I've heard people talk about using the throttle to help steer mini's when driving really fast...mostly when out on a road coarse or track. I've never pushed my mini very hard, so I don't really have any experience with track or road coarse driving.

From the little bit that I have pushed the stock suspension/handling of my MCS, it does feel a little that the cars naturally have some oversteer....wanting to swing the rear end out around hard corners. I'm assuming that when people say you need to "steer with the gas"...I'm assuming that they are talking about as the rear end starts to swing out, you need to use the throttle and the front wheels to pull the rear end back in line?

Just looking for some general info on how mini's handle around a track, and the different techniques people use.

Thanks!

 

For a front wheel drive car, the natural tendency is to understeer, unless the car is modified.

Steering with the throttle in a FWD car basically means that you spin the front tires a little while in the corner to slide the front of the car to the outside of the corner - throttle induced understeer. When you let up, the car will want to rotate more effectively or perhaps oversteer.

My suspension is moddified so my car has a neutral to more oversteer tendency. I can slide the front end with the throttle, snap off, and have oversteer. A subtle correction with the steering wheel brings the car back in line. At times, for example turning onto an onramp at speed, I can get all 4 wheels to be sliding and the car will smoothly slide from understeer to oversteer and end back in line.

 

Generally they understeer, except if you lift off the gas or brake, then oversteer can be ugly fast.

Really it has everything to do with an individual car and a particular turn and then what are you doing in that turn. Changing tire pressures, ride height, sway settings, etc, etc, etc changes everything so it is hard to answer that question. If it isn't a stock car, no one really knows what will happen until it happens and even that won't work since most here have not driven a stock mini in a long time.

Steering with the throttle is more important with RWD cars if you ask me since you can just about point the front of the car with the throttle, but with the minis, avoiding braking or even lifting off the gas will help with the car be more neutral, again, only in general, during most turning situations.

One common belief is that all braking should be done before the turn and you accelerate while turning. This is often preferred since it is more controllable as it limits *** happy oversteer and more throttle generally lessens understeer or at least while accelerating many cars are more predictable. Braking while turning is always more tricky than while going straight, (at least it was before ABS/DSC came out.) So, Brake before the turn, try to give gas during the turn and if that doesn't work, change something.

Someone said most folks should forgo the next mod and spend the $$ on HP driving lessons. That is great advice. Without that or at least a nice, safe clear track or lot, one must take time to very slowly drive harder until things go wrong, then don't do that again if you have a second chance.

 

yep on HRM's observations - with respect to not exploring these behaviors on the street.

my setup is deliberately tuned to produce trailing throttle oversteer, because that's handy in an autocross course. all that means is that i've emphasized the natural tendency of the car to slide the "light end". move the weight to the rear by opening the throttle and yep it understeers, but move the weight the other way and the rear end loses some traction and slides if the car is near the edge.

this means i can feather the throttle and the car will rotate to point where i want to go next, and then nail the throttle and stop that slide instantly. handy (if i don't overdo it).

but we're talking about a big departure from stock here - with all the chassis tweaks and -2.5 degrees of camber up front, and only -1.0 out back. even with those camber settings i still run 38/46 front and rear on a dry day.

too twitchy in the slaloms? just drop 2 lbs on the back and things settle right down.

ymmv of course...


cheers,

charlie

Here's an example (notice I've just a touch of opposite lock)

 

Echo the two statements above. I don't experience any lift-induced oversteer, but, by habit, I don't chop the throttle. In steady-state cornering, the stock Mini definitely understeers.

What's happening when you accelerate or decelerate is a transfer of load between your tires. When you accelerate, the load moves toward the rear tires, etc. The center of mass of your car stays more or less in the same place (slight movement based on body roll/pitch), but it's rather negligible. In the middle of a turn, if you lift off the throttle, the load transfers from the rear tires to the front. In other words, there is less force pressing down onto the rear tires, reducing traction on that end and allowing that part of the car to rotate around the center of mass a little easier. Conversely, if the back end starts to come out a little bit, you would step on the throttle to transfer load to the rear tires to increase traction on that end.

To compensate for understeer, lifting works to achieve the goal of making a turn, but it's not ideal. When you lift, you're not accelerating. Ideally, your suspension would be set up to be near neutral (biased over or under depending on driver preferences). This allows you to make the turn without scrubbing speed, only making minor adjustments to the throttle to keep your car pointing the right direction. A larger rear sway bar is a good starting point for this. It transfers load between the left and right rear tires, allowing the car to rotate more. You have to be careful with these, though. If you have a tendency to lift off the throttle (and the more abruptly you lift, the worse off you are), you can quickly find yourself pointing the wrong direction.

Again to echo HRM (who might have been referencing a post I made!), the best place to learn about your car's (and your own) limits is on the track. You'll learn more about it than we can ever tell you over the internet and I'd prefer more track time over a new part any day of the week.

 

I agree with all of the above ... With the exception that a year's worth of autocross should be mandatory for anyone setting a foot (tire?) on a track for the first time. I've seen way too many "1st time track driver" tragedies.