That sucks kaelaria and also demonstrates exactly why these arbitrary and excessive laws are so offensive. I remember back in the War on Drugs, the feds had mandatory 10 year sentences for cocaine trafficking, yet the bill was so tough that it defined trafficking as such a small amount of the drug that anyone caught with a small amount - even for personal use - HAD to be sentenced to 10 years in federal prison! Give me a break and no I don't support cocaine use.

 

Man, where did this happen, so that I can make plans to avoid that place!

 

Clearwater! And while the laws here are tougher than most, that's still a drop in the bucket compared to VA traffic laws!

 

This is exactly what is wrong with the law. The need for attorneys to "bump" the offense down to 79 or 10 over is simply disengenuous. Soofle admits he was going 83, and he should pay a reasonable fine, say $100-$300 dollars (or traffic court) assuming he wasn't being truly reckless. Instead, his lawyers need to cut some back room deal to plea bargain his offense down to something that better fits the "crime". This proves that the law is a bad law.

The fundamental problem with the law is that it PRESUMES anything over 80 is reckless. If you truly believe this then you should NEVER drive over 80 under any circumstances, as no reasonable people condone reckless driving.

This is why I am surprised at your position on the law. I'm assuming you do not believe you are being reckless at these speeds. If you are reckless, then you do deserve the $2500 fine and some jail time. More likely, you believe that if caught, you should pay a fine more along the lines I have suggested above.

Earlier I mentioned my recent Georgia speeding ticket. They fuzz was sitting on the county line and popped us for 83 in a 65. On the back of the ticket was a very clear fee schedule for 65/55 zones. 83 worked out to $100. I believe the magic number in Georgia was 100mph. Over that speed was reckless. 99 would have gotten you $300. That is a reasonable ordinance with clearly defined fines. Obviously the officer has the discretion to write a reckless at any speed and then attorneys would likely be involved. The presumption of reckless at 100, as opposed to 80, appears much more reasonable, with MINIs getting a one time 120 exemption!

Give me liberty, or give me death (just don't put me in jail!)
Mike

 

Without the Declaration there would be no Constitution, and I would likely be an indentured servant on an English-owned tobaccy farm unable to afford my wonderful Oxford-built MINI!

We will have to agree to disagree. Speed traps and quotas are set up to generate revenue for local municipalities.


How about the officer, like they in most states. And then if they make that call, you hire your attorney and have your scary day in court.


The MINI makes me drive over 80. Are you equating shoplifting to driving 56 in a 55? That would be breaking the law, so I then should go to jail. You don't go to jail for breaking all laws; most you pay a reasonable fine.

How about a reasonable fine and a "slow down" admonition.

Mike

 

I think part of the problem is some legislators (both state and federal) routinely want to take control away from the local judges and police officers. I see this often in my state (Pennsylvania), which employs one of the largest number of state lawmakers in the country. They apparently need something to do, so they micromanage the local officals with mandatory minimum sentencing and the like.

If you are going 83 in a 65 in a deserted stretch of Virginia highway, and get pulled over, the officer has to lie, in effect, unless he really wants to stick it to you. If an officer knows you weren't reckless, and doesn't want you to see you go to jail, he either has to write simply "excessive speed" or make up a number so that you are punished justly, but not over punished. In other states, if you are truely driving recklessly, the officer has to write a separate citation if not arrest you on the spot.

That's similar to what happens in court, when a judge wants to show mercy but is handcuffed from doing so because of mandatory minimums.

 

Soofle admits that his speedometer showed 83. There's a big, but subtle, difference. If his speedo is wrong, or if the radar gun is mis-calibrated, then there's reasonable doubt. That's what the lawyers argue, more than anything else. IANAL, but I've seen plenty of friends and coworkers go through this, and it's always the same: mis-calibrated equipment is the name of the game.

Actually, I tend to become acutely aware of my speed when it gets over 80. I do it when I'm driving angry, and try to pull the brick off my foot. It's hard, sometimes, but I consent to whatever punishment might come my way by virtue of speeding. As I said, one eye is always peeled for Johnny.

I'm too young to remember, but I've been told that this was the theory for a long time in VA, too. 100 was the cut-off. My dad got popped in his 930 somewhere in the 90+ range, and there was a very stern talking-to.

I said before that I think Virginia is responding to some external pressure. Whether it's federal pressure to reduce accidents or MothersAgainstDumbDrivers or whatever, the commonwealth decided to crack down hard on moving infractions.

(Take this with a big grain of salt Quotas are illegal.

cf. above. I think Virginia used to do this. It obviously wasn't working.

There's another little thing about my fine state that's being overlooked, here, and it could turn into a wonderful topic all on its own:

Virginia is the source of something like 50% of all the guns used in violent crimes in New York.

We have historically had a serious problem with New York / New Jersey residents coming down to VA, buying a bunch of guns, and then hauling a** back North. A lot of our selective targeting of out-of-staters has to do with controlling secondary criminal activity, or so I've been told.

I do, of course, recognize that if you're not local, you're less likely to appear in court, which makes you more likely to just accept the fine. That stinks, and I've fallen victim to it, myself (73 in a 55, 5 hours from home). I just sent the court a check. It wasn't worth my time to fight it, but my fine was only $84.

BTW, I don't equate anything with 56 in a 55. VA generally works on a 10% or 9 over indemnity. And, the cops here won't entrap you. If you get blown off the road by a cop doing 85, follow him. He can't stop you, unless his lights were already on.

 

I've hired a lawyer who is going to (presumably) attempt to talk the prosecutor into reducing the ticket to 80 flat so I can just pay a fine and be on my merry way. If that doesnt work he'll be asking for an extension on my court date to give him and me time to put together some kind of defense to hopefully convince the judge to reduce the charge. Meantime I'm off to my local MINI dealer to see if by some miracle my speedometer reads a few mph slow (i only need it to be off by 3) in which case im basically off the hook for reckless and have nothing to worry about besides a small fine. The beauty of this is that even a brand new car is generally not perfectly calibrated and I have 7k on my tires so they shouldnt be too badly worn yet. The down side is that they may tell me my speedo is reading high not low in which case it wont help me in the least.

 

Don't expect any miracles doing that.

 

We have historically had a serious problem with New York / New Jersey residents coming down to VA, buying a bunch of guns, and then hauling a** back North. A lot of our selective targeting of out-of-staters has to do with controlling secondary criminal activity, or so I've been told.

 

I can just about guarantee that your speedometer reads high, not low. Do a search here for "speedometer accuracy" and you'll find several threads describing why BMW speedometers always read high.

 

...but in the end, it's the Troopers' radar gun speed reading that counts, no?

 

Not entirely. If you can prove that you believed you were going slower (mis-calibrated speedo), the judge will generally find you guilty of the speed that your speedo showed.

 

See http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html#absolute

Traffic laws are not arbitrary but the property of each State (you know, "State's Rights". If you look over the list of states, some don't care how fast your going, others, like Virginia, care a great deal.

If you don't like a law, write to your local representative at the state level. Also take notice of VA sending ppl to jail for doing over 90.

VA's 80 is actually +15 on the Interstate making it the "toughest" law

 

How fast does traffic really flow on a Virginia interstate? I was driving from OC to SD (top down of course) on the 5 and EVERYONE was going over 80 and quite a few were going over 90 and I was thinking how I'd be in a cell in Virginnie. I won't be writing any letters, I just won't be spending any tourist dollars in the state. And I feel sorry for you if you own a MINI there, because I derive a whole lot of joy in mine over 80!

Peace,
Mike

 

Thats an excellent question.

I've driven I95 in VA many times so here is some real life experience.

Way, way back, the AAA maps would specifically mark the areas around Emporia, VA as major speed traps, DO NOT speed.

First, you got to remember I95 is the major drug corridor from FL to NY

Second, VA is really Old South and remember the war

Speed limit is 65. I traveled down to Mrytle Beach, SC last Sept and speed flowed at about 70. There is no way anyone was doing 85.

There is a reason that VA is the ONLY state in the union to ban radar detectors (again State Rights).

I'm not saying its good or bad, but rather, its just the way it is

motor carefully!

 

Hey, now!

Traffic (in Richmond) usually flows 70 - 75.

Traffic on I95 between Richmond and DC usually flows between 80 and 95 -- if it flows at all. It's absurd, I know, but I've heard of people around DC getting tickets for speeding, but not because they were going too fast: they were going too slow! If traffic is moving at 80, and you're doing 70 in an area that congested, then you are a problem on the road.

Sometimes the rules don't make sense when applied to the real world.

 

Since Michigan does not participate in the DLC or the NRVC there aren't any consequences if you don't show up to court in VA ...unless you get stopped in VA again ...at which time they will promptly take you to jail

 

Much as I hate to consider it, there must be a MINI owner out there that can prove you wrong. Hope we don't meet 'em, though

Imagine the justice system. Traffic Court would always go to trial

By Single Combat! Pull out your nasty twin-bladed thingy, utter some awful multisyllabic epithets, and cleave your opponent in two! Reminds me of when folks would use duels and affronts to their honor to eliminate less physically-skilled opponents they couldn't defeat in a more conventional fashion.

And as a German-American, I'm not particularly fond of the term "****" being bandied about, either.

Cheers,
Matthew Z.

 

Jeeeeez!! Mandatory 24 hours in jail for contesting a speeding ticket?!? For 10 miles over the limit?? And I thought denying you traffic school if you exercised your right to contest a ticket was bad!

(BTW, that sounds like a local rule; I don't think the CA statutes say that, do they?)

Did this happen to you in CA, Dr. Obnxs? I've got to stay away from there!

As for the VA stiff laws, that bites! I lived in VA for 12 years, and got a couple speeding tickets. It used to be that 20 mph over the limit was automatically reckless -- which, fortunately, I never did -- but it wasn't nearly so harsh a punishment. Sounds like up to 12 mos. is/would be a bit overboard, especially if your record is clean. (I'm assuming your 4-yr-old points have aged off your driving record by now?)

Maybe they want to reserve the ability to really make a statement to chronic excessive speeders.

Is the reckless ticket really punished the same as DUI/DWI in VA? That's saying something, ain't it? And it ain't a good something about VA's priorities!

Anyway, thanks for the heads up. Next time I'm in VA, I'll be more careful. I usually go about 9 over in the 55 and 65 zones.

Good luck, Soofle.

 

I could be wrong, but I personally thought it was a reference to the not-being-deprived-of-liberty-without-due-process part ...

Yep, no right to drive, and no right to exceed the speed limit, either. But, 12 months in jail for going 18 miles over the limit at 0330 with no traffic around? Seems a bit excessive, although it is just part of the possible sentencing range; and, in fact, not too many things qualify as cruel & unusual under the Constitution.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head in your previous post about "reserving the right" to act tough on seemingly small crimes.

I think most people who go into court pleasantly and courteously will come out OK, and the guy who spits at the judge will get the maximum.

 

(insert klingon sounding throat clearing growls and grunts) Ok so maybe i didnt cleave my opponent in two with my nasty twin-bladed thingy but I did find out that my speedo was reading slow by 9 whole mph! According to Classic its the first they've ever seen a speedo that was off so much (or indeed at all) After sending the paperwork to my lawyer he told me not to bother showing since the evidence clearly showed i was not at fault so going so fast. End result, reckless charges have been dropped and replaced with simple speeding 74 in a 65. VA fine schedule, processing fee and court fees my fine is 137 bucks (not so bad compared to the alternative) Lawyer was a bit more than that but still not so bad. Thank you all for info, sympathy, etc. and watch out next time you're there. I love the state and have every intention of going back again but I'm damn sure not gonna be going any faster than 66-67 when i do. Oh, and btw, as for the speedo, i followed the instructions for changing speedo and tach lights to blue and removed the speedo needle and stuck it back on 9mph higher than it was (according to classic it was a 9mph difference across the board not proportional) since then no more problems.

Gas to get to Classic Mini from Flint MI: $36
Lawyer fees: $437
Speeding fine, court fee, processing fee: $137
Not listening to Bubba tell me I have a "Purty Maowth" from the next shower stall: PRICELESS

Some things in life can't be bought, for everything else, there's pure dumb luck.

 

I guess all my PM's and IM's were pointless?

congrats that it wasn't so bad!

 

If your not going to VA again... screw it...