5sec) Slalom(73.2mph!!!)
05' Mitsu Evo MR 0-60 (4.7sec) 1/4mi.(13.4sec) Slalom(70.1)
05' Subaru STI 0-60 (4.7sec) 1/4mi.(13.3sec) Slalom(69.7)
04' Mazdaspeed Miata 0-60 (6.2sec) 1/4mi.(14.6sec) Slalom(67.7mph)

05' "Chevy Cobalt SS"/Saturn Ion 0-60(6.0sec) 1/4mi.(14.5sec) Slalom(69.0mph)
04' Dodge Neon SRT-4 0-60(5.5sec) 1/4mi.(14.0sec) Slalom(68.3mph)
Saturn Sky/Solstice (No data)
Subaru WRX (No Data)
05' MINI Cooper S 0-60(6.4sec) 1/4mi.(14.8sec) Slalom(66.5mph)
Acura RSX-S (No Data)
Honda Civic Si (No Data)
Ford Focus ST 0-60(7.7sec) 1/4mi.(15.8sec) Slalom (65.7mph)

I don't have time to put them in any kind of order depending on 0-60, and slalom speed. They also had a figure 8 test they do(i guess no more skidpad for them) that if you guys want i'll also post. The figure eight is timed on how fast the car can get around and what the max G was around the course.

 

When I ask myself which of these cars would I like to own only the Elise pops into my head and I do wonder about the Mazda.......the rest..forgetaboutit!

 

The MCS has slowed in the slalom, must be the softer suspension.

 

I agree with you about the list of cars. I wouldn't mind driving a Subie or Mitsu or RS-X but I don't think I would want to own one. The Miata looks great but it's too small for me. I like the Elise, but for the price I would probably get something else.

 

:::bump:::

Any more opinions/comments?

The other day a Celica GTS was revving up on me. I don't know what was under the hood but he had an aftrmarket exhaust. I didn't do anything because 1) I'm not willing to street race as much as I used to and 2) My wife was with me.

In a road race I think my Mini would more than likely come out on top...On a straight road I'm not so sure, especially since I don't know what his mods are!

 

Celica's are VERY good handling cars. Due to classing though the GT's are the ones that pretty much dominate their class.

 

A lot of people struggle with getting an EVO and an MCS w/JCW. I still feel the MCS is a better daily driver than the EVO. The supercharger has a big effect on the driveability whereas turbo cars are always tougher to drive because of the lag and need for boost. I have attached a clip from TopGear showing the problems with the EVO's turbolag. This is on an FQ400, which is much more powerful than the current EVO VIII here in the States, but it is interesting.

http://www.szweda.com/files/video/evo.wmv

 

Thats a great video. It really shows the ups, and some of the downs of the EVO

 

One of my coworkers just bought a 05 Evo VIII and he says it has sufficient low end torque without getting into boost. I tend to believe what he says because he used to have a 11 sec FD that he modded himself. He says the turning radius sucks but it's a very mod friendly car. He might use a apexi or another ecu(can't remember the name) to tune it along with usually downpipe and cat back systesm. He picked his up for 1k under invoice, 28k plus fees. That's without the option package so he doesn't have a boost gauge, hid, etc. He says it's a really a street legal race car. I'll ride with him after he breaks it in.

 

You can say that again... I drive by a Lotus dealer every day... right now they have 3 Elise's in the showroom... along with an early Corvette and hat I think is an old Aston Martin... along with a couple of S2000's in the front lot... (sigh.... )