>>MINI's are NOT for the faint of heart. I suggest a visit to your local Honda dealer. Them cars sure are nice........also Chrysler has pretty cute ones these days......

I have a Honda and it is nice. And it has lots of trouble and has been back to the dealer multiple multiple times to fix the same nagging problems over and over. Not anything too dangerous except now I have a throttle lag and surge that isn't very nice but I think I will try to fix it on my own since the Honda shop foreman and mechanic cannot reproduce the problem than my wife detects everyday she drives the car. I don't consider it a lemon, just a normal Honda with flaws and fixes that don't fix the problem for very long.

My car before my MCS was a Dodge (similar to Chrysler) caravan that had way more trouble but I repaired it for 12 years over and over but it was a good van by comparison to other Caravans and voyagers.

If I had to compare my MCS I would say it has been reliable but did suffer a malfunctioned PVC valve, rear boot hatch lock, and right xenon light which are all replaced now and working. Only the light was a pain to fix.

The point is that it always looks greener on the other side of the fence. No matter what you get there is always trouble lurking around the corner. At least on NAM we can share our troubles and solutions. To me that is very helpful.

 

I think you guys are right....I've just let the tales of woe that I've heard freak me out.

There really isn't any other car in the same class as the MCS....so I'm sort of stuck. I've test driven the car. Maybe I need to test drive it a few more times to convince me that, no matter what, it's worth the trouble.

Niggling problems don't scare me. A little rattling or even the windshield thing don't really scare me...it's stuff like the stumble and yo-yo that freak me out.

If you're wondering about the change of heart, I drove an hour and a half to the nearest dealer to test drive an Element again. There's just no contest! The car is not nearly as fun to drive as the MINI! I'm stuck! No other car just screams 'Drive me!' like the MCS (at least not for the price). Mechanics and general car people around here (even the ones who prefer domestics to imports) tell me that I'm being irrationally afraid and that, judging by service records, there is no such thing as a trouble-free car.

 

>>Hmm... Maybe you should avoid owning a car. For one, Honda dealers are
notorious for being ***holes. NO car is perfect. Period. They will have faults. My g/f (JerseyGirl)'s '03 MCS has been more or less trouble free since she bought it in August. The only annoyance has been the upper windshield strip constantly coming loose, which seems to be a fluke with her car and not a common problem. Still, it's purely cosmetic and does not affect performance in any way.

Conversely, I have an '03 Jetta TDI Wagon with 22k miles and the only problem so far was a wiper arm that rubbed the windshield - which I fixed myself. The closest it's been to the dealer has been to buy oil filters. And Jettas have some of the worst reliability ratings of any car sold today. You just never know. German cars typically have finicky electrical systems, so I made a point to avoid as many gadgets as I could.

Some people have better experiences with dealers than others. But of course, you never hear about that. As the saying goes: A happy customer tells a friend, an unhappy customer tells the world. Dealerships are operated by people and people are not perfect.

 

Don't let us freak you out about the MINI. Our experiences have been a matter of the luck of the draw. Unfortunately, some of us have gotten the short end of the stick and have been stuck with problematic cars. It is my sincere wish that your MINI is one free of problems. HOWEVER, if there are problems, here is the link to the Michigan Lemon Law. http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0%2C1607%...86--%2C00.html

Good Luck!

 

Good to hear your coming back to thinking nice thoughts about owning a MINI

 

>>If you're wondering about the change of heart, I drove an hour and a half to the nearest dealer to test drive an Element again. There's just no contest! The car is not nearly as fun to drive as the MINI! I'm stuck! No other car just screams 'Drive me!' like the MCS (at least not for the price). Mechanics and general car people around here (even the ones who prefer domestics to imports) tell me that I'm being irrationally afraid and that, judging by service records, there is no such thing as a trouble-free car.<<

That's exactly how I feel - STUCK. I test drove a few other cars, and even went so far as to put a reserve on one and post a few ads to sell my MINI. Then I slept on it, and realized that for better or worse, I just can't bring myself to sell this car before I absolutely have to (meaning 49k miles unless my transmission dies before then and is replaced by the new Getrag). The thought of driving around in a Toyota every day now turns my stomach. The MINI, day to day, is far and away the most fun car on the road, period. All else being equal, I wouldn't trade it for any other car. Problem is, I am also responsible with my money and prefer not to take $3000 risks if I don't have to. A $3000 risk is exactly what my MINI will be as soon as the odo clicks over to 50k, because MINI refuses to admit that their 5-speed trannies are defective. Until 50k, I feel trapped in this car because it's so much fun.

Am I "incessantly whining" if I post about my dilemma in, say, five different threads over the course of three months? Should I hold my tongue when a prospective new buyer is looking for all sides of the story? Hell no. Nick_T, wake up and realize that for some of us, $20k is a major financial decision, and we expect that to translate into a fair deal when it comes to warranty work and standing behind the product. I don't care how small the purported margin is on this car; that's ABSOLUTELY not an excuse for the dealer network to be treating owners the way they are. For you to suggest so is preposterous and offensive.

_________________
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." -Oscar Wilde

 

>>I think you guys are right....I've just let the tales of woe that I've heard freak me out.
>>
>>There really isn't any other car in the same class as the MCS....so I'm sort of stuck. I've test driven the car. Maybe I need to test drive it a few more times to convince me that, no matter what, it's worth the trouble.
>>
>>Niggling problems don't scare me. A little rattling or even the windshield thing don't really scare me...it's stuff like the stumble and yo-yo that freak me out.
>>
>>If you're wondering about the change of heart, I drove an hour and a half to the nearest dealer to test drive an Element again. There's just no contest! The car is not nearly as fun to drive as the MINI! I'm stuck! No other car just screams 'Drive me!' like the MCS (at least not for the price). Mechanics and general car people around here (even the ones who prefer domestics to imports) tell me that I'm being irrationally afraid and that, judging by service records, there is no such thing as a trouble-free car.



I am very glad to hear that you are coming back to your senses. Nothing drives like a MINI for the money as you just found out yesterday while testing the Honda Element.

You'll enjoy this car, period!


So now tells us what you have in mind for your MCS...what would you like to see on it as far as factory options/colors is concerned??


We are here to help!

 

2002 CVT Cooper
26,500 miles

Only been to the dealer for oil services...and I have to take it back for fog light replacement....there is condensation in there.

My dealer is hooking me up with a CVT MINI loaner while they have my car. They have been nothing but 100% pleasant whenever I come in for service.

 

>>2002 CVT Cooper
>>26,500 miles
>>
>>Only been to the dealer for oil services...and I have to take it back for fog light replacement....there is condensation in there.
>>
>>My dealer is hooking me up with a CVT MINI loaner while they have my car. They have been nothing but 100% pleasant whenever I come in for service.


L.MINI, don't forget to post about your positve experience in the "Happy MINI owners" thread.

 

MINI is doing nothing to deal with quality problems like the crappy windshields and fragile 5-speed transmissions.

According to another site MotoringFile, MINI is putting a five speed Getrag gearbox into the MC starting 05

Page Title

 

Any1 else notice how far this thread has come since inception?

Wow huh?

Ok to my point, & my 2 cents, come May 1st I will take possession of my new MCS. I get to drive this car 1700 miles to get home, So if any1 thinks the thought of my being stuck along side the road (with wife) hasn’t crossed my mind, think twice. Just after ordering the thought of this yo-yo crap very much concerned me to the point of losing my sanity. Along with almost taking the loss of my deposit, just to pass on the potential problems. My thinking, just buy another Honda Accord; we’ve had the best experience with this car. Problem free. My Chevy truck, year 1999 Problem free, My Porsche 911 Cab, Problem free. Ya, “a Porsche” problem free imagine that. Now I am to buy this mini and lately all I hear is mini owners unhappy with their dealer & manufactures disappointments. Not living up to their expectations. Errrr ahhh, maybe **** retentive is a good word of choice right now?

I will be picking up my MCS May1st, any questions?

If the cars a pain in the azz, C’yaaaa! & I don’t have money to throw away, & yes I am very dollar conscious. I’ve done enough research to want the car, so if I’m wrong, that’s life. Another way of saying this, Say you need an attorney, Truly no matter how much you research his/her accomplishments you really don’t know what you got till the case is over. That’s life…

MCS Chili Red Solid, YEP I said Solid RED, Yes it will be a full mini experience!

 

>>>>
>>But how are the dealers? How is Honda USA as far as acknowledging problems? The contention is not that Hondas are perfect, but that they back up their products.
>>
>>Chet.

i can answer this question -- i had a 95 honda prelude and i loved that car -- took it for all regular services and then all of the sudden it would die -- while driving -- the engine would just shut off (while i would be doing 75 mph down a highway) and therefore the steering would lock --

the dealers -- all 5 that i went too -- could care less -- they couldnt fix it, they wouldnt call HondaUSA to see if anyone else was reporting this and when i contacted them, they basically told me "oh well - we sell enough cars that we do not worry about it" so i traded it in for the car i have now (which i love but is not a MC) --yet i want a MINI because i just love them --
and reading this board is me doing my research -- :smile:

so you will get crap anywhere you go...its all in how deal with it --

 

>>MINI's are NOT for the faint of heart. I suggest a visit to your local Honda dealer. Them cars sure are nice........also Chrysler has pretty cute ones these days......

<chuckle!> OK, but if I decide to pick up an Accord or one of those Pacifica's, I am allowed to go with British Racing Green color scheme right?

I'll take NAM "warts and all" any time! Thankfully,
TAtt

 

I’m sorry that my post offended you. You need to realize that there is more than one way to speak about a problem. Many of the whiners sound like six year olds coming home from school saying, “Mommy the teacher doesn’t like me. She always picks on me. She isn’t fair. I hate her!” More mature owners just relate the facts of the situation, and may add how it made them feel.

My ‘04 MCS broke down on the way home from the dealer and had to be flat-bedded back. It was in their shop over the weekend and for two weekdays. Did I post about it? Yes (probably on Roadfly & MINI2), and I probably said something about my disappointment. Did I feel that the dealer hadn’t done the proper pre-sale inspection or that factory quality control was sub-standard? No, I just felt that it was bad luck. Was I angry that they didn’t call in a mechanic to fix the problem over the weekend? No, I was happy that they stayed open after closing hours to accept my broken car and give me a loaner.

It’s been posted that MINI started using an improved windshield midway through the ‘04 model year, and as you yourself say, it appears that they will be using an improved gearbox in the ‘05 models. What more could you reasonably want?

We said my friend!

 

Quote:

It’s been posted that MINI started using an improved windshield midway through the ‘04 model year, and as you yourself say, it appears that they will be using an improved gearbox in the ‘05 models. What more could you reasonably want?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nick_T,

You do sound like a reasonable individual. Having said that I don't think it would be too much to ask for Mini to acknowledge that they had a problem with the windscreens and do the right thing by the people they have gipped on this issue.

It's already been said Mini have changed the windscreens to an improved product - don't you think that in itself says the original ones were not adequate? That's not a real big leap in logic.

Sure if a windscreen breaks cause a cricket ball hit it, that's obvious - but the grain of sand pen test is rediculous, and those "customers" without doubt should be compensated for this manufacturing defect. As should those aflicted with bad software.

There is no excuse other than shoddy service and a corporate policy of not really giving a toss about the "customers" over bottom line.

 

>>Jim, the problem is directly caused by a bad dealer. This statement from Karen's email will reveal it to you. "For this reason, we back the MINI dealer's professional and expert diagnosis in this matter"
>>
>>Now follow that statement back up that thread, and see where the problem originated. I'll give you a clue...By the dealer trying to charge the MINI owner for the repair saying it's not a warranty issue.

*conspiracy theorist hat on*

As a former dealer tech, I would also add that COD work is typically billed out at 1.5-2 times the labor hours that a manufacturer's warranty guide allows a dealer service department to bill the manufacturer for the same repair. Auto makers view warranty repairs as a cost center, and cut warranty times to the bone to try to contain those costs. Most dealer techs hate doing warranty work for this reason, and have a strong incentive to classify a problem as "non-warranty" whenever possible. The tech would rather be "making money" by "beating the book" doing easy work like brake jobs and the like. To the parties involved in the decision at the dealership, it's a matter simple economics. Also, the "PITA (pain in the ***) factor" come into play in the decision as the complexity of the job increases.

So for the clutch replacement example, things might figure in the tech's mind like this (supposing for discussion that warranty labor allowance for replacing the clutch is 5 hours- I have no access to BMW's labor guide, so it might be much more, or it might be less):

"I had the bad luck to draw this ticket. This car is going to be on my lift for at least one full day- maybe 2 days. BMW will only pay me (5 hours?) to do it. I would normally turn 10 hours or better in COD work if I wasn't doing this job. Under warranty, this job is costing me (5 hours) pay. If this was a COD job, at least I'd get (7.5) for it. Lemme take a closer look to see if I can attribute the problem to all that aftermarket crap on the car, and maybe cut my losses. And while I'm at it, I'd better add time to the estimate for pulling any of that stuff that's in the way..."

I don't know what BMW's policy on R&I of add-on accessories for warranty repair access is, but GM would pay dealers for it. However, it was a huge PITA for the service writer to draw up the documentation for the claim, so they sometimes would try to foist billing for R&I of accessories off on the customer...

 

Is it true that a MINI service advisor doesn't make as much money as say a BMW advisor?

 

Chet-

buy your MINI from Classic and don't modify it with anything other than approved MINI parts and you should be golden.

I have an 04 MCS that has no YO-YO no stumble no windshield cracks or chips no nothin.

I am very happy I did not let the problems discussed here scare me away from the car I wanted.

 

indygomini - -
Thanks for a view from the tech’s perspective!

 

>>indygomini - -
>>Thanks for a view from the tech’s perspective!

*the topicality drift continues...* I never did turn the hours my co-workers did, but the service manager didn't complain. Once he pointed out the the service writers that having me around to handle this stuff allowed the other techs on the team to roll faster, they decided I might be worth the bay I occupied after all.

_________________
Midnight- '03 indi blue MCS, learning all the bad habits of a proper British car from Rusty- '75 MGB

 

>>>>>>>>
>>>>But how are the dealers? How is Honda USA as far as acknowledging problems? The contention is not that Hondas are perfect, but that they back up their products.
>>>>
>>>>Chet.
>>
>>i can answer this question -- i had a 95 honda prelude and i loved that car -- took it for all regular services and then all of the sudden it would die -- while driving -- the engine would just shut off (while i would be doing 75 mph down a highway) and therefore the steering would lock --
>>
>>the dealers -- all 5 that i went too -- could care less -- they couldnt fix it, they wouldnt call HondaUSA to see if anyone else was reporting this and when i contacted them, they basically told me "oh well - we sell enough cars that we do not worry about it" so i traded it in for the car i have now (which i love but is not a MC) --yet i want a MINI because i just love them --
>>and reading this board is me doing my research -- :smile:
>>
>>so you will get crap anywhere you go...its all in how deal with it --
>>

i had the opposite experience. my 92 prelude had a ever so slight creaking noise in the passenger side front fender area when going over smooth undulations. once i was able to reproduce the noise during a drive w/a honda tech, they started work on the vehicle and ended up keeping it about 1week.

i visited a few times and they had the vehicle stripped down to the bone in the area where the noise was coming from. well after a week, they finally found that the sheetmetal in the fender area was rubbing together and they fixed it.

the cost? about $1200 of labor all covered under warranty and the service was done w/o any disrepect or attitude. they were just focused on getting the problem solved.

the only other warranty work done on the prelude were speaker replacements. i probably had 2-3 speakers replaced because i kept blowing them out. don't know why honda used cheap paper cone speakers, but they replaced them w/o any fuss. i eventually replaced them with much better aftermarket pioneers.

bottomline, all this was done back on 92, 93 so i can't say if their service has deteriorated since.

 

I drive an mcs, in 11 months I've put 18,000 miles on my car. It's been to the dealer for the 10,000 mile service, for a xenon that wouldn't work properly and for a software upgrade to get rid of the stumble. I had a 15% reduction pulley installed at 3,000 miles by helix and I installed an alta intake myself. As of today I love my car and the dealer (Habberstad mini) has turned out to have a great service department. Got loaners everytime my car was in for service and work has been performed to my satisfaction. That said, this car has gone for service more than any of my previous vehicles.

I own a bicycle store and see a lot of my customers coming in for roof racks for the honda element. I know of a few having had cracked windshields, one guy with electrical problems and another guy with a reocurring fuel leaking problem. I also know that they are all very happy with their vehicles.

We have a subaru outback with 30,000 miles, it's been to the dealer a lot more than my mini and has had 2 broken windshields. Its a very good vehicle even with its share of problems.

Don't buy a mini if you can't handle a quirky car, good luck finding a perfect car and honest dealer.

Thanks northamericanmotoring for your existance and for all the good and bad information that gets passed along here.

I'm a very satisfied mini owner, look forward to getting in my mcs to drive it all the time. I'll keep this car for as long as it will stay reliable.
The car is almost as much fun as riding my sport motorcycle, the apriliaforum is a much happier environment. Later.

 

I guess you missed my more recent posts.

Yeah...I'm just going to have to bite the bullet on this one. To be realistic, I'm used to used cars (this would be my first new car), and I just got done with the nightmare that was my old car - an '89 Dogde Dynasty. I was given this vehicle to get me through my third nasty bout of college and it almost made it, but it was a maintenance nightmare. I've got three more weeks of college left, after three years....and I've got no car since the Dynasty punched a strut through an axle AND blew a headgasket in the same week.

The MINI will be my reward for three years of nursing school hell, passing the boards, and getting an RN job. After a brush with modern American pseudo-academia, you'd be a little skittish about people who give you the run around too.

Chet.

 

>>>>>>[quote]i had the opposite experience. my 92 prelude had a ever so slight creaking noise in the passenger side front fender area when going over smooth undulations. once i was able to reproduce the noise during a drive w/a honda tech, they started work on the vehicle and ended up keeping it about 1week.
>>
>>i visited a few times and they had the vehicle stripped down to the bone in the area where the noise was coming from. well after a week, they finally found that the sheetmetal in the fender area was rubbing together and they fixed it.
>>
>>the cost? about $1200 of labor all covered under warranty and the service was done w/o any disrepect or attitude. they were just focused on getting the problem solved.
>>
>>the only other warranty work done on the prelude were speaker replacements. i probably had 2-3 speakers replaced because i kept blowing them out. don't know why honda used cheap paper cone speakers, but they replaced them w/o any fuss. i eventually replaced them with much better aftermarket pioneers.
>>
>>bottomline, all this was done back on 92, 93 so i can't say if their service has deteriorated since.


i had all this occur when my car was about 3 years old -- just right before it went out of warrenty...so it was about 1999.... so who knows --
i think it depends on the dealership which is why i wont take a car to a dealership unless its warrenty work --
its a sad thing that you spend so much money on these things and something your the bug and sometimes your the windsheild...

 

I have been lucky i guess.....I owned an original Accord and it ran flawlessly to 90K miles, the fenders started to rust and were replaced under warranty. This on a five year old car in 1982!! Since then my image of Hondas has been they are so dammed reliable they are boring........after that a 320, a 630, a Probe, A Volvo 940, a Vauxhall Frontera, a Vauxhall Cavalier, a Suburban, a Crown Vic, an F-350, , the MINI and an Allroad A6.......not one has giviven me ANY trouble.......yes I did blow out a clutch on the F350.....my fault.....other than that, change oil and tires......air filters once in a while and tranny fluid for the hell of it.......my A4 which I bought used blew a water pump and did some rear hub bearings.....all in all, not a bad experience with any car company. neve have had a defect or a warranty claim.....the Accord one was a lark!! :smile: