>>>>>>Hey, Illegal aliens will be able to aquire State Issued Driver's licenses soon... I am opposed to that.
I had a 1998 Wrangler TOTALLED after 6 months of ownership, by a working illegal. He had no insurance and fled to South America by all traces and investigations.

O.K., hold on...I may be misunderstanding the meaning of your post but just in case:
I understand why you'd be bummed, but shouldn't you be pissed off at irresponsible drivers with no insurance instead of blaming it on "Illegals"?
Personally I worry more about the Starbuck's sipping, cellphone using, make-up applying, can't see over the dash of my big a$$ Hummer soccer moms than your average undocumented immigrant in a compact econobox.

Regardless of the differing politics or views regarding undocumented aliens, the fact is that a lack of legal resident status doesn't automatically make you a driving moron.

I agree that undocumented aliens shouldn't be issued driver's licences; simply because it seems hypocritical and irresponsible of the government, but not because of a lack of intelligence or competence behind the wheel.
The way I see it, the only difference between me and the rest of the "illegals" on U.S. roads is that I have a piece of paper that took me 23 years to get that calls me a "naturalized citizen"... other than that, we're both immigrants, and we both crossed the same river to get here, except I was fortunate enough to be able to cross it in a Boeing jet instead of an innertube.

Anyway, after 11 years of driving in the States with "alien" status, I have zero accidents and zero tickets on my driving record. Crappy drivers are just that... crappy drivers...and they come in all colors!


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When did "illegal" as a description for those who are in this country in violation of immigration laws become, "undocumented immigrants"? Sounds like political correctness gone wild to me. I don't care how good these folks can or can't drive or how many highway safety signs they can or can't read. There is no "right" to violate a law just because you can.
Since the founding of this country immigration has been something that people from all over the world have often endangered their lives to do....heck, we or our ancestors are all immigrants. However, until fairly recently the laws regulating who can enter the country were respected by most and many spent years to proudly legally become American citizens. Now I'm supposed to be in favor of providing all kinds of "rights" to those who have no respect for our laws and who believe the country they are illegally in owes them something? I don't think so.


Back to the MINIs..............

 

anyway... just wanted to chime in here about GTIs... i drove my friends last night and its a lot more responsive in 1st and especially in 2nd second... it just flies. i like the sound of the turbo as well. the clutch is also a lot higher which is annoying, at least for me, when im on a hill or something.
but anyway when we were driving we saw a parked r32 in yellow. its pretty hot. no so sure about the wheels but it is one sweet car!
but i have one question, someone mentioned reading that the r32 is supposed to be the fastest VW... i thought the turbo S beetle was supposed to be the fastest? can any one show me a comparison or something?
i'd love to see a GTI faster than the turbo s beetle.. thats the way things should be...

 

Hey nomonstersinyou,

I thought the best styling feature of the GTI was the wheels....but then I've always liked wheels with lots of spokes. They are hard to keep clean though. This is just a guess but I'll bet the r32 is faster than the turbo Beetle.

Trade your MINI for one?

 

R32 is not available yet. What you probably saw is the 20th Anniversaary edition GTI

 

>>When did "illegal" as a description for those who are in this country in violation of immigration laws become, "undocumented immigrants"? Sounds like political correctness gone wild to me. I don't care how good these folks can or can't drive or how many highway safety signs they can or can't read. There is no "right" to violate a law just because you can.
>>Since the founding of this country immigration has been something that people from all over the world have often endangered their lives to do....heck, we or our ancestors are all immigrants. However, until fairly recently the laws regulating who can enter the country were respected by most and many spent years to proudly legally become American citizens. Now I'm supposed to be in favor of providing all kinds of "rights" to those who have no respect for our laws and who believe the country they are illegally in owes them something? I don't think so.
>>

Not sure if this post is directed to me, but if it is you clearly misread my previous post. Please read it again.
Not only am I not a supporter of undocumented immigrants recieving driver's licences but I even expressed, very clearly, that I was firmly AGAINST it.
As far as your animosity towards the term "undocumented immigrants", political correctness has nothing to do with it. It's simply a more descriptive, complete term.
"Illegals" is a vague, inappropriate term which could be used to describe any number of individuals breaking the law in any number of ways.

UNDOCUMENTED= Lacking proper documentation (i.e. work visa, greencard or other legal immigration documents).
IMMIGRANT= One who comes to the country from a foreign entity to reside.

Like it or not, "Undocumented Immigrant" is an appropriate, accurate term.
How can you possibly substantiate it as an example of "political correctness gone wild"???
If you simply MUST include their "illegal" status in the term (which is obvious and implied anyway) then go ahead and call them "Illegal Immigrants" if it makes you happier.
The term "Illegals" by itself, however, comes across as vague and uneducated.

I have no idea how or why this thread was sidetracked into a political discussion on immigration. My only point in my previous post was to express that MightyMini'z Wrangler being totalled was the result of an irresponsible ********* driver with no insurance, and that his "immigration status" was in fact secondary to that particular individual's lack of competence and responsibility behind the wheel.
The guy who totalled MightyMini'z Wrangler and then fled did so because he was an irresponsible idiot, not because he was an illegal immigrant.
Nothing more....

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OK, you win. I'm to uneducated to appreciate the difference between "illegal" and "undocumented". Let's just compromise and call them "uninvited guest".

Now tell me how you like your MINI.

 

>>R32 is not available yet. What you probably saw is the 20th Anniversaary edition GTI
yeah it was, i realized that after. still pretty sweet though!

 

I hate it when I start talking politics, especially on an automotive board, but sometimes I just can't help myself. I re-read Calvins post and it deserves a better response. If we're gonna define words such as "undocumented" for the benefit of the uneducated maybe we need to cover "illegal" for the benefit of the educated.

Illegal : not according to or authorized by law, also: not sanctioned by official rules

What part of Webster's definition do you fine vague or not applicable to "illegal immigrants"?

On the other hand, undocumented immigrants makes it sound like a bunch of folks who just "forgot" a small detail on their way to America. Since these folks are undocumented how do we know they would have received permission to come to America if they had just bothered to ask? They've had absolutely no background check to at least attempt to determine if they might be robbers, murderers, rapist or perhaps terrorist. One thing they do all have in common though is that the term "illegal" accurately describes their status. Undocumented assumes they could have been documented if they had bothered to try and this certainly may not be the case. How can this be, as you said, more descriptive?

Being educated in today's upside down world apparently includes making statements which hide the truth in an effort to demonstate how non-judgemental being educated can make one's self.


Back to the cars I hope.

I wiil try very hard to not mention political stuff on this board again...really

 

>>I hate it when I start talking politics, especially on an automotive board, but sometimes I just can't help myself. I re-read Calvins post and it deserves a better response. If we're gonna define words such as "undocumented" for the benefit of the uneducated maybe we need to cover "illegal" for the benefit of the educated.
>>
>>Illegal : not according to or authorized by law, also: not sanctioned by official rules
>>
>>What part of Webster's definition do you fine vague or not applicable to "illegal immigrants"?
>>Being educated in today's upside down world apparently includes making statements which hide the truth in an effort to demonstate how non-judgemental being educated can make one's self.

Okay again you're not reading my posts carefully. I clearly stated that the word "Illegal" when used as an adjective in describing the status of an immigrant was an acceptable term. In fact, here's my exact quote:

"If you simply MUST include their "illegal" status in the term (which is obvious and implied anyway) then go ahead and call them "Illegal Immigrants" if it makes you happier.
The term "Illegals" by itself, however, comes across as vague and uneducated."

So I ask you, How can I be discarding the term "illegal immigrants" as incorrect if I'm expressly affirming my approval of it?
I have no problem with the term "illegal" when utilized as an ADJECTIVE, which of course requires a noun to describe, in this case the word "immigrant" which can in fact be acceptably substituted by "alien" or any other equivalent term.

However, when used as a NOUN, as in "AN ILLEGAL"", the term becomes vague and derogatory.
It is akin to calling any individual with mental retardation "A RETARD".
This is why we see schools for "mentally retarded children" instead of schools for "retards".
Somewhere down the line we realized that their mental retardation does not define who they are, it defines their condition..yet they are still CHILDREN.

Likewise, "illegal immigrants" or "undocumented immigrants" accurately defines these individuals as immigrants (and therefore human beings) while correctly describing their CONDITION as one of unlawful residence.
The term "an illegal" by itself, however, attempts to utilize their CONDITION to define their EXISTENCE, which is historically the basis for many of the derogatory and dehumanizing terms that have been used throughout time, and which we as an educated society have the power to change simply through the adequate use of language.

Adding a simple word such as "immigrant" to a term hides ABSOLUTELY NO TRUTH WHATSOEVER and allows us to express our opinions on illegal immigration, whatever they may be, in a non-derogatory, educated manner.

You mention at the beginning of your post that you hate talking politics on an automotive message board, and I agree. However I don't see how this has anything to do with politics. I never intended, nor do I intend this to become a discussion about the political issues surrounding illegal immigration.
My original point was simply to suggest that MightyMini'z accident should not be blamed on "illegals" in general, in as much as if my girlfriend or sister was raped by a mentally retarded man, I wouldn't blame her misfortune on "retards" in general...Nor would I feel the need to utilize either of those terms, when by simply adding a few more words I can express myself in a more accurate, less derogatory manner.

So just to summarize my views:
"illegal alien", "illegal immigrant","undocumented immigrant","undocumented alien" = Correct terms.
"An Illegal" = Deficient term.

And yes, a return to talking MINIs would be super!





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>>R32 is not available yet. What you probably saw is the 20th Anniversaary edition GTI


yeah dan...thats what i thought..lol

btw....turbo beetle/r32 no comparison nomonsterisinme

r32 ownz

 

>>Also the Focus didn't even come near the MINI in NHTSA crash test. On the 5 mph bumper test cars were tested "Rear into Flat Barrier" and "Rear into Pole." In the first crash category, MINI's damage repair cost was $223, Focus cost was $1,338. In the second crash category, MINI's cost was $639, Focus cost was $1,033.
>>
>>Nuff sed.

I got rear-ended by a Dodge X-tra Cab pick up with a brush guard on the front. Kid driving it was on his cell phone. Busy labor day shopping traffic on a crowded 6 lane road with strip malls on either side combined with cell phones is not a good place for a MINI. But nevertheless, the damage is not nearly as bad as I thought (2,217.00). I later found out the damage to his truck was 1,500.00 because his brush-guard torqued his front end. These Mini's are built really well. Although the kid was a punk being on his cell phone, he did exhibit some courage by later calling me and convincing me that he would pay my out of pocket. He was true to his word and I got a check from him 2 days later. I have to take it back to the dealer next week and leave it with their body shop for 4-5 days. It sucks because I waited almost 5 months for it and just when I've got the motor broken in, I've got to give it up for a little while. But I'll tell you, the car is solid–it's well made and if I were still driving my Escort, I'm sure that truck would have crumpled up the rear like tin foil.

 

>>>>I'll tell you, the car is solid–it's well made and if I were still driving my Escort, I'm sure that truck would have crumpled up the rear like tin foil.

I agree. When I test drove the MCS at my dealer, someone had left it in gear when they parked it, so when I started the engine up, the car lurched forward and slammed into a brick wall pretty hard. Amazingly, zero damage to the front end! My pride, however, was slightly dented.