This will be pertaining to the MCS
I hate the frequent oil threads just as much as the next guy so hopefully this one won't be one like those ...
I'm the kind of **** retentive type that has to know that the oil in the car is up to par vs blindly choosin an arbitrary OCI and oil.
I've spent the better part of yesterday looking up what type of oil people generally go with in their MCS, what their experience is, etc. This is a new car for me, got it just a few days ago so I'm just trying to lay some groundwork and get direction for my next change. I was somewhat disappointed to not see a whole LOT of results (not even on BITOG) involving my choice of oil, which is Pennzoil Platinum.
At one point I'll do a UOA on PP in my Mini but I want to run at least a couple of OCIs beforehand.
From what I was able to find out is that PP does not meet ACEA 3, but it is an ACEA 5, is that correct? I've also read that it does not meet the BMW Longlife standard so basically if I use PP, I shouldn't expect it to last the 15K miles as indicated by the service computer.
Why Pennzoil Platinum? While I know it's just "bad science" to compare two engines from two different manufacturers, I do have plenty of first hand experience that tells me it is a very robust oil. Subject in question is my Stage 2 Subaru Legacy GT. This Boxer absolutely killed Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic in short order (3K miles). Once the oil was trashed, it started hammering the engine and allowed higher than normal wear. I've run 3 different OCIs on M1. 5K in winter, 4K in summer and 3K in fall. All came back consistently high in wear.
I then tried GC 0w30. While the oil did a LOT better (it basically reduced wear metals in half with the first change) I did not like the oil due to several reasons:
-engine was noisier than M1
-did not allow for longer OCIs than M1
-too spendy for what I was getting
Instead I was recommended PP 10w30. The reason for the 10w was to better fight fuel dillution. My oils were getting sheared down so 10w30 would allow the oil to shear down to a 5w30 and still do a great job at protecting the engine. I've done two OCIs, the 3rd coming up, and all came back looking great. 10w30 was even OK to run in Nebraska winters.
I know that MINIUSA states PP European formula is OK to use but that's not really an option for me since it's next to impossible to find around here AND quite spendy. I can get a 5quart jug of PP at Walmart for $20.
So basically I wanted to "park" this thread and hopefully follow up with a UOA on PP. In the meantime I wanted to see what kind of new feedback I would receive since I have read every single thread (seriously) on NAM that as much as made mention of Pennzoil.
Thanks and hopefully this thread won't be a nuisance.

 

Well hate to dissappoint you, but this is going to turn into one of "those" threads.....

best advice.......go with the product that makes you feel comfortable with your decision. Don't base it on others opinions, even with data to back up their decision. Each engine is going to be just different enough (from OEM tolerances to build quality to mods) that you are going to get vastly different results from any analysis.

Now for myself I have been using M1 5w30 and from my few analysis' it has performed well for my car with changes at around 5K. I am tempted to switch to the 0w40 and see if the additives will give any improvements for me.

Sounds like price is also a concern. I would recommend you start out with an oil you are comfortable with, have it analized, and go from there. I strongly believe that with the proper oil changes, as long as the oil is providing the protection, any brand is good. It would be up to you to decide which one provides the best bang for the buck.

 

The current fill from the dealer (bought the car used) is M1 50w30 syn. I plan on running this oil for 5K and then switching to PP. I may not have a UOA for a while :(

 

Unless there is something drastically wrong with the car, you should be fine with proper oil/filter changes.

 

What I don't understand in your comparison and rant is that while you experimented with different oil brands, your comparisons are with different oil weight with each oil brand. how can you come to any conclusions if not comparing equals ??

Let's see...I have used Mobil 1 5W-40 in two Hondas, an Odyssey with 150K miles and the Prelude with over 163K miles and have had no issues changing the oil at around 7500-8000 miles. So.......maybe the issue is not so much wioth your oil but with your Subaru. Rcmd get a Honda.

 

Easy. The goal was to bring down wear to where it was supposed to be. The goal was to find an oil that no matter what grade, would fight fuel dillution well and protect the engine throughout the OCI. While the "winter" viscosity was not the same across the board, the operating temp was roughly the same since I was running 30-weight oil across the board. We did not even try 5w30 Pennzoil and went straight to 10w because based on the past results, we were sure to see some heavy shearing. Even though GC was thinner than PP, it still didn't do as good of a job at protecting during the colder early winter months. I get what you are saying, the question is how would have 5w30 PP fared instead of the 10w? The answer is I don't care because that wasn't the goal. I would have gladly tried 5w30 Castrol but I don't think the GC comes in that version. The Extended Performance version of M1 consistently gets good results but I don't see why I would pay the premium for it if a cheaper oil gets the job done.
This is just a fracture of the bigger picture though. I'd post the UOAs but I'm lazy and I don't have them handy. The point is that PP did better in just about all regards. Flashpoint, TAN, TBN, etc etc, not just wear levels. In other words, PP did what it was supposed to do and that is protect the engine while taking the beating and in the end it still had more life than the other oils.
It can't be argued that viscosity was what enabled it to protect better. IF that were the case, then everything else besides the wear metals would have been at least just as good on the other oils. The fact of the matter is that they were not.
I sincerely doubt the stock MCS blown 1.6 4 cyl is harsher on oil than my modded Boxer running right around 18.5 PSI starting at 2600rpm. And of course I will be doing the UOAs to back that up.

The issue was and is fuel dillution. Consistently over 1%. It's not the engine, it's the operating environment or a combo of both. The Boxer is in tip-top shape, it was just a matter of finding an oil that offered a good balance of quality/price. If price wasn't the factor, I'd have gone straight to Amsoil, RLI or the like. I don't cut corners, but you start from the bottom up, not the other way around.
I was gonna throw a witty comment, but I don't want the thread to turn into a flamewar

 

Sorry but this comment was WAY out of line!!
Let the flaming begin cause the only thing that will be flaming on this forum is a honda!!

I rcmd this only if your a sheeple as it will most certainly lower the fun factor of driving as well as give you an almost unending, uncontrollable desire to drive off a cliff!!

OMG how dare you even suggest a Mini owner lower themselves to that standard of car! You know why so many gang bangers drive hondas? It's urban camouflage!! You will just blend in with the masses, and if you find yourself struggling with individuality, don't go there cause you will only be polishing a turd!!

BTW I use AMSoil!!! It's second to none, for a few dollars more it's worth it!!

 

AMSoil is great stuff, I have a local dealer from which I picked up some Amsoil Severe Gear for my Subie diffs and it was priced on par with the likes of Mobil 1, Valvoline and Pennzoil gear oils. So I came out ahead when you consider the quality.
However, their oil is not particularly cheap. I'd end up paying over 40 bucks. If PP doesn't cut it, I'll be looking at alternatives.

 

Well... first of all... let the bickering begin...(you know what I'm talking about )

Back on topic. I've used Castrol Syntec 5w30 in both my R50 and R56 religiously. I love the stuff, personally.

 

Red Line 5w30, NAPA 7303 filters changed every 3500-4000. UOA says I could up that to 6500 if I want.
Coming up on 179,000 miles with no issues.

Jim

 

BITOG UOAs point that Syntec is not the same as GC, with GC coming out ahead quite a bit. It's a good oil though a bit hard to find. If I were to go with Castrol, I'd go with the "real deal".

I think my original post was not that clear I was hoping to get some insight from those that use PP and did not already post elsewhere on this board.

 

Heard a lot of good things about Red Line too. Their tranny fluid is the shiz, so I would expect their oil is pretty awesome, too.

 

Werd.

 

I don't think the Mini engine is as hard on oil as your boxer engine in the Subie.

You may want to move up to M1 5w-40, do an analysis at 7500 miles... then go from there.

I'd stay within the approved oils if warranty has not expired.

 

M1 5w40 is indeed a robust oil, I'll check pricing. Warranty is long gone.

 

Good idea but I have not seen much discussion on PP here.
I think your approach is correct but as you are already seeing you are likely to just get opinions and not facts here. Good people giving what they think is good advice but not a lot of data. (including me, I have no data).
Good luck

 

Then you've got nothing to worry about. Just use what yields the best result for the money.

Keep in mind that some M1 (especially 0w-40) shears out of grade around 3-4000 miles and thickens back about 5-6000 miles. As long as an oil holds down the average wear rate, then you're golden.

 

Okay...given you have read every post on oil....and must be plenty and so far based on posting responses received - no addl real data being offered, have you by chance checked out any other car forums to see what oil has worked for them ? Probably not going to yield what you want since it may be comparing apples to oranges but other than experiment or go with what you know has worked for you in the past, seems like it will be hard to come up with convincing data.

 

Sorry Fish seems like no one is mentioning PP in this thread either.

btw: I run Red Line fluids for engine, tranny, and coolant additive, and drive a 52 mile round trip to pick them up every 6 months, and I don't consider that **** retentive, even at $11.95 a quart of oil.

btw2: is fishbone any reference to 80s alt rock band, seen them in 88 or 89?open up for the Cure.

 

**** retentive would be buying for 12 months (or more) and not wasting 52 miles + time.

 

OLarryR: I'm fairly familiar with what oils others use even on other boards and other cars. There's plenty evidence PP holds up to harsh operating conditions which is what prompted me to try it in the first place. After UOAs on my other car I have confirmed the same thing and sticking to it. I was hoping I'd get more specifics on this board but it looks like I might be the one laying some groundwork

howsoonisnow1985: no relation to the rockband, it's after the German fishbone clothing brand, used to be a big fan back in the day and the nickname stuck.

Thanks everyone for your input so far on this.

 

Just ry the PP and get it tested. Only way you are going to find out if it meets your expectations.

And it does sound like your Subie has a problem if you were/are battling a fuel dilution problem.

 

^Boxer engines are prone to fuel dillution. It's a "design thing" on top of which you add that one of the stock injectors is prone to drip upon shutdown. I just haven't had the chance to pull them and do a test, plus the fact that it's a relatively minor thing. The car is running spotless, the tune looks great. All IDCs (injector duty cycle) are consistent, no roughness popping up in logs, no misfiring, nothing. Basically in the tuner software, logs and on the street everything looks OK so it really comes down to pulling each injector and visually/mechanically testing them off the engine.
Trust me when I say that I've done the legwork

 

It still means you were battling a problem. Not something that should be a concern with the MINI.

 

You are correct, the only possible concern is how the oil will hold up to the engine, being FI. A test will confirm