R50/53 MCS v. RX-8
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Neutral
Joined: Sep 2002
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So I thought I was all set on a Cooper S. Then I heard that the Mazda RX-8 was now available through my work's S-plan discount. I can get a Mazda RX-8 with the GT package for a tick under $28K. That is only a $3K more than a similarly equipped MCS (assuming no discount on MCS) for a $31 sticker car. I am seriously considering it, though there are some obvious drawbacks. First, it's more money. Reliability is questionable and so is the resale value, so I would end up leasing. There is no standard spare tire and no runflats. 18'' tires are a lot more expensive to replace than 16'' if one is to reguarly take the car to auto-x. On the other hand, it is a rear wheel drive car with 50/50 balance, which should be a bit more fun at an auto-x. It has more rear seat space and more trunk space. The rear doors make it easeier to put child seats in the back. The back seat area is probably also safer for the occupants since it is not so close to the rear bumper.
My requirements for a car are that it be sporty, suitable for auto-x, and would fit 2 adults and 2 kids in child seats for short trips. Both the mini and RX-8 suit that purpose just fine.
Any additional thoughts/suggestions?
My requirements for a car are that it be sporty, suitable for auto-x, and would fit 2 adults and 2 kids in child seats for short trips. Both the mini and RX-8 suit that purpose just fine.
Any additional thoughts/suggestions?
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Too many great cars, too few dollars, garage space and time to drive them all! This was not the case as few as 3 years ago, when the Z3 was the only thing that sparked my interest. We also have a MCS, so the decision's already been made in our family.
I expect that, since you've posted this to the MINI forum, most everyone will tell you to go for the Cooper S. I test drove an RX-8. It's a great car and I think I'd have same problem deciding. There's also a neat Red Line Ion coming out, and the Focus SVT and the boosted Neon, but they all suffer from links to lesser mass market versions.
I think either car would be great and would be the same two I'd be considering. The MINI volume will be kept low, so I'd say it'd get the nod as far as depreciation goes. (At the same time, used RX-7 values have held up well.) I considered trading in the Z3 for an RX-8, but decided to just sit pat.
The RX-8 has a better ride and I'd say it will be more reliable because it's naturally aspirated. Rotary engines can last a long time. They also get crummy fuel mileage.
I expect that, since you've posted this to the MINI forum, most everyone will tell you to go for the Cooper S. I test drove an RX-8. It's a great car and I think I'd have same problem deciding. There's also a neat Red Line Ion coming out, and the Focus SVT and the boosted Neon, but they all suffer from links to lesser mass market versions.
I think either car would be great and would be the same two I'd be considering. The MINI volume will be kept low, so I'd say it'd get the nod as far as depreciation goes. (At the same time, used RX-7 values have held up well.) I considered trading in the Z3 for an RX-8, but decided to just sit pat.
The RX-8 has a better ride and I'd say it will be more reliable because it's naturally aspirated. Rotary engines can last a long time. They also get crummy fuel mileage.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
From: La Jolla, CA
>>Rotary engines can last a long time. >>
If you consider 60,000 miles a long time then I suppose. The RX-8 was really cool when it came out, then when everyone found out that Mazda was inflating the horsepower figures all the hype died and what was left was a cool design that's way overpriced.
If you consider 60,000 miles a long time then I suppose. The RX-8 was really cool when it came out, then when everyone found out that Mazda was inflating the horsepower figures all the hype died and what was left was a cool design that's way overpriced.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: St Pete Beach, FL
I've had 3 RX7's and the all lasted past 60K. You've actually got to take care of an engine for it to last on you!! I really wanted an RX-8 but gave up on it for two reasons: 1) IMO a "sports car" will NEVER have 4 doors! (it's even a stretch for a real sports car to have a back seat, especially one big enough to actually use!!) and 2) Finding out the next RX-7 is on it's way! I'll be happy and patient with my Mini in the meantime.
The Rotary is an awesome engine, the newer Renises engine gets better fuel economy too. It sounds like they are keeping the HP down so that it doesn't detract from the 7 crowd, of course here in the states we don't have a choice for now. As far as a car to put baby seats in, how about a nice mini van??
The Rotary is an awesome engine, the newer Renises engine gets better fuel economy too. It sounds like they are keeping the HP down so that it doesn't detract from the 7 crowd, of course here in the states we don't have a choice for now. As far as a car to put baby seats in, how about a nice mini van??
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 726
Likes: 0
Well, I test drove an RX-8 recently, and here's my brief, unprofessional, largely useless, but ultimately honest review:
DESIGN:
I know, this is subjective...but here's my opinion anyway for what it's worth:
I like it.
Quite a bit, in fact.
A "smallish" sports car that looks like a coupe, yet has four doors and comfortably seats the same number of people. Not bad.
Now call me a sucker for gimmicks, but the rear-hinged, almost invisible rear doors are really cool, not to mention amazingly useful...I'm willing to bet we'll be seeing a lot more of this in future models.
I LOVE the wheels...not only are the wheels themselves gorgeous, but they're incorporated beautifully into the car's overall design. While the 350Z tends to swallow its wheels when viewed from most angles, the RX-8 proudly displays it's massive 18-inch tires like big rubber biceps bulging through sheetmetal sleeves. The car looks tight, aggresive and muscular, with just the right amount of quirky edginess.
Attention to detail is superb, especially in the intricately engineered headlights/taillights and tastefully accented bodywork.
The triangular rotary "icon" is a recurring design theme throughout the car which makes it's appearance effectively both inside and out.
Inside, the cockpit is well laid out and attractive, if a little on the dull side. (MINI has forever altered my perception of what a dash should look like).
Seats are very supportive and pretty nice to look at, especially the two-tone leather ones.
Interior materials are, shall we say, "inconsistent", with fake aluminum mingling with plastic, rubber, leather and vinyl in a vast assortment of bizarre, sometimes interesting and sometimes cheesy textures.
Some ultra-shiny plastic trim pieces on the door panels seemed like they'd get scratched up just by looking at them wrong, and I give the nav system "joystick" 48 hours tops before it breaks off completely in one's hand..
Instruments are well placed and they look pretty good until you turn the headlights on...then they look fantastic. Not only that, but you can change the color of the lighting to suit your preference...very cool. (Calvin falls for yet another gimmick)..
Tall people beware: Headroom SUCKS. I'm "moderatly" tall at six feet even, and yet with the seat all the way down in the basement I could feel my hair brushing against the roof...a concerning sensation considering I just got a haircut yesterday.
Another ergonomic annoyance was the tiny pedal box (It felt much smaller than the MINI's). I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that being able to "heel/toe" the throttle and the dead pedal isn't a good thing..
On the upside, there's a little more room in the trunk. A lot more, actually. In fact it's pretty darn cavernous for a sports car. Big enough, in fact, that it comes with an emergency release latch inside, which proves you can lock a full-sized dude in there.
PERFORMANCE:
I'm not quite sure why the X-MEN chose this as their getaway car. It's really not that quick.
OK, maybe I was expecting too much what with all the fuss over the new Renesis engine and all, but still, I wasn't all that impressed.
Mazda's Initial test data numbers say that the RX-8 is about one and a half seconds faster to 60 than an MCS.
The seat of my pants kindly informed me that those numbers are probably a little optimistic.
Under 3000 RPM, it feels positively sluggish for a car of this nature. In fact, not much happens until the second half of the tach comes around, at which point the little 1.3 liter rotary comes alive and pulls smoothly all the way up to the red nine. Thats not a typo..that's a NINE, as in 9,000 rpm redline.
The rotary engine, by the way, makes a nice "alley cat in heat" growl off the line, and the overall "whoosh" is pleasing to the ears at the astronomical RPM's, though not nearly as lovely a tune as, say, the S2000's high-revving symphony.
Yes, the RX-8 is faster than an MCS. Just not $7,000 faster, in my humble opinion.
Handling is another story, and here the RX-8 is much more convincing. It's 50-50 weight ratio is readily apparent through the twisties, with a very nimble, balanced feel and terrific grip. I pushed it hard through some hairpin turns at 50+ MPH (much to the delight of the salesman) without so much as a chirp from the tires, and body-roll is minimal.
Relax, the MINI still feels better, especially in steering quickness/response...but yes, this car does handle beautifully.
The brakes are excellent. (What more can you really say about brakes?)
One last thing...of the 3 cars I sat in at the dealership, one had a short in the electrical system, and another had faulty seat controls...so build quality (or lack of it) might be an issue to consider, though in all fairness these were the very first RX-8's on the lot.
So anyway, for the two of you who are still reading this, my ultimate decision is that the RX-8 is a beautiful, well-designed and practical sports car that handles convincingly well but could use a little more juice from it's unique little rotary engine.
Being different is a good thing...but it'll also get you beat up by the bullies at recess... and with big kids like the 350Z and G35 Coupe in the yard, the RX-8 might have a tough semester ahead of it..
DESIGN:
I know, this is subjective...but here's my opinion anyway for what it's worth:
I like it.
Quite a bit, in fact.
A "smallish" sports car that looks like a coupe, yet has four doors and comfortably seats the same number of people. Not bad.
Now call me a sucker for gimmicks, but the rear-hinged, almost invisible rear doors are really cool, not to mention amazingly useful...I'm willing to bet we'll be seeing a lot more of this in future models.
I LOVE the wheels...not only are the wheels themselves gorgeous, but they're incorporated beautifully into the car's overall design. While the 350Z tends to swallow its wheels when viewed from most angles, the RX-8 proudly displays it's massive 18-inch tires like big rubber biceps bulging through sheetmetal sleeves. The car looks tight, aggresive and muscular, with just the right amount of quirky edginess.
Attention to detail is superb, especially in the intricately engineered headlights/taillights and tastefully accented bodywork.
The triangular rotary "icon" is a recurring design theme throughout the car which makes it's appearance effectively both inside and out.
Inside, the cockpit is well laid out and attractive, if a little on the dull side. (MINI has forever altered my perception of what a dash should look like).
Seats are very supportive and pretty nice to look at, especially the two-tone leather ones.
Interior materials are, shall we say, "inconsistent", with fake aluminum mingling with plastic, rubber, leather and vinyl in a vast assortment of bizarre, sometimes interesting and sometimes cheesy textures.
Some ultra-shiny plastic trim pieces on the door panels seemed like they'd get scratched up just by looking at them wrong, and I give the nav system "joystick" 48 hours tops before it breaks off completely in one's hand..
Instruments are well placed and they look pretty good until you turn the headlights on...then they look fantastic. Not only that, but you can change the color of the lighting to suit your preference...very cool. (Calvin falls for yet another gimmick)..
Tall people beware: Headroom SUCKS. I'm "moderatly" tall at six feet even, and yet with the seat all the way down in the basement I could feel my hair brushing against the roof...a concerning sensation considering I just got a haircut yesterday.
Another ergonomic annoyance was the tiny pedal box (It felt much smaller than the MINI's). I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that being able to "heel/toe" the throttle and the dead pedal isn't a good thing..
On the upside, there's a little more room in the trunk. A lot more, actually. In fact it's pretty darn cavernous for a sports car. Big enough, in fact, that it comes with an emergency release latch inside, which proves you can lock a full-sized dude in there.
PERFORMANCE:
I'm not quite sure why the X-MEN chose this as their getaway car. It's really not that quick.
OK, maybe I was expecting too much what with all the fuss over the new Renesis engine and all, but still, I wasn't all that impressed.
Mazda's Initial test data numbers say that the RX-8 is about one and a half seconds faster to 60 than an MCS.
The seat of my pants kindly informed me that those numbers are probably a little optimistic.
Under 3000 RPM, it feels positively sluggish for a car of this nature. In fact, not much happens until the second half of the tach comes around, at which point the little 1.3 liter rotary comes alive and pulls smoothly all the way up to the red nine. Thats not a typo..that's a NINE, as in 9,000 rpm redline.
The rotary engine, by the way, makes a nice "alley cat in heat" growl off the line, and the overall "whoosh" is pleasing to the ears at the astronomical RPM's, though not nearly as lovely a tune as, say, the S2000's high-revving symphony.
Yes, the RX-8 is faster than an MCS. Just not $7,000 faster, in my humble opinion.
Handling is another story, and here the RX-8 is much more convincing. It's 50-50 weight ratio is readily apparent through the twisties, with a very nimble, balanced feel and terrific grip. I pushed it hard through some hairpin turns at 50+ MPH (much to the delight of the salesman) without so much as a chirp from the tires, and body-roll is minimal.
Relax, the MINI still feels better, especially in steering quickness/response...but yes, this car does handle beautifully.
The brakes are excellent. (What more can you really say about brakes?)
One last thing...of the 3 cars I sat in at the dealership, one had a short in the electrical system, and another had faulty seat controls...so build quality (or lack of it) might be an issue to consider, though in all fairness these were the very first RX-8's on the lot.
So anyway, for the two of you who are still reading this, my ultimate decision is that the RX-8 is a beautiful, well-designed and practical sports car that handles convincingly well but could use a little more juice from it's unique little rotary engine.
Being different is a good thing...but it'll also get you beat up by the bullies at recess... and with big kids like the 350Z and G35 Coupe in the yard, the RX-8 might have a tough semester ahead of it..
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
Likes: 0
Apples to Oranges comparison, period. The RX8 is a very nice car and the Rotary 1.3L engine is a technological gem, but this car is a totally different beast from the MINI, beginning with its RWD configuration and typical GT car tuning and styling. The MINI Cooper S in "Base" form is $8K to $10K cheaper than a base RX8.
A fair comparison would be a Cooper S vs a Focus SVT or a Nissan 350Z to a Mazda RX8.
If I had to choose between the RX8 and the 350Z, I would pick the Mazda anyday of the week.
the MINI is a fun FWD "Pocket Rocket" with incredible handling that matches or even surpasses the handling dynamics of pricier RWD cars. the MINI has "Persona" something missing from most anything made in Japan, Inc.
The back seat in the RX8 is pretty tight in despite of the rear suicide doors.
Resale value goes to the MINI hands down. these cars are fetching obscenely high prices in the used car market and in used car auctions. You won't see Mazdas there.
If your priorities are super fast acceleration and mucho horsepower, then the Mazda is better suited to you, but if absolute fun to drive, character, cool factor, incredible handling, resale value and German roadcar feel are important to you, then a Cooper S will be right up your alley.
You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
A fair comparison would be a Cooper S vs a Focus SVT or a Nissan 350Z to a Mazda RX8.
If I had to choose between the RX8 and the 350Z, I would pick the Mazda anyday of the week.
the MINI is a fun FWD "Pocket Rocket" with incredible handling that matches or even surpasses the handling dynamics of pricier RWD cars. the MINI has "Persona" something missing from most anything made in Japan, Inc.
The back seat in the RX8 is pretty tight in despite of the rear suicide doors.
Resale value goes to the MINI hands down. these cars are fetching obscenely high prices in the used car market and in used car auctions. You won't see Mazdas there.
If your priorities are super fast acceleration and mucho horsepower, then the Mazda is better suited to you, but if absolute fun to drive, character, cool factor, incredible handling, resale value and German roadcar feel are important to you, then a Cooper S will be right up your alley.
You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
Thread Starter
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Neutral
Joined: Sep 2002
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If the price difference were that big, I would not have a dilemma. The mini would be a clear winner in my book. However, as far as I can tell, there are no discounts on the mini. I can get severl $$ off the RX-8 without mych efforts through a discount plan at work (the S-plan) which brings the RX-8 very close to the mini. Here are the numbers:
RX-8 (S-plan)
Base - $24,633
w/ GT package (Xenon Headlights, DSC w/Traction Control, Bose Audio, Auto Day / Night Mirror w/Homelink, Moonroof, Leather Trimmed Upholstery, Faux Leather Door Trim, 6 Way Power Driver's Seat, Heated Seats, Lumbar Support, Fog Lamps, Heated Mirrors) add $3,355 ($27,988)
Mini Cooper S (MSRP)
Base - $19,849 (-$4,784)
W/ metalic paint, sport, premium, leather, HK stereo & heated seats - $24,969 (-$3,019)
Realistically, if I get the mini, I will go with the least options possible. I will get a non-metalic color (compromise since I like the BRG), leatherette seats, and I will add only the DSC, parktronic and front & rear fogs - around $21K.
With the RX-8, you can not get leather without the GT package, so in the end I will be getting options I do not really want, but I will be getting more nonetheless.
>>Apples to Oranges comparison, period. The RX8 is a very nice car and the Rotary 1.3L engine is a technological gem, but this car is a totally different beast from the MINI, beginning with its RWD configuration and typical GT car tuning and styling. The MINI Cooper S in "Base" form is $8K to $10K cheaper than a base RX8.
>>
>>A fair comparison would be a Cooper S vs a Focus SVT or a Nissan 350Z to a Mazda RX8.
>>
>>If I had to choose between the RX8 and the 350Z, I would pick the Mazda anyday of the week.
>>
>>the MINI is a fun FWD "Pocket Rocket" with incredible handling that matches or even surpasses the handling dynamics of pricier RWD cars. the MINI has "Persona" something missing from most anything made in Japan, Inc.
>>
>>The back seat in the RX8 is pretty tight in despite of the rear suicide doors.
>>
>>Resale value goes to the MINI hands down. these cars are fetching obscenely high prices in the used car market and in used car auctions. You won't see Mazdas there.
>>
>>If your priorities are super fast acceleration and mucho horsepower, then the Mazda is better suited to you, but if absolute fun to drive, character, cool factor, incredible handling, resale value and German roadcar feel are important to you, then a Cooper S will be right up your alley.
>>
>>You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
RX-8 (S-plan)
Base - $24,633
w/ GT package (Xenon Headlights, DSC w/Traction Control, Bose Audio, Auto Day / Night Mirror w/Homelink, Moonroof, Leather Trimmed Upholstery, Faux Leather Door Trim, 6 Way Power Driver's Seat, Heated Seats, Lumbar Support, Fog Lamps, Heated Mirrors) add $3,355 ($27,988)
Mini Cooper S (MSRP)
Base - $19,849 (-$4,784)
W/ metalic paint, sport, premium, leather, HK stereo & heated seats - $24,969 (-$3,019)
Realistically, if I get the mini, I will go with the least options possible. I will get a non-metalic color (compromise since I like the BRG), leatherette seats, and I will add only the DSC, parktronic and front & rear fogs - around $21K.
With the RX-8, you can not get leather without the GT package, so in the end I will be getting options I do not really want, but I will be getting more nonetheless.
>>Apples to Oranges comparison, period. The RX8 is a very nice car and the Rotary 1.3L engine is a technological gem, but this car is a totally different beast from the MINI, beginning with its RWD configuration and typical GT car tuning and styling. The MINI Cooper S in "Base" form is $8K to $10K cheaper than a base RX8.
>>
>>A fair comparison would be a Cooper S vs a Focus SVT or a Nissan 350Z to a Mazda RX8.
>>
>>If I had to choose between the RX8 and the 350Z, I would pick the Mazda anyday of the week.
>>
>>the MINI is a fun FWD "Pocket Rocket" with incredible handling that matches or even surpasses the handling dynamics of pricier RWD cars. the MINI has "Persona" something missing from most anything made in Japan, Inc.
>>
>>The back seat in the RX8 is pretty tight in despite of the rear suicide doors.
>>
>>Resale value goes to the MINI hands down. these cars are fetching obscenely high prices in the used car market and in used car auctions. You won't see Mazdas there.
>>
>>If your priorities are super fast acceleration and mucho horsepower, then the Mazda is better suited to you, but if absolute fun to drive, character, cool factor, incredible handling, resale value and German roadcar feel are important to you, then a Cooper S will be right up your alley.
>>
>>You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,344
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From: Uniontown, PA
I'm not very informed about the RX-8 but, a guy at work has one. Although he likes it, he tells me that there are MANY problems cropping up with the engine and Mazda has been replacing them in droves. Thats all I know. Suggest you may want to check the various mazda forums. Then again, look at all the stuff posted here about the problems with the mini. Didn't stop me from getting an 04 mcs and I LOVE MY MINI.
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 112
Likes: 11
From: St. Petersburg, FL
I checked out the RX-8 at the Miami Auto Show. I was very impressed. The back seats had as much or more room than my MCS. The were much easier to get in and out of.
That said, I'd have to pass on it. I agree that it competes in the arena of the 350Z, Infinity G35 and so on. I just think the MINI is more interesting. Most of the RX-8's I've seen are being driven by guy's that may have owned 280Z's, 350Z's, Corvettes and other gold chain and pinky ring type rides. Not the RX-7 crowd.
I'll take the MCS and be me.
That said, I'd have to pass on it. I agree that it competes in the arena of the 350Z, Infinity G35 and so on. I just think the MINI is more interesting. Most of the RX-8's I've seen are being driven by guy's that may have owned 280Z's, 350Z's, Corvettes and other gold chain and pinky ring type rides. Not the RX-7 crowd.
I'll take the MCS and be me.
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 0
From: Lakeside, CA
Just my thought:
why a big discount/no down/0%/ etc vs MSRP or over
Like the restaurant I go to in New Orleans 2 to 2 1/2 hour wait vs some guy on the street at another restaurant with a menu saying, "Come on it".
Earl
why a big discount/no down/0%/ etc vs MSRP or over
Like the restaurant I go to in New Orleans 2 to 2 1/2 hour wait vs some guy on the street at another restaurant with a menu saying, "Come on it".
Earl
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,241
Likes: 0
From: USA
I just bought my 3rd S about two weeks ago. Today I looked at an RX8.
There were actually about 10 of them at the dealership. I liked the look
of the RX7 but this 8.....something just doesn't look right. I didn't even
have a desire to test drive it unlike when I looked at an S2000.
The RX8 kind of reminded me of a Z4. Not even nice to look at.
IMHO.
There were actually about 10 of them at the dealership. I liked the look
of the RX7 but this 8.....something just doesn't look right. I didn't even
have a desire to test drive it unlike when I looked at an S2000.
The RX8 kind of reminded me of a Z4. Not even nice to look at.
IMHO.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
Likes: 0
>>If the price difference were that big, I would not have a dilemma. The mini would be a clear winner in my book. However, as far as I can tell, there are no discounts on the mini. I can get severl $$ off the RX-8 without mych efforts through a discount plan at work (the S-plan) which brings the RX-8 very close to the mini. Here are the numbers:
>>
>>RX-8 (S-plan)
>>Base - $24,633
>>w/ GT package (Xenon Headlights, DSC w/Traction Control, Bose Audio, Auto Day / Night Mirror w/Homelink, Moonroof, Leather Trimmed Upholstery, Faux Leather Door Trim, 6 Way Power Driver's Seat, Heated Seats, Lumbar Support, Fog Lamps, Heated Mirrors) add $3,355 ($27,988)
>>
>>Mini Cooper S (MSRP)
>>Base - $19,849 (-$4,784)
>>W/ metalic paint, sport, premium, leather, HK stereo & heated seats - $24,969 (-$3,019)
>>
>>Realistically, if I get the mini, I will go with the least options possible. I will get a non-metalic color (compromise since I like the BRG), leatherette seats, and I will add only the DSC, parktronic and front & rear fogs - around $21K.
>>
>>With the RX-8, you can not get leather without the GT package, so in the end I will be getting options I do not really want, but I will be getting more nonetheless.
>>
>>>>Apples to Oranges comparison, period. The RX8 is a very nice car and the Rotary 1.3L engine is a technological gem, but this car is a totally different beast from the MINI, beginning with its RWD configuration and typical GT car tuning and styling. The MINI Cooper S in "Base" form is $8K to $10K cheaper than a base RX8.
>>>>
>>>>A fair comparison would be a Cooper S vs a Focus SVT or a Nissan 350Z to a Mazda RX8.
>>>>
>>>>If I had to choose between the RX8 and the 350Z, I would pick the Mazda anyday of the week.
>>>>
>>>>the MINI is a fun FWD "Pocket Rocket" with incredible handling that matches or even surpasses the handling dynamics of pricier RWD cars. the MINI has "Persona" something missing from most anything made in Japan, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>The back seat in the RX8 is pretty tight in despite of the rear suicide doors.
>>>>
>>>>Resale value goes to the MINI hands down. these cars are fetching obscenely high prices in the used car market and in used car auctions. You won't see Mazdas there.
>>>>
>>>>If your priorities are super fast acceleration and mucho horsepower, then the Mazda is better suited to you, but if absolute fun to drive, character, cool factor, incredible handling, resale value and German roadcar feel are important to you, then a Cooper S will be right up your alley.
>>>>
>>>>You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
>>
True, but remember that the resale value of the MINI justifies the initial admission price. I am not so sure the RX8 will still be worth 50% of its original value after 5 years of use.
>>
>>RX-8 (S-plan)
>>Base - $24,633
>>w/ GT package (Xenon Headlights, DSC w/Traction Control, Bose Audio, Auto Day / Night Mirror w/Homelink, Moonroof, Leather Trimmed Upholstery, Faux Leather Door Trim, 6 Way Power Driver's Seat, Heated Seats, Lumbar Support, Fog Lamps, Heated Mirrors) add $3,355 ($27,988)
>>
>>Mini Cooper S (MSRP)
>>Base - $19,849 (-$4,784)
>>W/ metalic paint, sport, premium, leather, HK stereo & heated seats - $24,969 (-$3,019)
>>
>>Realistically, if I get the mini, I will go with the least options possible. I will get a non-metalic color (compromise since I like the BRG), leatherette seats, and I will add only the DSC, parktronic and front & rear fogs - around $21K.
>>
>>With the RX-8, you can not get leather without the GT package, so in the end I will be getting options I do not really want, but I will be getting more nonetheless.
>>
>>>>Apples to Oranges comparison, period. The RX8 is a very nice car and the Rotary 1.3L engine is a technological gem, but this car is a totally different beast from the MINI, beginning with its RWD configuration and typical GT car tuning and styling. The MINI Cooper S in "Base" form is $8K to $10K cheaper than a base RX8.
>>>>
>>>>A fair comparison would be a Cooper S vs a Focus SVT or a Nissan 350Z to a Mazda RX8.
>>>>
>>>>If I had to choose between the RX8 and the 350Z, I would pick the Mazda anyday of the week.
>>>>
>>>>the MINI is a fun FWD "Pocket Rocket" with incredible handling that matches or even surpasses the handling dynamics of pricier RWD cars. the MINI has "Persona" something missing from most anything made in Japan, Inc.
>>>>
>>>>The back seat in the RX8 is pretty tight in despite of the rear suicide doors.
>>>>
>>>>Resale value goes to the MINI hands down. these cars are fetching obscenely high prices in the used car market and in used car auctions. You won't see Mazdas there.
>>>>
>>>>If your priorities are super fast acceleration and mucho horsepower, then the Mazda is better suited to you, but if absolute fun to drive, character, cool factor, incredible handling, resale value and German roadcar feel are important to you, then a Cooper S will be right up your alley.
>>>>
>>>>You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
>>
True, but remember that the resale value of the MINI justifies the initial admission price. I am not so sure the RX8 will still be worth 50% of its original value after 5 years of use.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 413
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From: Bahstun, MA
<snip>
>>You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
This is an interesting thought, haven't seen this on the board b4. Anyone out there done this? Thoughts on performance? Does this bring you up to a base level MCS level? What else might you give up? (aside from the obvious option pkgs)
>>You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
This is an interesting thought, haven't seen this on the board b4. Anyone out there done this? Thoughts on performance? Does this bring you up to a base level MCS level? What else might you give up? (aside from the obvious option pkgs)
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
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>><snip>
>>>>You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
>>
>>This is an interesting thought, haven't seen this on the board b4. Anyone out there done this? Thoughts on performance? Does this bring you up to a base level MCS level? What else might you give up? (aside from the obvious option pkgs)
>>
If you opt for a bare bones MCS you will be missing out also on the front fog lights, the MFSW and that's about it. I think some people have bought base MCS and have added the JCW package. It can be done.
>>>>You may even consider a basic Cooper S and just add the JCW package and you will still be $3K-$4K ahead of the Mazda RX8.
>>
>>This is an interesting thought, haven't seen this on the board b4. Anyone out there done this? Thoughts on performance? Does this bring you up to a base level MCS level? What else might you give up? (aside from the obvious option pkgs)
>>
If you opt for a bare bones MCS you will be missing out also on the front fog lights, the MFSW and that's about it. I think some people have bought base MCS and have added the JCW package. It can be done.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
>>My requirements for a car are that it be sporty, suitable for auto-x, and would fit 2 adults and 2 kids in child seats for short trips. Both the mini and RX-8 suit that purpose just fine.
>>
>>Any additional thoughts/suggestions?
I've been reading tons of info on AutoX, and find that the base MC does better in its class than the MCS, if your object is to beat other cars and not just your own time. A modded MCS or JCW is still in a pretty difficult class HP wise and rarely wins.
The RX-8 offers too little HP to tempt me.
Since you're looking for a daily driver/AutoX car I suggest the Subaru Impreza WRX wagon. It is still small but large on the inside, doesn't draw the cops' eyes, and is a better daily driver comfort wise than either the MCS, RX-8 or 350z track, and can be had easily for 25k.
Check out this Edmunds review:
Edmunds Review WRX Wagon
Of course, it will never have the cachet of the MINI!
>>
>>Any additional thoughts/suggestions?
I've been reading tons of info on AutoX, and find that the base MC does better in its class than the MCS, if your object is to beat other cars and not just your own time. A modded MCS or JCW is still in a pretty difficult class HP wise and rarely wins.
The RX-8 offers too little HP to tempt me.
Since you're looking for a daily driver/AutoX car I suggest the Subaru Impreza WRX wagon. It is still small but large on the inside, doesn't draw the cops' eyes, and is a better daily driver comfort wise than either the MCS, RX-8 or 350z track, and can be had easily for 25k.
Check out this Edmunds review:
Edmunds Review WRX Wagon
Of course, it will never have the cachet of the MINI!
I was truly tempted by the looks of the RX-8, but some research really put the current version of the car out of the running for me...
Mazda had claimed 250hp, but later had to revise that to 238; currently, no one with an RX-8 has seen that on a dyno, more like 210-220 (best guess is some really odd ecu maping to get the car to pass north american emissions - tuners are talking 270 easily with some mods like exhausted and ecu remapping). Not quite as much fun to drive as the mini, handling-wise, imo. Maybe eventually it'll be a good choice for me as a third car (hey, it gets to be danged wintery here and I still want to keep the mini!), but until I see what problems crop up in the first year or so, I'm reluctant to leap into getting one.
Mazda had claimed 250hp, but later had to revise that to 238; currently, no one with an RX-8 has seen that on a dyno, more like 210-220 (best guess is some really odd ecu maping to get the car to pass north american emissions - tuners are talking 270 easily with some mods like exhausted and ecu remapping). Not quite as much fun to drive as the mini, handling-wise, imo. Maybe eventually it'll be a good choice for me as a third car (hey, it gets to be danged wintery here and I still want to keep the mini!), but until I see what problems crop up in the first year or so, I'm reluctant to leap into getting one.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
You can get a Lancer Evo 8 for 29K. It will leave both the MCS and
the RX-8 in the dust on any race track in any country.
Brembo big brakes, limited slip, AWD, steering even quicker
than an MCS all come standard, together with orthopedic Recaro seats.
Bora
the RX-8 in the dust on any race track in any country.
Brembo big brakes, limited slip, AWD, steering even quicker
than an MCS all come standard, together with orthopedic Recaro seats.
Bora
Banned
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,399
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From: Berkeley, CA
>>Since you're looking for a daily driver/AutoX car I suggest the Subaru Impreza WRX wagon. It is still small but large on the inside, doesn't draw the cops' eyes, and is a better daily driver comfort wise than either the MCS, RX-8 or 350z track, and can be had easily for 25k.
I drove one of these for a weekend recently and hated it. The only compliment I can give it was that it pulled well once the turbo spun up. Otherwise, compared to the Mini, it drove like a truck. Imprecise and ponderous. No thanks!
I drove one of these for a weekend recently and hated it. The only compliment I can give it was that it pulled well once the turbo spun up. Otherwise, compared to the Mini, it drove like a truck. Imprecise and ponderous. No thanks!
Thread Starter
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Neutral
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8
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This one really got me wondering. Seems there are quite a few 2003 leftovers and they could be had for close to $26K. That in no way helps me to make a decision though. I guess I just crossed out the RX-8 and added the EVO to the list.
>>You can get a Lancer Evo 8 for 29K. It will leave both the MCS and
>>the RX-8 in the dust on any race track in any country.
>>
>>Brembo big brakes, limited slip, AWD, steering even quicker
>>than an MCS all come standard, together with orthopedic Recaro seats.
>>
>>
>>Bora
>>
>>You can get a Lancer Evo 8 for 29K. It will leave both the MCS and
>>the RX-8 in the dust on any race track in any country.
>>
>>Brembo big brakes, limited slip, AWD, steering even quicker
>>than an MCS all come standard, together with orthopedic Recaro seats.
>>
>>
>>Bora
>>
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
From: bristow va
My comment is abotu the Space issue, not speed or sport: Don't belive for a moment that the rx-8 has more "space" you need to go sit in one.. the back seats feel like your in a childs seat, or maybe an old wodden rollercoaster, ( btw the S has the child safty stuff built in) My best freind got an rx-8 it's super fast and a lot of fun, but there is actually a LOT more space in the mini, and the space is more versatile that the space in an rx-8, I ws really hopping the rx-8 would have more space than compareable sportcars, and while it does for the most part, it really isn't as much as has been touted, drive em both, or at elast sit em
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: bristow va
BTW, if you test drive a RX-8 don't forget to change gears at 6000 rpms, I was told by multiple dealers and drivers that the rotory engine in that car is supposed to be driven that way to compare to a sports car that would normally would shift at 3000.. adn a not eon the engine, the rx7 engein had quite a few flaws, adn even soem that people only thoguht it had, rotories actually have better fuel to power economy than any other type of engine, (which is why moeller uses them in it's sky car), plus they're better for the environment (rx-7) excluded... there are only a couple of engine manufactures out there working with rotory so the old biases stille exist, but if you research it a bit more you'll find that when more companies pick up the idea of teh rotory yoru goifn to see some awsoem vehicles on the road.. my question is, if the rotory of an rx-8 is so small than why did they put it in such a huge engine bay! Just rember to get those revs up to 6k
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The EVO is an impressive machine, but I can't get over the $30K+ sticker price for what essentially is a beefed up Mitsu Lancer sedan (And the looks are very AZtekish for my taste)still contend the MCS is a hard to beat deal for $19K-$20K base admission price.
I am glad to see that the small car market is heating up each year with very good contenders in the class.
Before plunking all that hard cash on an EVO, make sure that that car will hold its resale value once the initial appeal has wore off.
A base MCS with JCW still $5K cheaper than a base EVO.
I am glad to see that the small car market is heating up each year with very good contenders in the class.
Before plunking all that hard cash on an EVO, make sure that that car will hold its resale value once the initial appeal has wore off.
A base MCS with JCW still $5K cheaper than a base EVO.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 225
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From: Pensacola FL
I sure hope that Mazda has done something to the Apex seals on those motors... My bro is the pres of the regional RX-7 club and between him and all his buddies I have seen SO many blown apex seals, and scarred rotor housings as a result. If you tweak those cars up the apex seals go like eggrolls on the buffet....
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Also if you don't mind low resale value and possible shoddy build quality, then check out the Dodge Neon SRT sedan. That thing has pretty respectable handling and acceleration for $20K, but you are still getting a Dodge Neon in terms of looks, build quality and resale.