You CAN, but SHOULD you? Should it be permitted? If people start buying 20,000 lb vehicles and using them for day to day tasks, should anything be done? That's the point I was making. Not what is simply "legal" but what is fair and right for the public at large.

And vehicle weight VERY MUCH SO has to do with safety to others in the event of an accident/incident. To say it doesn't is ignorant, but I'm not sure that is what you are saying.Why is it too political? We're not talking about candidates nor political parties. We're having a discussion about vehicle use on public USA roads, and this is an auto-related forum. Perhaps it doesn't belong in MINI Talk any longer, granted, but I fail to understand why it should be locked OR removed. Nobody's making you read it, you know.

 

Political discussion has been removed from NAM. As you can see by this discussion...for good reason.



Paul

 

Anyone else agree with, "Trucks use right lanes ONLY" for all highways in all states...?

 

I know the rules Paul, I've been here a while. I was questioning whether this qualifies. I don't think it does. This is an auto-related discussion without pumping up nor slamming any political party or candidate.Absolutely - do we get to define the full meaning of the word "truck" too?

 

There is nothing "political" about a discussion on the size of SUVs.

The originator's comment was:

... the size of vehicles these days is getting just a bit ridiculous (IMO)"

My comment was that I dont understand the anti-SUV Bashing (i.e., sentiment) because "To each their own"
I believe Edge cleared that up with his thoughts about buying something you don't actually use.

For both sides of the issue ...

You DO have the absolute right to complain (either way) and many, many Americans have DIED to protect that right.

 

Thank you, chows. And Paul's response is to attempt censorship!

I have no problem with people who disagree with me... provided they provide logical reasons for their disagreement. I try hard to present sound reasoning in any discussion, and if I am proven wrong (and I realize it - the first step!) I will gladly concede and adjust.

Paul has every right to ignore this thread. And for all the bystanders, I apologize if I have "hijacked" the thread - that's why I admitted it should probably be moved out of "MINI Talk" into another auto-related forum, since we aren't talking specifically about MINIs any more.

 

1. I have K9 Dogs not kids so you can drop the stereotype
2. I didn't buy the Tahoe for its acceleration stupid point
3. I can't fit 3 German Shepherds,bomb detection supplies,bite training suits and sleaves, and other "equipment", I have a use for this vehicle

 

Actually I think the regulatory body that defines safety requirements for USA vehicles has already defined it, happens to include SUVS, pickups, Minivans, semis, et. al. that's why they are exempt from the same safety requirements as the passenger cars. But in my thinking and sense of fair play it should be defined by number of wheels and/or GVW, as it is currently in application on some highways.

 

Would they fit in a minivan, that is superior to most SUVs in almost every way on paved roads? Oh, other than the "uncool" factor, or towing. Exemptions... them there laws need updatin'!

Didn't realize that minivans are included in the spec though, since they are based on a car platform. Interesting - are you sure? Perhaps full sized vans, but minivans too?

 

I am pretty sure about the minivans, that's how they get away with the flimsy seat attachment points, and hideaway seats...

 

I sure hope nobody tries to keep me from owning/driving my Mini Cooper S because in his or her opinion I don't "need" it. I also want to keep my Dodge Ram pickup so I can drag my trailer to Yellowstone or Death Valley one percent of the time.

 

This has been an excellent disscussion! Don't shut it down!
I find it amusing, over the years that the SUV fad has expanded, how many manufacturers have come out with SUVs. Who would have thought Porsche would build one? Or BMW? Or Mercedes? What's next, Lamborghini (oh yeah, the LM002)? Ferrari still hasn't.
Here in AZ, people hardly go off road (you can tell by lack of Mexican pinstriping).
The macho I-own-the-road-and-you-don't attitude by some SUV drivers don't help some of our perception of them either!

 

Moved to Off-Topic? I would have thought at LEAST "Off-Topic:Autos". This thread ALL about autos! Oh well.

 

I've been to Moab off-road in a Land Rover and would love to retire somewhere near that to see the beauty of the land off the beaten track. Its awesome country.

 

I'll move this over to OT:Autos. I've reviewed most of the thread and feel that it doesn't touch on any political topics and should be left open as long as everyone abides by the site guidelines. Thanks!

Mark

 

Thanks Mark, on both counts. Reasonability wins the day!

 

When I was an avid mountain biker, I attended several Fat Tire Festivals. Slickrock trail is THE MOST awesome trail in the world!
"..beaten track" is this months photo contest topic!

 

[QUOTE=Edge]Would they fit in a minivan, that is superior to most SUVs in almost every way on paved roads? Oh, other than the "uncool" factor, or towing.

Dude they fit in my MINI but its not practical for the kind of work that I do. If I wanted a Minivan I would have bought one. When I need to get out in a foot or more of snow,or trek down a muddy dirt road I am pretty sure that I can go worry free with my Tahoe. Again people who Bash others for their (key word coming up here) "Choice" of vehicle are DORKS.

 

[QUOTE=K9MINI]First, I think people understand the difference between needing a behemoth SUV, whether its for work or something really used/required for something that nothing else can fulfill. The criticisms come from seeing and having to deal with people who can't/don't teach themselves how drive the monster's safely and at those who opt to make the roads less safe for everyone else without really needing them. Hell, many owners around here can't even park the giant things well much less know how to check around the vehicles adequately while in motion, maneuver them safely, or leave enough braking distance appropriate for the weight and brakes on them.

The danger the really large SUVs pose to people in passenger cars is considerable, not just because they are so large and the bumpers, etc do not conform to passenger car/van/small truck heights but because the vehicles just cannot avoid accidents well and the braking distances are often shorter. Sure, if all of the drivers learned how to check the high blind spots, how to maneuver, how much room to brake, etc it would be a different situation, but in the world we live in many of us see more bad SUV driving then good, and because of the size and (lack of) handling characteristics of the enormous vehicles the 'impact' is greater. So while we dodge around the giant things (whose driver's often don't even notice that they almost ran into you), hold our breath while they tailgate us in traffic knowing they can't stop as well and can injure us more then a normal car, and endure them crammed into compact parking spaces, we have earned the right to bash them because when they bash us the fatality rate is much higher then it would otherwise be.

 

So you're resorting to personal insults now? That is against forum rules. Argue the point, don't insult, it's rather pathetic. Between this comment and the "stupid point" remark you made earlier to Paul, you're just begging to get moderated.

 

Well if you are admitting to being a "basher",and you are way to easily offended then I guess you can take that as an insult. Are you a basher? And calling Pauls point stupid can be justified when you have someone bashing away at a choice you made with information that has no bearing on that choice. If the moderators feel I have stepped over any lines I would be happy to get a PM and drop it.

 

I guess I should have added this to an earlier post ...

I have to Fairly large dogs (70 and 95 pounds). They get hauled lots of places ... Vet, Dog Park, kennel, etc. Sometimes its seems that they live in the Vet!

There is absolutely no way those dogs are going into that MINI. They will scratch the leather and get mud everywhere, never mind getting the stink out.

Its much easier just removing the back seats of my small SUV, put up one of those dog thingies that block them from the front seats, and haul the about.

 

Obviously this kind of SUV conversation is nothing new. The most common comment I seem to see is that people who own and drive SUVs don't need them. Even those who do own and drive SUVs always seem to say that while THEY need their SUV, most others do not. My question is always - well who gets to determine who "needs" an SUV? At this point, the individual is allowed the freedom to detremine their own needs. I don't think I know anyone who owns an SUV that does not have some justification for owning one.

I would also say that most of us have things that we don't "need". Big screen TVs, big houses, luxury cars, sports cars, the list is endless. All the while people are dying around the world of starvation and lack of health care. Maybe I am taking this too far down the slippery slope - but maybe not.

Eliminate the SUV as being too dangerous or too much of a gas hog or for whatever reason and then some other class of vehicle will then be the top bad dog. Keep the elimination process going and eventually eliminate all cars, a lot of pollution and a lot of needless traffic deaths.

This certainly does not justify the SUV and I don't pretend that it does. My comments are mainly toward the concept of determining the need for an SUV. There are some very valid points being made by the SUV opposers. My major point is that each individual makes his own determination of need and want. Yet everyone seems to want to deem the SUV as not needed by anyone.

I suppose if public opinion on the dangers and problems with the SUV ever grows enough then perhaps further safety or EPA regs could make the SUV obsolete. That is if gas prices don't do that first.

 

Dude ... While I know your trying be serious here, I got to interject one thing. I NEED MY BIG SCREEN TV and AIN'T giving it up for NOBODY You can have the dishwasher, the garbage disposal, even the dogs ... but NOT the TV

 

I love how your smiley TV is showing a boxing match.