I had originally thought of saying "narrowly focused" instead of niche market, and really that would have been more accurate.... But I also think that a toy is the ultimate compliment. I mean, a tool I'd use if appropriate, a toy is something I want to spend time on!

Matt

oh, and as far as what price constitutes high, no matter where you are on the ladder, EVERY rung above you looks higher.... Most people would consider ANY car over 35,000 or so expensive.... I think that's well above the median price paid for a car, and it's a goodly portion of the median family income!

 

I cant find the thread at the moment but someone in a forum asked about the Audi TT and I know I read Porsche is letting it go fwd. I really dont think they are any more concerned about Audi TT than the BMW Z4M roadster or Coupe. They are not competition.

At least when I read why ppl buy 987s, they come from testing Elise, Exige, some M3 but want a sportscar, not a sedan, and some MB SLK whatevers.

Caymen and Boxter set IMHO (and honestly, I'm sure a big segment of Porsche owners are buying them as status symbols as well

I'm sure some ppl do. I just read someone bought one because he liked how it looked. But the Cayman community is pretty small and most of the posts are more purists... many ppl track them (probably same percentages as MINIs on NAM). Most middle-aged farts like me. To many, the car is too stiff, too harsh suspension .... all those luxary car ... MB owners who dont know how hard a lowered MINI feels!

SUVs ... Everyone makes SUVs. The Cayenne made them A LOT of money.

Panarama? Not sure of the reasoning there. Some speculation its competitions for upper end BMW line ... 7 Series on the SEL MB line. Its is a different path making a sedan.

I understand your concerns but I really dont think Porsche looks at things that way. When BMW pushes out a 333HP BMW Z4M Roadster, they are happy keeping a 295 HP Boxster S because every car review on the planet (except for Clarkson who hates Porsche) always says the Boxster is a superior car. The purists know and pay the difference in price. The just dont seem "driven" by other makes. There seems to be a small group of current owners who constantly "worry and fret" about what other car makers are doing but the masses could care less.

I personnally do not see them squashing Audis. I do see them beefing up VW to compete, like he said, with Toyota for the mass markets.


I have to really disagree on this one. Sure ... there are some rich ppl around. No doubt about that. But your off on your prices ...

A GT3 is 106, TT, 122 ... then add options. The low end Lambo spyder is 200, the high end starts at 250.

I know 106K sounds high, but like I said ... its an aspiration.

When I bought a 944 in 1983, I looked at the marketing brochures and the pictures said it all ... 944 to the 30 somethings ... 911s to the middle-aged, starting to grey 50s crowd., 928s to grandpa (serously).

I was at the dealer over XMAS and asked about a TT on the lot. He's one of the larger local dealerships and they get 10 cars ... period. All ordered the day the are announced. He got six deposits for the TT Cabrio. No TT Cabrio has even been announced. People wait all their lives, save their money and when the time comes, they spring for the big money.

GT3? They get 3 cars/year. all gone for 2007
GT3RS? One car... Long gone

You want to get the top of the line, you put down deposit on a 2009 now, at least in this part of the country.

just bumps up the monthly payment a bit.

Nah ... these guys do NOT have car payments. Lease, sure. but they aren't like us Joe Smoes getting by

I would add I would worry about the upcoming Japanese supercars. Lexus, NSX or whatever but I dont read current owners really care. I would, it wouldnt bother me to buy a Toyota supercar!

 

Note I mentioned the GT2, more costly - I don't have the new prices but they were at least 150 or more as I recall, a new 07 Gallardo starts at 175. (I dug this up fwiw:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2005/por...35/prices.html)

I happen to see a lot of high end cars like this around here, and from what I've seen there is a segment who are in business and make payments, write off the cars. then there are the more wealthy/trust fund types who handle it differently (and also write it off I'm sure :P).

Anyway, what I'm saying is different then the standard competition from other makes like BMW or Lexus, etc and how Porsche might see it, the question is how they end up handling it when they have control of the purse strings and veto power for these other marques and are clearly on the path of making cars that do overlap customer wise. There is really no telling based on the past considering its a new situation.

The Cayman people to date are probably a lot like the Z Coupe group was, very tightknit online, track people and such - but even with that tiny pool of cars there were a good number of owners not involved with enthusiasts or forums, so it's always hard to draw conclusions based on that.

 

I was just joshing Dr. O and his choice of words

LSD... Only by the track junkies and not as much as you might think. But its a good question so here is some more info.

The "big" issue is the CS tracked by the factory driver is 4 secs faster around the Ring that the 997. Track testing stopped. Thou cannot be faster than the Icon.

The hatred on some forums is unbelievable. Its verbal all out war, some hating so bad they just want the car to fail. They gloat on the fact there were good discounts on 06s ... but they forget a 3 year old TT is only worth half what was orignally paid. If you think MINI has a heritage and culture, the Porsche ICON is SO embedded there is outright hate. People rarely talk on open forums about options or whatever like on NAM but about "marketing" and sales and a bunch of crap. (some boards). Sad.

In any case, the car is SO new, there are few available aftermarket parts so far. Few catbacks, few headers, one or two chips, virtually no suspension parts, H&R springs is all I know. As to LSD, the track junkies all get the PASM suspension, lowers the car 10mm, switch to turn on/off, harshen up the shocks, much harsher ride than on soft setting. This helps a great bit. Being mid-engined and RWD is hugely different than FWD so actually, I read very little about the urgant need for LSD.

Many, many journalists say the chassis is setup for 400 hp easily and is just waiting for the 998 to come out so the HP can finally go up. The one thing Porsche does very well is overengineer everything. If you actually read the reviews, everyone will tell you that the car is so good that it makes a bad driver look good and a great driver ... well it hurts the Icon. One thing I never forgot was that they take every cars brakes and drive from 62 MPH to top speed, brake hard to 62 MPH and back up .... 24 times in a row with no fade. They overengineer everything.

ABSOLUTELY. I agree 100%. Hell, before the MINI I had $14K Corolla. I dont care about the Toyota haters, I loved the car. Great gas mileage, great reliability.

People spend on whatever ... Some have boats, some campers, some have $80K Kitchens and $40K bathrooms

Its all about whats important to you. Everyone also spends different amounts as they can afford too on whatever. We used to take fairly expensive vacations, EVERY year for years. I drove an old Toyota. Now ... hell I aint been on a "real" Vacation since 2000. Its all in how allocate money.

 

Subaru of America actually just picked up Michael McHale (a MINI USA vet). Wonder if he'll try to pick up Ms. Martin....Subaru could use the marketing help...always a weak spot for them (the performance cars sell themselves, but the marketshare could be vastly improved with proper ad campaign).

 

Oh sorry, you did. Yes, GT2 was like $180K but they dont make them anymore, at least yet for this cycle of the 911. They probably will and GT2s, I believe, are not street legal or they say track use only. I'm not so sure you could actually live with one. Totally stripped car meant to go take racing.

Its funny you mention it though because when I was talking the salesman over XMAS, he said a 70 year old doctor traded in his GT2 on a 2007 TT. Kept it for a week and took it back. Said it was "Too tame", and it was because the GT2 is faster. He took a GT3 instead and is happy now because its new generation, faster, etc. Thats what I meant about the TT are "softer" nd the GT3s what ppl aspire too. Also a BIG difference between 106 and 180!

Yeah, SF ... your in the high rent district! Now the normal suburbs!!! Yup, ppl lease and write them off. But you know, at least here, lot of doctors, lawyers, DC Types ... lobbyists or whatever. When I was doing the paperwork they ALWAYS send you to finance and I asked specifically ... Do 911 buyers actually get financing and the answer was no .... many just right a check But that is here ... not the high rent district where maybe the can afford those car payments

Maybe. The only thing I read is that Porsche Board of Directors control development. VW used VPs or whatever. However Piech or whoever will not force the Porsche mgmt model on them. Who knows ...

Thats another good question. I always get a kick out of enthusiasts on NAM thinking they represent the 150,000 MINI owners out there when the population is tiny by comparison.

At the moment, I can say there are VERY few places to discuss the car, a bare handful, and most are long standing Porsche forums. There is one major Boxster board thats totally separate I know of. Discussion on the major boards are useless. VERY few posts, mostly garbage or marketing discussion ... totally different than the 911 forums on the same board which have normal healthy discussions.

There are 5000 cars old in the US for all 2006. There is exactly one dedicated Cayman board and it has about 3400 members. That is a pretty huge hunk of the population. So it is pretty tight, any new aftermarket stuff or problems/complaints is immediately known, etc. Its not without problems, its new and run much like NAM. I wouldn't consider it a "real" community yet like NAM and OT because its only a year old, but it has the "register"

Unlike MINIUSA, there is the National PCA which looks pretty powerful. They split the country in zones and each zone has so many "clubs" which report through the Zone up to PCA national. Totally different than MINI ad hoc club structure. Then again, they have been doing it since 1948. Each model has a "register" ...

Why a Register? I have no clue but they say 95% of all porsches ever registered in the US, not totalled, are still "registered for driving in a state". PCA sells silly Certificates of Authenticity, cost a fortune, tells about your options. I have no idea why other than to make money!

 

So how many of the 3400 registered are real, active accounts of owners and not maybe multiple accounts, trolls, random extra accounts that always pop up on forums, and also from people not in the US? Sorry, I can't help but think of these things, as someone who used to admin and work on "online communities" it just comes to mind to call the membership actual active figures into question. I see Cayman around on the streets all the time (silvers and mostly dark colors, yellow, white and red way less) and I wonder how many are online, who knows right?

Anyway, I guess this has gone pretty OT, but it will be interesting to see what happens with this Teutonic power play

PS: Been around some of the Audi forums and man, they are slow compared to the BMW ones I used to frequent ones and NAM, makes me impatient - much less owners of the model tho.

 

Another fair question and interesting. I can say that because its so new, the owner is pretty particular and far, far more active than say Mark F. He is the main contributer and watches things a bit closely ... I know there was discussion on watching for fake accounts (against the rules, mutiple IDs, monitoring IP addresses). Also, like many forums, I think they went to those funny letters to logon, search to keep automated accounts away.

Trolls. I've seen one or two. Very typical (Your cars suck ...) You know... I gotta say ... they LOVE to feed the trolls but the owner knows, Im sure. Non-US, yes a few, a handful UK I've seen. They tend to keep discussion in their own zone

Posting distribution ... just like NAM or most any active forum. Old-timers (hehe, from Jan, 06), have the high post counts ... and you got to remember there is no really active OT. Lots of newbies, like me, the last four months although I did "just read" as early as May or so. Normal posting distro ... some very high numbers, lots of ppl in the middle, some with few and just pop up to post with a question.

Yeah but again, high rent district. In all of 2006, except for the dealer, I have seen exactly ONE (yellow) Boxster, ONE Cayman (black) and a handful ... maybe half a dozen 911s in the wild ... on the street.

BMWs? I can't tell you how many. Parking lots a glut of them, all flavors. Elise? ONE. Mercedes? Way too many to count.

BTW, you hit the colors right on the head. Red, White, Black, and Yellow are free but no longer popular. Silvers, greys, very popular (Silver is their racing color), Couple of grand extra. Exotic colors ... Carmona red, some blues, and others $$$$ and rare. Dealers stock mostly silvers, greys, black and the occassional Red.

We will see what they do with VW. Clearly, to me, a hostile takeover. I know they always talk about DSG technology. I think they do want to position VW to compete with Toyota world-wide.

 

They dont really need much advertising..the lack of TV ads has worked so far.

 

It should read:

"My Mini is Way Slower than Chows' RAV4"

 

Her 36 going on 45 year old tush?

*Shudder*

 

VW is leading the Dakar rally with dune-buggy custom race Touaregs powered by a 5 cyl., 2.5L turbo diesel, they don't import that engine to the USA but they should still promote their success. The Touareg V10 TDI, which is sold here, has an engine that is essentially two of smaller ones joined together. I wish BMW would enter the MINI in some rallies or races with some factory support, we know the cars are very capable.

 

Heres one of my toy cars:


No airbags, but the blister pack is quite a reliable safety feature.

 

Considering I'm 50, yes.

Boy are you going to have a tough time when you grow up!

 

I've sensed the initial excitment over the Mini is dying off with the general public. Mini's aren't in a lot of auto mags anymore. They need to keep the marque in the public's face.

 

Frank (Post #10) had previously made the comment that she looked a bit older than she is.......... you ever seen a picture of her? I'll bet you a beer it makes you shudder too.

There plenty of attractive older ladies out there - Chows for example.........growl!

 

I saw a pic of her, but when you get to my age, that's an average looking older woman.

 

I'm older than her - am I now an older man?

BTW, you're 50 - not 150. Remember 50 is the new 40.

 

Good point. My mom's 50 and I dont consider her old at all. She still acts and looks the same as she did when she was 35 (about as far back as I can remember ).

 

Kerri Martin is a good looking girl, just that she looks to have more mileage than her actual age suggests...

Related to the CP+B and VWoA fiasco, here is another interesting critique from www.autoextremist.com, published today:

Crispin Porter + Bogusky. Now that Kerri Martin, VW's "Director - Brand Innovation" was unceremoniously shown the door in hasty fashion last week for creating a lot of "buzz"-worthy advertising campaigns but with little or no corresponding sales uptick to show for it - "yesterday's news" - aka ad agency Crispin Porter + Bogusky - is now officially "on the clock." And we're not talking about the NFL draft day clock, either. The former media darlings, who once graced the cover of Business Week in a glowing article that anointed them as the "hottest ad shop in America," have now been exposed for what they truly are: Chirpy, self-important and self-promoting advertising-types (as if there's any other kind - ed.) who happened to be in the right place at the right time with the Mini, and who rode that wave to national notoriety and endless award show appearances. Lets's face it, we could think of easily at least a dozen ad agencies in America who could have hit the Mini campaign assignment out of the park, but CP+B happened to be the ones who got it. But as we predicted in this column, when CP+B was handed the VW assignment, it fell under the classic axiom of "be careful what you wish for." It's one thing to generate off-the-wall advertising and promotional devices for the Mini, a quintessential "niche" brand if there ever was one, and it's quite another to attempt to resurrect a brand that once enjoyed iconic status in this market - and depends, no demands serious volume. Yes, CP+B did a few noteworthy spots along the way, but they and Ms. Martin got caught up in their own "ad genius" press clippings and their incessantly terminal hipness and proceeded to ride that glory train right into the ground. You read it here first, the VW account will be put up for review before the summer - and CP+B won't be asked back. In a business when fifteen minutes of fame is a typical barometer, CP+B got about 45 minutes. And now, their time is well and truly up.

So do you guys agree or disagree with Peter de Lorenzo comments?

 

that a good ad campaign can't make up for reputation, and an overpopulated market. While the new VWs are better than the older ones, they still are VWs and all the pre-concieved notions on the brand will persist through even a very good add campaign! Remember Nissan's "Dogs Love Trucks". Same thing. Adds loved by many, add awards, but it was still a nissan pickup, and everone knew that.... But on the other hand, maybe there are more dog owners because of it!
Personally, I thought making a point about safety in a car that wasn't really known for it was a good hook for the market.... But what do I know.... I just was a marketing manager for a while.

It's also common for larger companies to fire the hired spokes people when the issues that are being faced have more to do with corporate managment decisions than anything else. I wonder if that's the case here?

But overall, the Mini was at such a sweet spot that almost anyone could have done well with it. Finding a smaller firm with a bit more impertanance was a good call for the statement the Mini makes.

But the be carefull what you wish for slant is very true. Little did I know that when I said I'd "help out" with marketing, that my title would change, my staff would be given to others, and that I'd have no budget to do what needed to be done. Bit me in the *** too! The Mini account was from a smaller company, and it would be natural to move up when the chance presented itself. But the opportunity isn't a gaurantee of success. But you'd have to be stupid to not try........

Matt

 

One thing I can tell you... That the CP+B folks here in Miami must be soo regretting the day they decided to "fire" MINIUSA and get the VWoA account instead. I am sure some heads will be rolling downhill, if it hasn't started already.

Their lust for more money really killed them this time.

 

I can identify with "mileage." I look older than my years. I always have.

 

Partly. Its far simpler than that. She probably got caught up in sweeping the rug clean ... If Porsche wants VW to compete with Toyota as indicated by the CEO... its going to have to do a lot more than have cutesy ads targeted at teenagers and 20 year olds. The Toyota market is far broader.

 

maybe she can go to work for Mercury..