R50/53 Mini Slammed in Consumer Reports 2004 New Car Buying Guide
OVERDRIVE - Racing Champion
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,262
Likes: 72
From: Mililani, Hawaii
I'd like to ask the question-
How many of us have been contacted by Consumer Reports to fill out the product evaluation form for our MINIs?
I have had nearly zero problems since I bought my MCS in Feb and no one has bothered to contact me. Not CR, Not MINIUSA, Not anyone.
I know there are troublefree MINIs out there. I know that some problems do exist. I know that the problems for the most part can be fixed. Some problems are nagging however.
If you know the problems and avoid ordering the options that include those problems then you are more likely to have a troublefree MINI.
I owned a 91 Dodge Caravan and drove it as my primary car for 12 years and over 125,000 miles. Sure there were problems but mostly small ones and I had many original systems including the automatic transmission (3 speed!).
CR gave this Caravan horrible marks from day one but also very high marks for utility.
If you have trouble with your MINI then fix it under warranty. If the problem recurs then report it to the dealership.
So far I have had much more trouble from my 2001 Honda Odyssey than from my 2003 MCS and that was from day 1.
Despite these troubles in my Honda my Honda dealership sent me a letter recently saying they wish to buy back my Honda for 80% of the retail price and would like to sell me another new Honda.
It's all supply and demand.
How many of us have been contacted by Consumer Reports to fill out the product evaluation form for our MINIs?
I have had nearly zero problems since I bought my MCS in Feb and no one has bothered to contact me. Not CR, Not MINIUSA, Not anyone.
I know there are troublefree MINIs out there. I know that some problems do exist. I know that the problems for the most part can be fixed. Some problems are nagging however.
If you know the problems and avoid ordering the options that include those problems then you are more likely to have a troublefree MINI.
I owned a 91 Dodge Caravan and drove it as my primary car for 12 years and over 125,000 miles. Sure there were problems but mostly small ones and I had many original systems including the automatic transmission (3 speed!).
CR gave this Caravan horrible marks from day one but also very high marks for utility.
If you have trouble with your MINI then fix it under warranty. If the problem recurs then report it to the dealership.
So far I have had much more trouble from my 2001 Honda Odyssey than from my 2003 MCS and that was from day 1.
Despite these troubles in my Honda my Honda dealership sent me a letter recently saying they wish to buy back my Honda for 80% of the retail price and would like to sell me another new Honda.
It's all supply and demand.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
If I wanted bulletproof reliability I would've bought an Accord or Camry. I would then close the garage door and run the engine til the gas ran out, cuz I was BORED AND DEPRESSED OUTTA MY FREAK'N MIND! 
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>>I kinda like the whole deal. It'll keep the fence-riders away, and true enthusiasts already know that these past issues are no longer relevant. (now if they could only get the ECU software right again :evil: )
Agreed, however someone also made the point that BMW/MINI won't like this. As a reputable company, nothing is more embarassing than a poor product that is associated with a premium brand. Even though it is not a BMW, most people know it is made by BMW and will therefore associate the poor quality with both brands. Hopefully, this will push MINI to get the quality issues right without ruining the driving experience.
Personally, I would put up with some quirks for a truly enjoyable car...after all I do own a VW. I have no interest in driving an appliance everyday because a refrigerator just doesn't handle that well.
Agreed, however someone also made the point that BMW/MINI won't like this. As a reputable company, nothing is more embarassing than a poor product that is associated with a premium brand. Even though it is not a BMW, most people know it is made by BMW and will therefore associate the poor quality with both brands. Hopefully, this will push MINI to get the quality issues right without ruining the driving experience.
Personally, I would put up with some quirks for a truly enjoyable car...after all I do own a VW. I have no interest in driving an appliance everyday because a refrigerator just doesn't handle that well.
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: Central Pa
>>If I wanted bulletproof reliability I would've bought an Accord or Camry. I would then close the garage door and run the engine til the gas ran out, cuz I was BORED AND DEPRESSED OUTTA MY FREAK'N MIND!
>>
>>_________________
>><A HREF="http://www.bayminis.com" TARGET="_blank">
this is great !!!!
>>
>>_________________
>><A HREF="http://www.bayminis.com" TARGET="_blank">
this is great !!!!
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 582
Likes: 0
From: Washington DC area
I think we all agree that the quality of the MINI has been improving since the first ones in 2002. However, I think that it will take some time for this to be reflected in CR's ratings. The MINI has been out for maybe two years, and we are just now getting reliability ratings.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Although I've been one of the lucky ones with a problem free MINI (really - no problems), you just can't use Consumer Reports for anything other than household appliances as they seem to apply the same standards for cars.
Back in 1983 I had the left rear suspension break off of my TR-6 at speed (the entire suspension, wheel and chassis member still attached. If that didn't turn me off to Triumph build quality, I suspect that any future niggles won't phase me either. Fell in love with it, restored that one and five more after that.
Bottom line, for those concerned about resale value, nothing can replace a documented service history. Provided you can document relatively trouble free motoring or repairs of the problems, the bottom line shouldn't be affected all that much. Besides, most of us (me at least) are treating our Cooper's as long-term keepers.
Merry Christmas! :smile:
Back in 1983 I had the left rear suspension break off of my TR-6 at speed (the entire suspension, wheel and chassis member still attached. If that didn't turn me off to Triumph build quality, I suspect that any future niggles won't phase me either. Fell in love with it, restored that one and five more after that.
Bottom line, for those concerned about resale value, nothing can replace a documented service history. Provided you can document relatively trouble free motoring or repairs of the problems, the bottom line shouldn't be affected all that much. Besides, most of us (me at least) are treating our Cooper's as long-term keepers.
Merry Christmas! :smile:
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Wonder Lake IL
I have a 03 MCS with 4800 troublefree miles and LOVE it. And yes, I'm under 30. I wouldn't trade my Mini in for anything. Consumer reports needs to focus on what they know, which isn't cars. Cars have never been their thing.
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 0
From: Lakeside, CA
>>I think we all agree that the quality of the MINI has been improving since the first ones in 2002. However, I think that it will take some time for this to be reflected in CR's ratings. The MINI has been out for maybe two years, and we are just now getting reliability ratings.
Most of the time the first year a new model comes out by anyone it has more bugs than the next and following years of the same model.
Like was said you want bulletproff don't drive it hard You drive like I drive and you WILL have problems. Just a matter of time until I'll be in the market for a new engine. But first I have to loade this one up, intake - exhaust, jet fuel or whatever I can put on it to make it better (read faster).
Earl
Most of the time the first year a new model comes out by anyone it has more bugs than the next and following years of the same model.
Like was said you want bulletproff don't drive it hard
You drive like I drive and you WILL have problems. Just a matter of time until I'll be in the market for a new engine. But first I have to loade this one up, intake - exhaust, jet fuel or whatever I can put on it to make it better (read faster).Earl
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Elsewhere I've read that the resale value of the MINI is 52-54% after 4 years, best in its class. Many minor problems, but what to expect from a first or second year production model? On the other hand, it has a BMW stamp on it, no?
Coordinator :: Alabama Motoring Society & South East
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 10,170
Likes: 2
From: Burning-Ham Alabama
The folks at Consumer Reports would not know what fun was if it popped out of a reliable Toyota Camry and bit them in the a$$!!! 
I was delighted with my MINI developed a very small and slow oil leak (that I have not fixed in 5000 miles) because owning a British car that does not leak oil would be like owning a German car! Ha Ha Ha!
I was delighted with my MINI developed a very small and slow oil leak (that I have not fixed in 5000 miles) because owning a British car that does not leak oil would be like owning a German car! Ha Ha Ha!
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
[I'm gonna get pounded for this but what the heck.] Anyone who got the initial years ['02, 03' (me), even '04] & expect absolutely, positively ZERO problems is overreaching. Everyone knows that a brand new automobile will have its moments. That's what the warranty's for. That's the chance that we take. A smart chance by the way, I'd say ...BMW's our umbrella. Okay, you all can mob me now 
ops: ...
ops: ...
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,489
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
^^ I'm with you. It's foolish to think that the first few years of production on this car are gonna be trouble free. The Consumer Reports people are only relaying the facts. Rattles (had them), coolant leak (had it), stumble (had it)...
Who cares, we love our MINIs and they have great residual value.
Who cares, we love our MINIs and they have great residual value.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Georgia, USA
I was number 2 on the list in Atlanta, could not wait to spec out a car, so I got one of the "non spec" DS/W MINI S cars. I love it, have never had a problem that I could not deal with, it has never left me stranded anywhere and I would buy another one if needed. It is the most fun I have had motoring in years, and I am happy. I also have a 02 M3 and I have more fun in the MINI when I motor, it gets more attention, I cannot say enough about what the MINI is and is about.
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: Saratoga NY
Maybe, I am just very Lucky but, in 30 years of driving, the only car that gave me any problems was a used 1971 MG BGT. Towed home 7 times in one year. So, did that discourage me? Nope, I've owned about 7 more MG's since.
I had a 1976 Pinto (first new car). That was supposed to be one of the worst cars ever. I put 100,000 completely trouble free miles on her and the guy I sold it to put another 42,000 on it.
My 2002 MCS has had the expansion tank problem and sun roof rattle, both easily fixed. I got about 24,000 miles on her with a few mods and couldn't be happier.
I guess my point to this is....IMHO, is that for most people, they will buy what they like, pretty much regardless of anything else. Buying anything can be like shooting dice, you can end up with craps at anytime.
I had a 1976 Pinto (first new car). That was supposed to be one of the worst cars ever. I put 100,000 completely trouble free miles on her and the guy I sold it to put another 42,000 on it.
My 2002 MCS has had the expansion tank problem and sun roof rattle, both easily fixed. I got about 24,000 miles on her with a few mods and couldn't be happier.
I guess my point to this is....IMHO, is that for most people, they will buy what they like, pretty much regardless of anything else. Buying anything can be like shooting dice, you can end up with craps at anytime.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Consumers Report is a great tool for those looking for relative comparisons and thus provides one with a self-justification in buying a Toyota or Honda as they are best-in-class as "trouble-free" cars.
However, we bought our MINIs because of the driving exitement, being first to experience the new MINI after driving the old (had a 1968 Mini Morris in Australia for two years and it was a blast)... the reasons for our purchase go on and reliability was not a top criteria.
However, we bought our MINIs because of the driving exitement, being first to experience the new MINI after driving the old (had a 1968 Mini Morris in Australia for two years and it was a blast)... the reasons for our purchase go on and reliability was not a top criteria.
Ironically, i had 3 Hondas in the past that all had problems. One had to
be towed as the ignitor failed. 2 of them had to be recalled. My
Infiniti also had to get a new 02 sensor and ECM reprogrammed. Our
Lexus had one bad wheelbearing out of the box. The
only cars that didn't have major functional problems were Mazda
and Subaru, and the MCS so far...and all cars that I have/had
were purchased new. (MCS has a skippin' CD player...)
I've owned many cars and from my personal experience, some people
just get unlucky sometimes and becomes a statistic. Even if Toyota
and Honda may be classified as 'reliable,' im always skeptical for the
one I have...
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03MCS IB/Blk: 123, Aerokit, R90 17x7, TK5 16x7, 6CDMP3, and a few more.
be towed as the ignitor failed. 2 of them had to be recalled. My
Infiniti also had to get a new 02 sensor and ECM reprogrammed. Our
Lexus had one bad wheelbearing out of the box. The
only cars that didn't have major functional problems were Mazda
and Subaru, and the MCS so far...and all cars that I have/had
were purchased new. (MCS has a skippin' CD player...)
I've owned many cars and from my personal experience, some people
just get unlucky sometimes and becomes a statistic. Even if Toyota
and Honda may be classified as 'reliable,' im always skeptical for the
one I have...
_________________
03MCS IB/Blk: 123, Aerokit, R90 17x7, TK5 16x7, 6CDMP3, and a few more.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 0
>>>>that you should have use the word you're 5 times in the above message.
>>
>>===>It's "used", not "use"
Earl was going for a laugh, so I don't think we should be so hard on him.
But it sure took this thread away from the relialbility thing for a bit!
I have had mine back for glove box pop open, and twice for the airbag light in the first 4,000 miles. But after owning many British cars of the 60's, the new MINI is a paragon of reliability for me. Depends on what you are used to.
My Dad would say that his 1961 Jag MKIX was the safest car he ever owned.
It would not start in bad weather!
Regards,
Red
>>
>>===>It's "used", not "use"
Earl was going for a laugh, so I don't think we should be so hard on him.
But it sure took this thread away from the relialbility thing for a bit!
I have had mine back for glove box pop open, and twice for the airbag light in the first 4,000 miles. But after owning many British cars of the 60's, the new MINI is a paragon of reliability for me. Depends on what you are used to.
My Dad would say that his 1961 Jag MKIX was the safest car he ever owned.
It would not start in bad weather!
Regards,
Red
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 1
From: PA/NJ
I would agree with the sentiment that CR is not the best resource for car information - a good one, and worth looking at, but not the best. Occasionally, reliability does not even keep them from rating a car a "best buy." Oddly enough, amoung a test of small wagons they rated the Jetta Wagon their best buy, even though it had one of the worst reliability ratings. Granted, after 7 months and almost 15k miles, my Jetta Wagon has been totally problem free - I've changed the oil, but that's it and it has never been inside a dealer since I picked it up (knock, knock...).
The idea of purchasing a MINI for "BMW reliability" is a bit misguided as far as I can tell. From 20+ years of following the automotive world, BMW's have never been known for great reliability. Great engineering? Yes. Incredible performance? Of course? Of course! Reliable? Eh... well... to be honest, they seem to be too high-strung, too much on the cutting edge and putting new technology in their cars to be reliable. The E36 3-series is a shining example of this. Great car and wonderful to drive. And can drive you absolutely bonkers with needling problems. This seems to be indicative of German cars in general, but the driving dynamics tend to far outweigh these short-comings, so we buy them anyway.
No car is perfect. There are simply too many little things to go wrong. But when you look at new cars as a whole against the cars of the past, the improved reliability and ease of maintenence is staggering.
The idea of purchasing a MINI for "BMW reliability" is a bit misguided as far as I can tell. From 20+ years of following the automotive world, BMW's have never been known for great reliability. Great engineering? Yes. Incredible performance? Of course? Of course! Reliable? Eh... well... to be honest, they seem to be too high-strung, too much on the cutting edge and putting new technology in their cars to be reliable. The E36 3-series is a shining example of this. Great car and wonderful to drive. And can drive you absolutely bonkers with needling problems. This seems to be indicative of German cars in general, but the driving dynamics tend to far outweigh these short-comings, so we buy them anyway.
No car is perfect. There are simply too many little things to go wrong. But when you look at new cars as a whole against the cars of the past, the improved reliability and ease of maintenence is staggering.