replace stock water pump with electric for added hp?
 

so, i had a thought a while ago, as i am always thinking of ways to increase HP and mod the mini.

would there be any benefit to removing the stock mechanical water pump from the stock supercharger, and replace the pump with one of the electric ones that comes with say, they sprintrex supercharger? in theory, you would be removing that much more mechanical draw / resistance from the stock SC, and giving the engine a bit less stuff to move around. just let electricity power the water pump instead of the engine.

questions: would the stock SC still hold pressure / oil with just the water pump removed? what is the price of an electric water pump? can you purchase just an electric pump? lastly, since they electric ones have been known to fail, could you rig a sensor / warning light if it did fail, or use 2 of them in tandem, or plumb one up in tandem with a relay of sorts, so that you would have a built in backup pump?

thoughts! comments?

i have info on it. but im in ny city, and very far from my pc. when i get home tomorrow night.

Popcorn.


I've had all the same questions.

so here is the water pump the sprintex kit comes with. (Davies-Craig EWP-80)

http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Electr...s-content.aspx

find a dealer that sells it and hook it up. i may winde up doing the same thing. same question i had a while back. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ater-pump.html

and and instruction guide how to set it up.

http://www.sprintex.com.au/sprintex/manuals/

Thanks for the info Gabe. I hit a dead end last time I searched for this topic. I've been looking for this.

::thumbsup

My water pump is toast in my 2005 MCS. So I am looking at this option. It does look like a fairly cut and dry installation.

I do have a question on the SC. Do we just clean out the metal mess out of the PTO and slap on a block off plate reinstall the SC and call it a day or are there other things we need to do first to the SC? What about a rebuild kit?

And who has already completed this conversion on their MCS?

Electric Pump
 

6 or 8 years ago, a vender had a complete kit to convert to electric. Pump, blockoff plate, hose, fittings etc. I'll see if I have any info if you like. I as recall, the price was around $895.

Firenewt... Ive already got the water pump part number and priced out as a kit from 206 to 244usd. I was just curious if anyone, or how many people have completed the water pump part and if they liked the results so we could get some real world feedback. Im talking to a fellow right now that has a kit so I if things work out between he and I on price then I will be doing this soon and of course I will do a write up with photo's for everyone as I am certain it would be appreciated. :thumbsup:

I have the Sprintex kit installed on my 04. The water pump was very simple. Hardest part was getting the tools in there to tighten it in place. Effects are great, constant running coolant circulation and remove some parasitic weight on rotational mass on the crank as well as some added relief on the stock sc if youre going that route. Should be a win-win. The eletric water pump is rated for 3000hours without a controller. Which is probably longer than a mechanical one would last anyways and is 60$ cheaper. You make the decisions yourself but I think it sold itself when it became an available option.

fr0mmagna- are you using the controller that is also used for their fans? Did it change the engine bay noise/sound? The mini's performance noticeable?

I'm going to inspect the SC while I have it removed from the engine. Then make a decision if it needs a rebuild or not. Where can I buy a quality rebuild kit?

I am not using a controller. The WP runs at full speed and continues 4 minutes after power is removed. Its a massive difference because I have the SPRINTEX SC KIT installed. Stock SC was hosed so instead of a rebuild I went after market. Seems more reliable as oil is easier to change with 30k intervals, same as belt and sparks.. easy routine. Every 4th oil change.

After inspecting my SC, if things look ok I might do a bit of maintenance on it and some mods for oil and call it a day.

fr0mmagna- How did you do the mod where the WP continues to run after the engines been shut off? That'd be sweet to help cool things down.

The W/P connection for the Sprintex is wired that way, just a simple relay with the switched/on power coming from a source in the main fuse box that has power whenever the ECU is on. (your ECU is powered for an additional 5 min. after the ignition is off)

+1
If it wasn't wired this way, I would have looked into putting a small capacitor in to make it do the sane thing without using my car battery tho. Lol. Its just a good idea! Like turbo timers...

I may be wrong...
But if the engine is what supplies the electricity to the vehicle. Then adding an electric water pump will increase the amount of amps needed, which means more load on your alternator meaning more drag the alternator will have on your engine. I'm sure any hp gains by swapping to an electric pump will be almost nonexistent.

A benefit the electric pump would have over the mechanical is that it could run at high speeds even at idle.

Depends on the load required for the pump, yes it can be true. But even if the difference isn't major, if the electrical pump is reliable, you remove a possible failure point. Which is the gears turning canibals and eating each others due to the lack of oil from a failed seal.

Well I bought the EWP-80 Electric Water Pump kit for 190 shipped. The mini is going down for major work anyway because I have a shelf full of parts and mods needing to be installed as well as new tires.

I have an electric water pump on the race MINI. the main reason was to stop cavitation while running 8k rpm. also, most "SC failures" are actually PTO failures on the water pump side. I don't know if it is worth the effort on a typical street-driven MINI. Certainly, not to gain HP. insignificant.

That interests me. I'd hate to spend $1k and a considerable amount if my time to replace a still working SC, when it's only the PTO-water pump drive that's failed.

Just past 80k, no problems with original yet, but I hear an occasional noise from that area, which lasts for several seconds upon restarting a warm engine -like when I come out of the grocery store.

At whoever posted right above this, please let us know how install goes.

I stand by my previous statement. the SC isn't the weak link. the install of the electric pump and plumbing on my car was done by other. it works, but it isn't an intuitive solution. i'll post pics if there is interest.

it can also run at a consistent speed at high revs. hence no cavitation.

The amperage on a ewp would be fairly low since it has a steady flow once it gets the coolant running. I notice the radiator fan rarely comes on when in traffic now unless its over 90ish degrees. With stock wp it would come on at idle at 40 degrees.

I don't have a low speed fan, bypass is done so its noticible when the fan kicks.

I run torque when having fun driving but for the daily stuff I rarely turn it on. But all works great and temp is very steady without the fan.

I cant wait to get the front broken down and the SC off and everything modded. Then I have to do the rear items I havent installed yet. A four wheel alignment.

Looks much cheaper than what I'm finding.

Where did you get it?

Try this guy http://www.ebay.com/itm/Davies-Craig-8005-EWP80-Remote-Electric-Water-Pump-Kit-80-liters-per-minute-/330877788683?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d09da620b. I made an offer of 160 and he came back with an offer of 190 shipped. Accept it. There was another for less money but it had stuff missing from it. It might still be on ebay.

Raven, please document thoroughly the install!
Also, you planning on just using a relay when the car is on, or you going to relay it to the thermostat?

Fwiw, if you didn't want it to run for 5 mins after the car is off, you can run a wire from the 12v socket into the engine bay to trip the relay, and get your main power from the big wire in the engine bay itself. This way, the pump turns on and off with the car, vs staying on for minutes afterwards, possibly draining the battery.

Id like for it to run five min after the car is off.

These cost only a little more than eBay. The one at HRP (below) is actually a little cheaper than ordering from Davies Craig direct in Australia.

I thought I would share Davies Craig's -Official USA Distributors:

Hoerr Racing Products: http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...action=product

and

3P Connect USA: http://www.3pwarehouse.com/category-s/1820.htm

I have not looked into this a ton yet, but for those that have swapped out to the electric pump, did you have to change the size of belt your are running? Maybe I am missing something, but it seems with no pulley for the water pump the belt size would be smaller.

Enlighten me!

no change in belt size needed. the w/p is connected to the supercharger, so the belt drives the SC and the SC drives the w/p... extremely stupid design.

I recently looked up PTO that everyone keeps referring to.

If I understand correctly, it has the same meaning as Power Take Off, for example an output shaft on the motor of a tractor may be used to drive/power an implement such as tiller blades or a conveyor belt on a hay bayler.

The back side (opposite the pulley side) of the SC on an R53 has such an output which powers the water pump.

Yes, there's a gear sticking out from the s/c that drives the gear of the water pump. When the s/c seal for that shaft fails, it suck the oil inside and both gears start eating each others.

This guy goes over the PTO and shows you what happens to the gears when they cannibalize themselves.

Exactly, and just as a reference for the newer modders/owners, 99% of the time you hear something said about an "S/C" failure, this is the problem, the S/C internals themselves are pretty stout.

I've been running one for a while in preparation for removing the supercharger for the turbo...

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...9/IMAG0061.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...9/IMAG0062.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...9/IMAG0060.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...9/IMG_7061.jpg

I also run the EWP controller for it.

Well my kit just showed up at the UPS HUB but they arent going to deliver it till monday. So Im going to see if I can pick it up today and being the installation.

Turbo R53... Thanks for the photos and info.... do you have the turbo in yet?
How do you like the water pump and what differences have you notices so far between the oem and the electric?

Hopefully you have access to a machine shop or know someone that does. That hose nipple on the low pressure side and the hose adapter to the block are both custom made by me.

Turbo is not in yet, still gathering/planning etc.

I don't really notice any difference in the two. I was having an issue with the temp settings on the controller at first using it without a thermostat, but I think that was because I had a faulty expansion tank cap that wouldn't hold pressure and just p-i-s-s coolant out...so the pump would just empty the tank.
I am going to try without a thermostat again soon to see if I can control it a little better.

Can you provide some information on "the hose nipple on the low pressure side and the hose adapter to the block" that you had made?

Are there other parts that will need to be purchased that do not come in the kit?

Thanks for any additional install advice you can provide.

The hose nipple that I have on the low pressure(inlet) side is to do the job of the one that is on the stock pump.
My part is basically a 1.5" piece of aluminum pipe with a piece of 5/8" tube welded to the side of it. I have it connected to the stock metal heater pipe that runs underneath the thermostat housing.

The hose adapter to the block was fabbed using the stock water pump flange, I just machined a piece of aluminum pipe to fit inside it and it was welded by a very good friend.
The hoses I used are from NAPA. The heater hose is #9812...I can't find my invoice for the pump to block hose right now. I have another good friend that runs the NAPA store, he let me just peruse the radiator hoses until I found one that would work.

Turbo R53- So you actually mounted you pump away from the traditional WP location up by the SC? Oh and did you have any issues priming the new pump or bleeding air from the system after the new pump was installed?

Everyone- The PTO gears on my SC look awesome. I see no wear and there was plenty of oil. The water pump wasn't to bad. It was dripping a tad but Im certain it might have been something else as well. Anyway this gave me an excuse to install the EWP-80 and now I am also going to remove the thermostat as recommended in the instructions. I'm going to be checking to see if it also failed which is possible being the engine overheated. Two other items on the list are the resistor for the low fan and the expansion bottle and cap.