>>harmini: I too am hoping for scenario #4, it actually sounds like something a large corporation would come up with and if not maybe BMW should take note and read this scenario.
>>
>>P.S. thanks for the compliment on the signature...how's the de-badging going?

I'm heading out to the curb now to do the deed. I'll have a minty fresh boot afterwards (mint dental floss).

 

Watch out, Forcer. They are coming for your license plate!

 

Hey, Kim...35 more posts and you join the 6th gear club...

 

>>Hey, Kim...35 more posts and you join the 6th gear club...

Sorry, but it's actually 1101 posts to be in 6th gear,
but she is coming right along. I give her a week!

 

I recieved an email from them...

I believe this is their "form letter"

here it goes ---

Sat, 09 Aug 2003 09:33:15 -0400

Subject:
RE:BMWNA and MINIUSA Legal Departments and their Actions against MiniCooperOnline.com.

Hello Doug, thanks for writing MINI. On behalf of MINI USA, thank you
for your comments regarding this issue, and we are sorry to hear of
your concerns.

With reference to our trademark protection, we have no wish to prevent
independent businesses from trading. However, just like any other
business, MINI USA is duty bound to defend its MINI trademarks, and also
needs to ensure that consumers clearly understand when they are dealing
with official MINI outlets.

Also, we wish to make clear that we do distinguish between enthusiast
and commercial websites. We welcome enthusiast-only websites, and they
are free to use the MINI wordmark in their domain names, tradenames and
otherwise, as long as they are clear that the sites are independent of
MINI.

To ensure our trademarks are protected, we ask that third parties
engaged in commercial MINI-related activities make clear that they are not
officially licensed, and limit themselves to “fair use” textural
references to MINI in their literature. For example, a commercial website may
not use MINI in its domain name or tradename, nor may it make trademark
use of the MINI mark. It must ensure there is no suggestion that it is
an authorized, licensed, sponsored or affiliated MINI portal. Neither
enthusiast nor commercial sites may use the MINI logo or any imitation
thereof without permission.

We hope that you understand our obligation to protect the MINI
trademarks. Again, thank you for your comments and concerns.

Sincerely,
Emily Hatley
MINI Division
866-ASK-MINI

 

moc.enilnorepoocinim if you want to go backwards. Just fight it out and stick to MINI COOPER ONLINE .COM! YOU WOULD BE AMAZED HOW MUCH CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED IF NO ONE CARES WHO GETS THE CREDIT! So take all the credit Mark and do it all the way and we will help!!!
Thanxs so far for the fight just keep us up to date so we can responde.
Miniac91

P.S. Just incase we do have to take a new name cann't we come up with something cool, soooooo COOOL that BMW will freeze over????

 

Speaking of MINI Division, haven't heard a peep out of him/her

 

>>Watch out, Forcer. They are coming for your license plate!

Nah, I should be ok i have 1's instead of I's, however it is implied that it should read MINI, maybe I should worry . Or maybe I should worry that Mike Myers might slap me with a lawsuit

 

Hey all... haven't posted for a while b/c of my new job... look what happens when I step away. I'm really sorry to hear about all this. I mean, I understand them protecting their copyright, but it's painfully obvious that you a) aren't affiliated and b)make no money that doesn't go into sight upkeep. Therefore, it's ok legally speaking (I think...). This sounds slightly familiar - same thing happened with Simpsons sites and sites about TV shows owned by FOX (like Buffy). Pretty much yeah, it garners site publicity but it also gets the companies some too. It's kinda win-win/lose-lose situtation. Best of luck to you, and I'm sure what's probably going to wind up happening is they'll have you either remove any commerical links (so much for sponsors) or have you prove somehow that you make no money other than site upkeep costs from them. Any way you cut it, this situtation sucks a fattie.

 

Here's the thread on my club's website in reference to this whole mess.
http://www.kcminiacs.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=785#785
*******************

Also in ref to the ubiquitous response from our posts to the owners lounge at MINIUSA, I too received the same cut and paste from Emily....here's my response.

Thanks for the response......I thought I would warrant more than a cut and paste respsonse considering I am a founder and club president who avidly supports YOUR product. At least MY regional rep from MINIUSA, Peter Witt, had the courtesy to personally address this issue and contact me by phone. Your cookie cutter response is getting quite a bit of attention..... https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...78&start=0

Your company is not handling this issue very well.

Mike Larma
Founder
Kansas City MINI Enthusiasts

 

Isn't there an issue of time here? If BMW/MINIUSA were really just actively protecting their trademark, would'nt they have sent the cease and desist letter nearly a year ago? Seeing as how MINI has posted on the site, and Jack Pitney was quoted as saying he likes the message boards, isn't there some kind of implied consent since the site has been over a year in existence? You could argue that they sat back and allowed the use of the name, thereby removing all right to argue it's existance. Also, in the form letters that everyone seems to be getting as a response from MINI, they say that you cannot use MINI in the domain or trade name. They specifically capitalized the word. However, internet domains are case insensitive. Therefore https://www.northamericanmotoring.com is not infringing on their mark. You could argue that it is, and always has been, lowercase. Also, couldn't you change the meta tags on the site from MINI COOPER Online to Mini Cooper Online, or just minicooperonline? I know there should be an amiable solution. I just hope they can agree.

Fred

 

Thanks for the update Mark. I hope the tech-tv interview goes great. I have a very strong feeling that a positive solution will come out of this someway somehow.

That being said. My MINI no longer has MINI badges on the boot or bonnet!

 

Thanks for the updates mark! I'll be sure to watch you on techTV...I'm with you 100%

>>Also, we wish to make clear that we do distinguish between enthusiast
and commercial websites. We welcome enthusiast-only websites, and they
are free to use the MINI wordmark in their domain names, tradenames and
otherwise, as long as they are clear that the sites are independent of
MINI.

Isn't it clear that MCO is an enthusiast site? Doesn't it state that on every page of this site? Can't the lawyers at BMW read??? It also seems like they're sending the same emails to everyone...

 

MINI COOPER Online is an independently operated web site supporting owners and enthusiasts
worldwide. As such it has no official relationship with BMW AG, MG Rover cars, or BMW of North America.

All original artwork and design is Copyright © 2002-2003 minicooperonline.com.

 

We think alike on this one, now where's my MUG.
>>4. This is one big promotional stunt from BMW. First they promote a enthusiest site such as this one. Second they threaten to take away the name. This of course angers everyone causing the signing of online petitions, media coverage and getting BMW/MINI in the news. Third, media coverage of the BMW/MINI vs. minicooperonline.com problem has reached critical mass. Just before this becomes old news Jack Pitney is heard making a statement on the behalf of MINI USA. In his statement he appologizes profusely for the hardline tactics their law firm has made, and as a result someone was fired. MINI appologizes to its enthusiests and sends everyone a free mug. The end result: minicooperonline.com stays intact with BMW's blessing and BMW once again comes out on top because who wouldn't love a car company who supports and cares for it's customers. This scenario also falls in line with BMW's free advertising policy.
>>
>>Just my 2 cents. I think number three is the most beleivable
>>
>>_________________
>>

 

>>And if you want a mailing address:

MINI Division
PO Box 1227
Westwood, NJ 07675

 

Well . . .

It looks like that domain-squatting cuts both ways. Just look at who's squatting on www.MINIUSASUCKS.com (currently the most desireable domain name in all of MINI-dom, at least in North America).

From the WHOIS database:

Somebody was sure planning ahead (look at the date the domain was originally registered).

Maybe a straight-up trade; www.Mini-Motion.com for www.MINIUSASUCKS.com? Such a fair swap if you ask me, and all the gray men in suits at BMW will definitely sign off on it, doncha think?

LET'S LITIGATE.

 

thankyou for the continued info i know that most of us all over the country are upset with the situation and would like to help in any way that we can

 

>>It looks like that domain-squatting cuts both ways. Just look at who's squatting on www.MINIUSASUCKS.com (currently the most desireable domain name in all of MINI-dom, at least in North America).
>>
>>Organization:
>>Bayerische Motoren Werke AG
>>
>>Domain Name: MINIUSASUCKS.COM
>>Created on..............: Fri, Jul 06, 2001
>>Expires on..............: Sun, Jul 06, 2008

>>Somebody was sure planning ahead (look at the date the domain was originally >>>registered).

Welcome to MCO twiftwix

That's some clever digging you've done!! Thanks for posting the above tidbit.

 

I got the same email response minimike got except
that Emily calls me Michael.....

 

I feal left out, I want the standard response from MINI USA with Rich at the top of the letter. I'm gonna have to complain on MINI's forum or send them an email...i'm going to ask specifically for the form letter from Emily.

 

Thanks for the update Mark. Whatever happens I hope you are planning on continuing to fight this. It stands for much more than just a copyright issue. It is important on so many levels.

Also, I think if we're honest all the people that are current to the site will migrate to whatever website would become the alternate, however there is no telling as to what effect this would have on future members. This site is such a valueable tool and hopefully BMW will realize that, even with some BMW-bashing going on that the site is highly effective as a sales and support tool.

Thanks for what you do.

Jason

 

Looks like I got the same form letter response from Emily everyone else did:

Hello Ricky, thanks for your e-mail.

On behalf of MINI USA, thank you for your comments regarding this issue, and we are sorry to hear of your concerns.

With reference to our trademark protection, we have no wish to prevent independent businesses from trading. However, just like any other business, MINI USA is duty bound to defend its MINI trademarks, and also needs to ensure that consumers clearly understand when they are dealing with official MINI outlets.

Also, we wish to make clear that we do distinguish between enthusiast and commercial websites. We welcome enthusiast-only websites, and they are free to use the MINI wordmark in their domain names, tradenames and otherwise, as long as they are clear that the sites are independent of MINI.

To ensure our trademarks are protected, we ask that third parties engaged in commercial MINI-related activities make clear that they are not officially licensed, and limit themselves to “fair use” textural references to MINI in their literature. For example, a commercial website may not use MINI in its domain name or tradename, nor may it make trademark use of the MINI mark. It must ensure there is no suggestion that it is an authorized, licensed, sponsored or affiliated MINI portal. Neither enthusiast nor commercial sites may use the MINI logo or any imitation thereof without permission.

We hope that you understand our obligation to protect the MINI trademarks. Again, thank you for your comments and concerns.

Sincerely,
Emily Hatley
MINI Division
866-ASK-MINI

 

Hmmm, anyone else notice the extreme drop-off in the number of guests today??? We're looking like MCO pre-legal hassles with 48 guests and 86 members online. I guess Emily and staff have been giving other assignments for this week

 

So I was just noticing the VERY LARGE logo graphic at the top of each page that reads:

The Independent North American community of MINI owners and enthusiasts

and I was wondering if maybe an acronym of that should be used for a future url?

TINACOMOE... it has a nice ring to it.