R50/53 RMW Jesus head vs Thumper TPR2
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 535
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From: Hickory,NC
It seems like we could solve this once and for all by taking one car and one set of mods and let each side install their own BVH, cam and tune. Run the dyno, post the results and let the consumers decide. Butt dyno's don't produce real data. I'd like to see real data.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,242
Likes: 55
From: Wherever she takes me.
This is all we need
Butt Dyno
$529.95
Just install a great mod like a cold air intake? Electric supercharger? Big Muffler? Magnetic fuel line ionizer? Awesome wing? Are you getting no respect from your friends for your newly found power? As we all know, these are high end and sophisticated modifications. Some may be TOO sophisticated to actually show up on a traditional dyno. So here we have: The Butt Dyno. Simply place it in the seat, and drive fast, weaving in and out of traffic. (On a race course, of course.) Now you can tell your friends with confidence "That oil-saturated air filter gave me 20 horses!"
Butt Dyno
$529.95
Just install a great mod like a cold air intake? Electric supercharger? Big Muffler? Magnetic fuel line ionizer? Awesome wing? Are you getting no respect from your friends for your newly found power? As we all know, these are high end and sophisticated modifications. Some may be TOO sophisticated to actually show up on a traditional dyno. So here we have: The Butt Dyno. Simply place it in the seat, and drive fast, weaving in and out of traffic. (On a race course, of course.) Now you can tell your friends with confidence "That oil-saturated air filter gave me 20 horses!"
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
This is all we need
Butt Dyno
$529.95
Just install a great mod like a cold air intake? Electric supercharger? Big Muffler? Magnetic fuel line ionizer? Awesome wing? Are you getting no respect from your friends for your newly found power? As we all know, these are high end and sophisticated modifications. Some may be TOO sophisticated to actually show up on a traditional dyno. So here we have: The Butt Dyno. Simply place it in the seat, and drive fast, weaving in and out of traffic. (On a race course, of course.) Now you can tell your friends with confidence "That oil-saturated air filter gave me 20 horses!"
Butt Dyno
$529.95
Just install a great mod like a cold air intake? Electric supercharger? Big Muffler? Magnetic fuel line ionizer? Awesome wing? Are you getting no respect from your friends for your newly found power? As we all know, these are high end and sophisticated modifications. Some may be TOO sophisticated to actually show up on a traditional dyno. So here we have: The Butt Dyno. Simply place it in the seat, and drive fast, weaving in and out of traffic. (On a race course, of course.) Now you can tell your friends with confidence "That oil-saturated air filter gave me 20 horses!"
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
From: Hickory,NC
This is all we need
Butt Dyno
$529.95
Just install a great mod like a cold air intake? Electric supercharger? Big Muffler? Magnetic fuel line ionizer? Awesome wing? Are you getting no respect from your friends for your newly found power? As we all know, these are high end and sophisticated modifications. Some may be TOO sophisticated to actually show up on a traditional dyno. So here we have: The Butt Dyno. Simply place it in the seat, and drive fast, weaving in and out of traffic. (On a race course, of course.) Now you can tell your friends with confidence "That oil-saturated air filter gave me 20 horses!"
Butt Dyno
$529.95
Just install a great mod like a cold air intake? Electric supercharger? Big Muffler? Magnetic fuel line ionizer? Awesome wing? Are you getting no respect from your friends for your newly found power? As we all know, these are high end and sophisticated modifications. Some may be TOO sophisticated to actually show up on a traditional dyno. So here we have: The Butt Dyno. Simply place it in the seat, and drive fast, weaving in and out of traffic. (On a race course, of course.) Now you can tell your friends with confidence "That oil-saturated air filter gave me 20 horses!"
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6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 316
From: Arnold, MO.
Just curious, I Really don't know the answer to this, and that this comparison was done more out of convience and because of the differences in cars the accuracy can be questioned from here to sunday, but?
Are the specs on these two heads similar?
Face it, real world for most of us is Wallet, and quite frankly I would hope to see a better result from a product that is $850 to $900 more expensive, a more honest comparison prob. would be a TPR2r and even it's $650 to $700 less.
Hell I have a RMW/BVH & it works, no doubt about it, but unless the spec's on the products are the same, there can't really be a comparison, but again, I don't know the difference in specs.
Just my 2c.
Are the specs on these two heads similar?
Face it, real world for most of us is Wallet, and quite frankly I would hope to see a better result from a product that is $850 to $900 more expensive, a more honest comparison prob. would be a TPR2r and even it's $650 to $700 less.
Hell I have a RMW/BVH & it works, no doubt about it, but unless the spec's on the products are the same, there can't really be a comparison, but again, I don't know the difference in specs.
Just my 2c.
Last edited by BlwnAway; Apr 4, 2013 at 12:08 AM.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 435
Likes: 5
why not, you just said its a good comparison of what you get for the money?
Its like trying determine how much power is worth to you.
You clearly felt like it was worth it and bought the "good stuff" I know i did.
I think my power and reliability speaks for its self.
More data is always good, and if you cant read the data, descriptions and other information and make a good decision that fits for you. Its probably best that people leave the car stock.
Its like trying determine how much power is worth to you.
You clearly felt like it was worth it and bought the "good stuff" I know i did.
I think my power and reliability speaks for its self.
More data is always good, and if you cant read the data, descriptions and other information and make a good decision that fits for you. Its probably best that people leave the car stock.
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 316
From: Arnold, MO.
And that's the point I was hoping to make, face it ever since poeple were given the opportunity to purchase performance instead of having to create it themselves it's always been, "you can go as fast as your wallet is fat", my point was to try & bring a little reality into the RMW-vs-Thmpr air that was wafting in the thread.
Unless you know the specs of both products & what the physical expectations of each is, the comparison is moot, and nothing more than "you'll go as fast as you want to spend", and thats all.
As far as me, I bought what was available at the time, because I knew where the design for the RMW head originated, I'm actually changing when I do my rebuild, for my own reasons, hell if Da Fu was still producing on a regular basis, I'd spend the extra on one of his, but thats just me & the choice I would make.
Unless you know the specs of both products & what the physical expectations of each is, the comparison is moot, and nothing more than "you'll go as fast as you want to spend", and thats all.
As far as me, I bought what was available at the time, because I knew where the design for the RMW head originated, I'm actually changing when I do my rebuild, for my own reasons, hell if Da Fu was still producing on a regular basis, I'd spend the extra on one of his, but thats just me & the choice I would make.
Last edited by BlwnAway; Apr 12, 2013 at 04:31 AM.
Personally, I don't believe a head is a place where you want to find a "budget bargain." It's too critical of a piece. After more research than anyone in their right mind should ever do, I went with a cnc'd head that had flow testing behind it. The RMW heads are remarkably consistent on the dyno, from one head to another. You pay for that. It's piece of mind for me, and from my perspective that's money well spent.
There are other places that do great work on heads too (endyn for example). But the places that go all out, with cnc/flowtesting, are no cheaper (in fact are usually more expensive) than the RMW head, and are not making more power.
There are other places that do great work on heads too (endyn for example). But the places that go all out, with cnc/flowtesting, are no cheaper (in fact are usually more expensive) than the RMW head, and are not making more power.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
Agreed to every word of that! ^^^
There is a time and place to cheap out on stuff, a head for a high performance engine build is not one of them. Its like a pro mechanic buying tools from harbor freight... Do you really trust its quality and durability?
There is a time and place to cheap out on stuff, a head for a high performance engine build is not one of them. Its like a pro mechanic buying tools from harbor freight... Do you really trust its quality and durability?
Oh my.....I buy so many disposable tools from harbor freight it's ridiculous (Runs and hides in nearest corner. Then realizes I'm not a professional mechanic, and will never even be close to that. Runs back out of corner). 
In an unrelated note, this whole conversation reminds of something a MINI vendor once told me: He can price a marginal part at $399.00, and people will stand in line to buy it. He can price a part with a substantial performance improvement at $500.00 and no one will touch it. Food for thought.
In an unrelated note, this whole conversation reminds of something a MINI vendor once told me: He can price a marginal part at $399.00, and people will stand in line to buy it. He can price a part with a substantial performance improvement at $500.00 and no one will touch it. Food for thought.
Last edited by cct1; Apr 4, 2013 at 06:39 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 316
From: Arnold, MO.
I agree completely on the pay the money & go all out, (hell just look at my sig. below) but we all know it happens, personally I think they both make a quality product. Thumper just happens to offer more than one option for those that want it, whether it be for your performance goals or your budget.
Heeeyyyy, watch it there with the HF comments.....
, I almost wish I never found out I live close to one...., and yes if you were a mech. by trade I'd prob. think twice (although you'd be suprised by the number of mechanics that have premium stuff at work & HF stuff @ home) but I for one love their stuff for my needs, and the hand tools are still lifetime.
for example, my new Wall-O-Tools, 39 drawers, 80x60, not pretty, but works well enough for me & less than $750 invested, WTF.
All the drawers aren't full, but there all being used & I still wish I had a little more seperation....Just more proof that I'm not quite right & "anything" I say or do should prob. be examined carefully!
Heeeyyyy, watch it there with the HF comments.....
, I almost wish I never found out I live close to one...., and yes if you were a mech. by trade I'd prob. think twice (although you'd be suprised by the number of mechanics that have premium stuff at work & HF stuff @ home) but I for one love their stuff for my needs, and the hand tools are still lifetime. for example, my new Wall-O-Tools, 39 drawers, 80x60, not pretty, but works well enough for me & less than $750 invested, WTF. All the drawers aren't full, but there all being used & I still wish I had a little more seperation....Just more proof that I'm not quite right & "anything" I say or do should prob. be examined carefully!
Last edited by BlwnAway; Apr 12, 2013 at 04:39 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
I too am guilty of going to HF once and a while to get something I will only use once or if it is something meant to be destroyed.
I agree with Mark, both parts work, one obviously does its job a little better than the other, but both work. Then consider the cost difference... A few hundred $ more in the right spot worth it?
I agree with Mark, both parts work, one obviously does its job a little better than the other, but both work. Then consider the cost difference... A few hundred $ more in the right spot worth it?
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 535
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From: Hickory,NC
Other reasons
You are overly shy and standing on the podium scares you or your trophy room is already full.
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2013
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I like this answer the best so far. Thanks
I just found and read through this thread, and am actually not surprised at all by what I see throughout the thread.
I have had ties to both people responsible for the making of these heads in the past, so you can either take it or leave it for what its worth...
The '02 we know has the RMW head, probably an RMW header?, larger than the JCW 380cc injectors, and a 14-15% pulley on the original non coated S/C. No meth, nothing else that is going to add any kind of real power. (Unless he snuck one of those shiny red OCC's that add an easy 20 HP to a JustaCooper by the guy with the laptop)
The '06 had aTPR2 head (BV), W/M injection with an un specified mix (knowing the guy with the laptop, if it is tuned by him 99% of the time it is tuned for 100% Meth... He will push it to no end), it's also got a header (make unknown, and yes it would be nice to know what one because it does make a difference) and a 17% pulley on the stock '05 and up S/C which has the heat dispersant coating, and is using 380cc JCW injectors.
Minus the meth, and obvious boost increase of the 17%, both cars are pretty similar. And both of those are found on the '06 car which should give it an advantage over the '02. Both where on the same dyno, same day, same guy tuning both cars. You can argue that the tuner didnt agree with the hardware installed on the '06, so he didnt put the same amount of care into the tune resulting in lower numbers. However knowing that said tuner, he is out to make money plain and simple, and it is bad business to do that to a customer, and potential return customer. He also wont tune anything to an unsafe level, and will decline to even touch the car if there are any mechanical issues or if the customer wants or expects too much of what can actually be done.
On to the graph... Its legit, both cars show what you would expect with the hardware installed on each. The 17% brings more low end TQ, due to higher boost at lower RPM. The 380's run out up top where the 450-550s can still supply an adequate amount to remain safe AFRs.
Who cares where the one car stops the run and the other keeps on pulling... LOOK AT THE GRAPH! You can clearly see the difference in power where the '06 had to cut out, and it was already down quite a bit from the '02! More than a header or a weaker motor excuse is good for. Just because the '06 didnt have the right hardware to support higher RPM doesn't mean it was running out of fuel down lower, it just means that at the higher RPMs it couldn't safely run the correct AFR so the run was terminated at that point.
Come on people, there has been enough tuner on tuner trash talk... This graph accurately as possible represents both head to to head, same day, same dyno, same tuner. All bias opinions aside, it should be clear that there is a winner here!
So please stop the excuses, and the whining, and accept the results.
I have had ties to both people responsible for the making of these heads in the past, so you can either take it or leave it for what its worth...
The '02 we know has the RMW head, probably an RMW header?, larger than the JCW 380cc injectors, and a 14-15% pulley on the original non coated S/C. No meth, nothing else that is going to add any kind of real power. (Unless he snuck one of those shiny red OCC's that add an easy 20 HP to a JustaCooper by the guy with the laptop)
The '06 had aTPR2 head (BV), W/M injection with an un specified mix (knowing the guy with the laptop, if it is tuned by him 99% of the time it is tuned for 100% Meth... He will push it to no end), it's also got a header (make unknown, and yes it would be nice to know what one because it does make a difference) and a 17% pulley on the stock '05 and up S/C which has the heat dispersant coating, and is using 380cc JCW injectors.
Minus the meth, and obvious boost increase of the 17%, both cars are pretty similar. And both of those are found on the '06 car which should give it an advantage over the '02. Both where on the same dyno, same day, same guy tuning both cars. You can argue that the tuner didnt agree with the hardware installed on the '06, so he didnt put the same amount of care into the tune resulting in lower numbers. However knowing that said tuner, he is out to make money plain and simple, and it is bad business to do that to a customer, and potential return customer. He also wont tune anything to an unsafe level, and will decline to even touch the car if there are any mechanical issues or if the customer wants or expects too much of what can actually be done.
On to the graph... Its legit, both cars show what you would expect with the hardware installed on each. The 17% brings more low end TQ, due to higher boost at lower RPM. The 380's run out up top where the 450-550s can still supply an adequate amount to remain safe AFRs.
Who cares where the one car stops the run and the other keeps on pulling... LOOK AT THE GRAPH! You can clearly see the difference in power where the '06 had to cut out, and it was already down quite a bit from the '02! More than a header or a weaker motor excuse is good for. Just because the '06 didnt have the right hardware to support higher RPM doesn't mean it was running out of fuel down lower, it just means that at the higher RPMs it couldn't safely run the correct AFR so the run was terminated at that point.
Come on people, there has been enough tuner on tuner trash talk... This graph accurately as possible represents both head to to head, same day, same dyno, same tuner. All bias opinions aside, it should be clear that there is a winner here!
So please stop the excuses, and the whining, and accept the results.
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Cars were much more alike than they were different.
The synergistic affect of RMW parts and a tune out did, meth a smaller pulley and coated jcw m45. Oh I think the gears are slightly longer in the 02 car as well which would have have a slight effect as well.
Both cars were tuned well and both were running 93.
The synergistic affect of RMW parts and a tune out did, meth a smaller pulley and coated jcw m45. Oh I think the gears are slightly longer in the 02 car as well which would have have a slight effect as well.
Both cars were tuned well and both were running 93.