One month ago I was going to get a item (https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...uct/528/cat/22 ) on the marketplace but right after I sent payment and talking with seller I noticed it was not what I thought it was. So I asked for refund not a big deal. And seller agreed.
After a few weeks and no refund or reply to emails from seller I made a paypal claim.
After a few weeks of talking with seller with paypal watching and still no refund. I handed it over to paypal to handle. This is what I got back from Paypal..

Dear Richard Gregg,

After careful review, we have concluded our investigation of the Buyer
Complaint described below.

We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery
of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.

Please know that we will make our best effort to recover the funds in
question if they become available in the seller's account in the future and
will take appropriate action against the seller. Such action may include
issuing a warning, a temporary restriction, or terminating the account.
Keep in mind that PayPal uses a number of factors to determine when to take
action, including member complaints. Due to privacy laws, we cannot discuss
the details of any action taken. We hope you understand our policy and that
it assures you that you are safe using PayPal.


-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------


Seller's Name: jason watters
Seller's Email: jaseric29@aol.com
Seller's Transaction ID: 02E85637R51361351

Transaction Date: Aug 17, 2008
Transaction Amount: -$80.00 USD
Your Transaction ID: 2X568395MB841720X
Case Number: PP-535-695-635

Buyer's Transaction ID: 2X568395MB841720X



-----------------------------------
What to Do Next
-----------------------------------

This case is now closed. No further action is required by you at this time.


-----------------------------------
Other Details
-----------------------------------

To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click the Security Center link located at the bottom of any
page. There you will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the
"Fraud Prevention Tips for Buyers" section.

Sincerely,
PayPal
Protection Services Department

 

Yeah thats a bummer. That's why I link my PayPal to my credit card. Then when PayPal fails the CC company can step in. I've had a couple transactions where this worked favorably and none where it didn't.

 

I do that also however this was money that was in my account from selling a few items on the marketplace.

 

I'm sorry to hear what happened. 2 years ago I bout a seat of seat for my Integra for 700 bucks off eBay and got ripped off. PayPal only refunded me 200 and then took 25 as a "service fee", and told me it was the sellers responsibility to get me the rest of my refund.... It still makes me mad to this day, PayPAl is such a scam

 

I never use money in my Paypal account to purchase anything. When I sell something I transfer the full amount into my checking account immediately on receipt. Any purchases I make via Paypal are funded via a credit card.

 

I am a power seller and this Oct i am no longer using it, to many changes for me.

 

The thing is not much you can do.....small claims..but thats a hasssel

 

I found paypal to be utterly intrusive and useless. If a seller can't accept dealing with a credit card I go elsewhere.

 

the new changes in Oct make it so everyone has to use paypal,no checks or MO, so all of the good deals will be gone, so will stick it Amazon and Buy,com

 

i hate paypal tooo

 

http://paypalsucks.com

 

Had a simular situation and was less than thrilled with PayPals so called protection. That said when I filed the PayPal claim I also told PayPal that I was also going to put the charge in dispute with my credit card that I use on PayPal...... Amazingly the pace and effort made by the vendor and Pay Pal increased dramaticly and I had a resolution (full refund) with in ONE hour...
PS: What they told me first, it could have taken over thirty days. Never forget that with all credit cards you can put any charge in dispute and all funds be frozen for 90 days from purchase. This meant that PayPal would not have been credited with the funds so they really wanted to retreive them from the vendor when it was going to be their nickle laying there....

 

Yes, I'm considering legal action not as much for the money but for the principle of his actions. However a nice road trip may be a more pleasurable action. I have not got the mini out on a long trip yet so thats a very good option. The guys personal info is on the web http://reg.tsin.com/query/queryDispl...ve&nercID=4245
in a few places so not hard to look him up.

What pisses me off the most is it was not a random ebay scammer or rip off but a NAM member. Minis should not be sold to bad evil people but I'm sure karma will find justice in the end.

 

Well this sounds like the seller never had an intent to fulfill the deal. Where I come from that is called criminal fraud. This is NOT a civil dispute, where, for example, you bought something, it's defective and the seller refuses to give a refund. This is a crime. The seller did not send the item and kept the money he conned you out of. Since PayPal was used, arguably the seller committed credit card fraud [you can at least allege this in a criminal complaint.]

See where the local law enforcement is located, for where he lives. Then e-mail him.

Tell him you have contacted local law enforcement [tell him the address and phone number for the PD or Sheriff so he can see you are serious]. Tell him if he does not return the stolen money within so many days, you will file a complaint with his local PD.

I have done that a few times, got my money back within about 24 hours.

By the way, local law enforcement will take a report and if it's a small town will even pay the criminal a visit. They may even arrest him.

 

BUMMER man, Like many on this post my paypal is linked to my card. It was my belief that thats how it had to be? I always carry a 0 balance as I tend to buy more than sell. PayPal has ALWAYS worked for me and has always been convient way to pay. However if I plan on purchasing something big, I straight use my Credit card. A recent transaction went unfilled for a product, 2 calls later; (seller, and my BANK) I had the purchase amount back in my account.
I guess a rule learned is ALways read the advertisement carefully.

 

Keep in mind that using a credit card will not always protect you. Once your money hits the sellers account, if he pulls it out by transferring it to his bank account and then withdraws it, leaving both his PayPal and bank account empty, there is no way for your CC company or PayPal to recover the money.

However, if the seller has linked a CC to his account, your CC company can charge his. At least I think that's the way it works.

 

I have been with www.paypalsucks.com since its beginning days, back when PayPal tried to get them to stop using the PayPal name on the Site. PayPal lost.

About six years ago I stopped having PayPal linked to a bank account. And based on what I learned on PayPalSucks I closed the bank account because PayPal could still have access to it.

Now I have a $350 credit limit card linked to it. That protects me as a buyer and seller from PayPal's draconian, misleading policies.

And as a seller I don't let money sit with PayPal. I withdraw money immediately with my PayPal ATM/Debit card.

Having been on eBay since 1997 and PayPal since 1999 [or whenever they started] I can agree.... PayPal sucks. If it was not so convenient I would not use it at all.

 

PayPal can suck, big time ...but, believe it or not, once in a while they can be okay.

I recently sold something to a fellow in the UK who wanted me to lie about the value on the customs form so that he would not have to pay duty. It was a $300 item and there was no way I was sending it without insurance. So, I could not claim a lower value. Plus, I just don't do that as its illegal and morally wrong.

So, the guy gets whacked with a small duty fee and says he's going to return the item because he does not feel like paying the fee. I told him I was not going to refund his postage, which was more than the duty fee, so he may as well keep it. But he was insistent. I told PayPal about it and they paid the duty fee to make the problem go away. I was shocked.

As a frequent seller, I keep my PayPal account empty at all times. I have it linked to a bank account which is right near my office, but which is NOT my primary bank. When money hits my PayPal account I instantly transfer it to my bank and when it hits my bank I walk next door and get it. Then I deposit it into my primary bank.

All of these shenanigans suck, but you have to protect yourself. In my experience, there are just as many unscrupulous buyers out there as sellers.

 

Excellent post and all accurate. I had someone make that duty free request on an eBay sale. Told him no way since I would end up sending it uninsured and the risk would fall on me if there were problems. [Was a $1200 sale.]

And on eBay's feedback forum I read about a seller who got a negative [that eBay ultimately refused to remove.] Reason posted for the neg... the buyer said seller refused to put a lower amount on the UK custom's declaration form. So even though the buyer's feedback comment admitted to the buyer's wrongdoing [said the neg was because the seller would not lie on the customs form], eBay still would not remove the neg.

As a result of all this, on eBay I don't allow international sales. People ask for exceptions, I post why there are no longer any exceptions, including I don't want to risk getting a neg when they ask me to lie on customs forms and I don't.

Oh, by the way, on that post about the neg, people looked up the law. It's actually not a crime in the U. S. because the lying on the duty form cheats the buyer's country, not the U. S. So the U. S. could give a rip.

But in the U. K. [the buyer's country] they say that if in Custom's opinion the item's value is a lie, as a penalty they will confiscate the item. Of course, in that situation the buyer will then neg the seller for non-receipt and will get a refund from PayPal. Once again, a loss to the seller even though the buyer is the dishonest one.

 

I haven't read every post. but there is a class action lawsuit that paypal.ebay has agreed to settle. Add your name to the list, if you qualify, and you'll receive part of the settlement. They contacted me a few weeks ago about it from an issue i had back in 2004.

also, Contact your attorney general...If you can get the persons address, usually a letter like that will scare the person into complying. It worked for me in the past....they sent a letter stating they were going to pursue legal actions, but it didnt have to come to that.

 

The seller comited a criminal act of larceny under $250.00, as you did not receive the merchandise and further communications yeilded no satisfaction. Therefore, the intent to permanently deprive you of the $80.00US is easily established for probable cause in a criminal complaint. File a complaint in your local district court, and a summons would eventually be dispatched upon the seller.

If the summons to appear is ignored by the seller/defendant, a capias warrant could be issued, and their drivers license would be suspended until the defendant was arrested and criminal complaint satisfied.

Many states now have a reciprocal agreement to handle these matter in such a way in susp of drivers licenese even across state lines.....

Good luck, keep us posted.

and BTW: Why haven't you posted some NEG Feed back on this guy ?

Meantime everyone should take notice of this chracter and

ADMIN should BAN the seller's ISP from this server

 

I just sent his local Police department all the information. I'm sure if/when they contact him it will motivate him to refund my money.

I just got a email from paypal to fill out a online survey to let them know how happy I am with the outcome... LOL

 

I just sent Jason a email and let him know I contacted his local police and sent them the information. Hes not very good at returning to emails so will wait and see.

Any Mini owners close to Noblesville Indiana that can go by and pick up my refund?

 

I have now left feedback but he has not used his NAM account after he got my payment.

 

The seller was or is using AOL for an ISP. Banning the ISP will cause a lot of people not be able to access NAM. We could ban the seller, but not the ISP or the IP address as it will not accomplish anything.