Did anyone catch this month's CR, in which they compared the MINI (MCS not available at time of test), SVT Focus, Turbo Beetle, etc.? From what I gathered, the independent reviewers really liked the MINI, but probably preferred the SVT Focus overall. The styling between the two models certainly doesn't compare - MINI is in its own league. However, the SVT seems to have the edge as far as performance characteristics are concerned. I'm not just talking 0-60 or hp, but handling, braking, overall ride, and fun-factor as well. Any thoughts?

 

Has anyone else driven the Focus and thought it even came close on any level? Please enlighten me!

Cheers!
Clover

 

MCS-MAX,
Welcome to the board.
I haven't seen the article yet but will try to pick up a copy soon.
As for the comparo.... First I think it's rather unfair considering cost. The SVT Focus is roughly a 19K car and is prime for a comparo against the "S".
That said..... The SVT is (from what I've read) a very good performance pkg.
Very well balanced. "But" given the number of recalls and problems the Focus line-up has gone through, I don't see that it's a real bang for your buck anymore.
I think the "S" with it's sports suspension+, 6speed, etc. would be a better comparo.

Again welcome to the site.....
Thanks for bringing up the article.... I'll be looking for it.
Happy Motoring,
SW

 

I like how all the car mags continue to ignore the fact that the Focus has been recalled 9 times for all sorts of reasons.

Pretty unfair too comparing it to just reg MINI. Should have compared to MINI S. The deck was stacked against MINI in that comparison.

 

HighAnxiety,
Money talks..... mags don't..... not when they stand to loose it.
I'm curious as to what comsumers reports said about the recalls. All 9 of them!!
Also heard the other day that there are still 3 open investigations on the Focus.
Happy Motoring,
SW

 

Sfiveten

I haven't read the Consumer Reports yet... but certainly am interested in reading it now.

You're totally right about money talks when it comes to car mags. That pretty much holds true to everything in life.

I don't want to offend Focus drivers or get into the "America autos stink" argument either. I love American autos... my Jeep Wrangler is still my favorite car I have ever had! You would just think after that many recalls from any car made by anyone, they would want to do something about it.

To head this off at the pass:

American autos are just as good as any other (even though the Ford Focus seems to be a real lemon). I'm darn proud of the American/European/and Japanese cars I've owned. Every manufactorer has their lemons... just know which ones to stay away from and your cool.

 

Just one note in Ford's defense. I've had 3 Ford's in the past 10 yrs (2 Mustang GTs and an Escort). They have been perfect - The ONLY non-maintenance repair on any of them was the interior fan shorted out - after my Escort was caught in a flood and almost FULLY submerged in water! Yes, the water went over the windows - the entire hood was underwater (and water was coming into the interior). Anyway, 2 yrs later and 92k miles total - no probs. The exhaust pipe finally rusted out and broke a few months ago. It's funny - I guess I've been lucky. But I see people with Mercedes, BMWs returning their new cars for repairs all of the time - I've never had a problem! :smile:

 

>> ...Has anyone else driven the Focus and thought it even came close on any level?...
>>Clover

No. Well my vote is no. My dad works for FORD, I get an employee discount, I ordered a MINI. I may make a joke once and a while but there are a few domestic cars out there I would'nt mind owning (new Thunderbird comes to mind), but a FORD Focus? No.

 

Ya, how many car companies have been threatened by lawsuits from states (in this case California) due to the unwillingness to do a recall based upon a design flaw? (Starter too close to hot engine parts)... And god, i HATE :evil: the triangle shaped headlights have got to go... they are one of the worst looking designs i have ever seen...

Rocketboy_X

 

I think part of the Focus hype is that you can buy two Focuses (or should that be Foci? ) for the price of a single MINI. Styling and fun factor go to MINI hands down, but I guess they are more concerned with how much you get for your buck. And I'll bet no one on this board would trade their MINI for two Foci!

Jason

 

Right on Brother!

 

I'm a CR subscriber, here are some things the article says about the different cars. First of all, they compared the MINI, Focus SVT, Civic Si, VW New Beetle Turbo S (that's a long name...) and the Tiburon GT. They admitted not being able to get an S and since they tested awhile ago and CR always purchases their cars off a lot like any other person would, it probably would be difficult for them to have gotten on in time for this comparison. It does make concesssions for the S in some cases. Okay, let me apologize if this gets a little long winded :smile:

"Of the five cars we tested, only two - the SVT Focus and the Mini - are truly fun to drive. And only one - the Honda Civic Si - is expected to be reliable enough for us to recommend it. Therein lies the rub. When we test cars, we base their scores on performance, convenience, comfort, and fuel economy. To be recommended, however, a vehicle not only must score well in our tests but also must have average or better reliability based on our annual reader survey. That's why a top-scoring car may not be recommended, while a reliable but just-adequate performer may get the nod.

"The SVT Focus is a case in point. Its high test scores allowed it to easily top our Ratings for this group. It handles almost as crisply as a Porche Boxter, yet accomodates five people in an exceptionally roomy cabin and delivers a tolerable ride. But poor reliability of ealier Focus models prevents us from recommending it."

Okay - so comparison to a Porche, I don't know...but anyway, they do concede it's got reliability issue. Here are some comments on the Mini.

"Agile handling makes it fun to drive, and the front accommodations are surprisingly generous. A choppy ride, tight rear, and the base model's modest acceleration are notable detriments.
"The Mini rides firmly and damps most road humps, but the body's nearly constant short pitches give the ride a choppy feel overall. Road noise intrudes a bit on corase pavement.
"The Mini is a delight to drive. It corners crisply and eagerly, with quick and ideally-weighted steering..."

"The interior is long on style, but fit and finish could be better. The driving position is superb. Even very tall or very short drivers can fit easily and see out through the short windshield pretty well. The firm front seats are comfortable. The rear seats are nearly unusable unless the front seats are slid forward a good deal, which compromises their comfort.
"The cabin has little storage space. And the car's styling touches don't always aid functionality. Tiny horn buttons are hard to find quickly. The chrome shifter can become burning hot when the car is parked in the sun on a hot day. The steering-wheel rim obscures teh top of the tach for some drivers..."

"No U.S. crash-test data are available, although the Mini got a for-star rating (out of vie) in the European frontal-offset-crash test - the same score as the New Beetle's. A safety recall for some 2002 Minis has been issued..."

"Reliability. The redesigned Mini Cooper is too new to predict reliability."

Overall ratings it rated Very Good. The test highlights were:

Acceleration - Very Good
Transmission - Very Good
Routine handling - Excellent
Emergency handling - Very Good
Braking - Excellent
Ride - Good
Noise - Good
Driving position - Very Good
Front-seat comfort - Very Good
Rear-seat comfort - Poor
Access - Good
Controls and displays - Good (they made comments about ergos of the speedo)
Fit and finish - Very Good
Trunk - Poor

Now, my comments:
I think the article was pretty fair. I've noticed the lack of front cabin space (yes, I miss the center console space. Yeah, sure the ride is a little choppy, but CR is rating the car for every-day consumers...and we all know the everyday person isn't ready to Motor

So, anyway, pick up the article for the full scoop...yes, I did type all this, no worries. I don't have an online subscription, so I couldn't copy for you all. Enjoy!

 

Sounds fair to me... And I will agree that the ride is way to choppy and harsh for your average car driver... the average feel that people seem to like is that cushy feel... not what i'm looking for....

Rocketboy_X

 

I tend to go for the cushy ride myself, so I'm kinda surprised that I fell so hard for the MINI :smile:

 

It's funny reading all of these things that the MINI supposedly has going against it.

Tight rear seats? lack of storage space? choppy ride? Hah!

I'm trading in a 1990 Jeep Commanche long bed. NO cup holders. NO center console. Rides on leaf springs and two solid axles. NO passenger room, and about a quarter of the room behind the seats that the MINI has in its boot. And my other car is a BMW motorcycle. so as far as I'M concerned, the mini has MORE of all the things that it supposedly lacks, than my current vehicles! I can't loose!

 

>>Sounds fair to me... And I will agree that the ride is way to choppy and harsh for your average car driver... the average feel that people seem to like is that cushy feel... not what i'm looking for....
>>
>>Rocketboy_X

AMEN to that Rocketboy_x

Jimbo

 

I subscribe to Consumer Reports and think they do a pretty good job that is usually very objective. I found the article very amusing in that everything they didn't like about the mini I had mentioned here but generally got responsed with "what a troll". laugh...they didn't even test in the desert but mentioned the burning hot shift handle, as well as the awkward and very short cup holders, the mesh screen sunshade...they called the engine pokey, never heard that term before, laugh....I was surprised on their tests the foucs cornered better, I thought the mini was terrific and was surprised it was really no better than any of the other cars in the hazard avoidance test except for the VW....anyway...amusing article to read...and they were also right about the seats being firm, laugh...should be interesting when they finally test the S...cheers...

 

The test sound pretty fair. I would argue just a bit with the comments about the rear seat. I have had four grown men, all around 6 feet tall, in the car. Yes the front seats had to go forward a bit. They also needed to be raised up a few notches. But, we all rode in fair comfort. The thing I would say about the rear seat is that a person needs to work out a system for getting in and out of it. Not something you just rush into.

On the other hand, the limited seating is not a bad thing if you don't want a bunch of people riding with you. The extra weight, about 200 lbs. each, hurts the 0 to 60 times.

 

I've ridden in the rear seats of my MINI, and so have lots of other people, big and small, with never a complaint; there's enough room for all, front and back. I'm not sure that the MINI was designed to do what the original Cooper did, that is to say, provide "Econobox" transportation for a family of four in a time of economic crisis. As for the ride, well try a Corolla back seat. Also, the standard MINI has way more pick up than a Civic. If the base price of the SVT is almost 2K above the MC base price, as mentioned above, then I question the CR comparison in the first place. I like some Fords: I drove a Mustang convertible across Route 66 this summer and it was great, yet I wish I could have done it in my MINI.

But the fundamental question to ask is: do I love my Focus? My VW? The MINI is special. I mean are hot gear shift ***** or small horn buttons real issues? My response to the critics who bring up these points is: "well, there may be something in what you say," which placates them and doesn't reveal your basic unconcern about such quibbles. Motor on. Motor joyfully.

dg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chili Red MC w/ black roof and mirrors, chrome and cold weather packages, leather (Members' MINIs, page 43)

 

Very well-said! Motoring is NOT the same as floating around in a cushy couch-mobile! I like the road-feel and the handling...just great fun!

Cheers!
Clover

 

For me this was simple, The one thing I never question is someones releationship, with ther mate or their car. You got to figure if someone pays over $15,000. for something they were impressed at some point. For me I sent my wife down to test drive it first. she was grinning for two days a drove me down for my test drive. We were ready to motor. CR could totally trash the MINI and it just wouldn't matter. I'M here to motor. I'm motoring in a MCS and I grin every time I even think about it. I would like more rear leg room but hey I bought it to drive and well you don't do that from the back seat. I have a grand caravan, now there is a car with leg room/cargo space/cushy ride. Yes the bundy mobile is great for family vactions and going to the store for more than 40.00 in groceries. but you just can't motor in a mini van. OH yeah, my wife is counting the number of payments she has left on her mini van before she can order her MCS.
[QUOTE]Electra is an Electric Blue MCS Premium and Sport PKG,Ralley lights and a smile face on the ant!!!!, QUOTE]

 

Dgedalcia raises the only truly important point in the entire discussion, IMHO. The issue is not which car is better. I've been involved in those senseless arguements for years. That says alot about me doesn't it? The real, overriding, ultimate and cosmically meaningful question is:::: DO YOU LOVE YOUR MINI???

I am sure most or all of us would sceam YES, I LOVE MY MINI. What do you think would be the response from the drivers of those other cars to that question?

I think that is the real point, not what CR says, although I couldn't disagree with much of anything they said.

I have never before seen a car that could get into my heart the way MINI has.

 

I wouldnt worry about it. Consumer Reports has a political agenda. The best thing to do is leave it on the mag rack.

 

I had an '87 Pontiac Fiero GT and they didn't like that either. I guess they never got it up over 100 and felt it getting wider. They also made comments about the fit and finish which I never understood at all. The only problem with it were the Goodyear Eagle GTs which were quickly replaced with Pirellis.




Size matters!!!!

 

>>I wouldnt worry about it. Consumer Reports has a political agenda. The best thing to do is leave it on the mag rack.
>>

Come again?

Rocketboy_X