Hi to all - I could use some advice, since I know there are plenty of BMW experts here. So yesterday I was on one of the 2 GP threads....one of which I started. I got a post from ND4oz suggesting that I take a look at the 2019 BMW M2 “Competition”. Well I’m still down from another shoulder surgery, so I had plenty of time to research the M2 C. Now in my thread I mentioned that I am first in line for the GP at my dealership. But after looking at tons of info on the M2 I’m starting to wonder if that’s the way to go. So here are some of the specs from the ‘19 M2 C: they are using the M4 S55 engine....it’s toned down a bit from 424hp to 405hp. Torque remains the same at 406lbs. 0-60 is between 3.9 and 4.0. 1/4 mile is 12.4 seconds. Length =175.6, W=73.0, H =55.5”. It has a LOT of other compelling attributes that I won’t get into. And finally, when you “build” it with Black Sapphire, coupled with their 19” black multi spoke alloys...it looks freaking gorgeous!!

i don’t have a lot of GP specs to compare it too. That’s one of my problems. I mean I think all we really know is the GP will be “over 300hp”, and the curb weight I think is around 2900 lbs. so the main problem is I can’t just waltz into a BMW dealership and take a test drive. I checked, and there are currently 17 M2 Competition’s for sell in the US. I don’t really think I would need to drive a GP, because as you can tell by my sig below I have plenty of power already on my current JCW.

Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated. Oh, and BTW I have owned 6 Beemers prior to my JCW. Including a e36 M3, and most recently a e90 335i.

You didn’t say what you plan to do with the car. Canyon carver, street racer, going to the track, just for show?

The GP will be front wheel drive and the BMW will be rear wheel drive. On the track, RWD will always be better than FWD. Fun to drive? I would give more points to the MINI (I’ve driven an M2). More unique? Again the MINI.

I’ve posted on that other thread about the GP and I am curious what others think about this question.

Yes you are correct I should have mentioned how I plan to drive these cars. For the GP, weekend driving (I have a company car I have to use for work), definitely Auto-X racing...I live on a “cliff property”, where I can actually easily see Pacific International Raceway, so I would race, AND I’d like to do some 1/4 mile runs. Otherwise some...uh-hum....VERY spirited driving, potentially a few mods....if they’re even needed. For the M2, most likely no Auto-x, but longer weekend trips, lots of simple cruising, and again some very spirited driving. Probably some 1/4 mile runs as well. For the M2 probably even some BMW events.

Interesting....

I would have thought the M2 would make a great race/track car and, maybe, preferable over the GP in a lot of people’s eyes.. Mind if I ask if you would expand on your thoughts about the 2 cars on taking them, or not, to the track? I know my cousin really like his M2 on the track. I really like my MINI (the way it has been modded, that is) on the track. On a track where HP isn’t a big player (Lime Rock Park), we are quite similar. Just curious why you would choose the GP over the M2 for that.

I will be 100% honest on this. I had the number 1 build in .....I think it was 2007? For the e90 335i. Black Sapphire paint. The only mods I did were these incredible Morr Alloy “charcoal” 19”, 18 lb alloy wheels, dual cone CAI, and a Vishnu Procede ECU piggyback. I was at 405hp, and 420lbs of torque. I had excellent “detail” skills (still do). I became **** about driving the damn car because it was ALWAYS in perfect condition. So I know this sounds really weird, but I didn’t want to get it scratched up....or even dirty. So it became a garage queen. After 5 years, I had 3200 miles on it. Because of that, I decided to sell it. I got 45k for it. So again....very weird, but I don’t want the same thing to happen. I drive the ***** out of my JCW. It’s way too fun to let it sit in the garage. So I’m afraid if I go back to a Beemer.....I’ll start doing the same thing. I know if I go with the GP, I’ll drive it every chance I get. It’s hard to explain, it’s stupid I know, but I just don’t want another garage queen. The M2 however is still very tempting. It’s got the same engine as the M4, which if you buy the “competition” package, it’s tweaked all the way up to ~445hp, which means if the ancillary parts of the M2 can handle it, I could probably get it tuned by Mario and get the same....or close to the same hp rating. I don’t know man it’s kind of embarrassing LOL, but that’s the reason. As stupid as it is!

Not what I expected, but a good honest answer. I have a friend who told me, when I got into taking my MINI to the track,” to never take a car onto the track that you can’t afford to lose, either financially or emotionally”. When I got my 2012 I went to New Jersey Motorsports Part to try it out and to try out a track that was new to me. There was a guy there who had a Pontiac Firebird WS6 Limited Edition; serialized plate under the hood. I think it was #0001 or 2. He stuffed it into a tree backwards so hard that the radiator was damaged. He was in tears and want to get tarps to (and I quote) “cover her up so no one sees her in this condition”. Big emotional attachment, to say the least! BTW - it was a very odd accident. The tree was in the infield and about 50’ to 100’ off the track and he slid probably twice that distance, diagonally, before hitting it. While it was produced as a track car, he should have kept it as a garage queen.

As for me, I would probably not want to take the GP to the track...

Either way, it sounds like you have a fun decision to make. And I am interested in what others think about these two car.

One of the comments made about the M2 (I assume it would still apply to the M2 competition) is the favorable aspects of its smaller size and lighter weight than it larger sibling, the M3 and M4. This made it almost as fast around the track as the those larger cars and more fun in trying to be as fast. This is part of the fun with MINIs; their small size. Although, given BMW’s history for growing cars, it will only be a few generations before the MINI is based on the M8 platform and has 8 passenger seating.

Yes I went back into the BMW build site and saw that. Do you think the S55 engine could potentially come close to that hp number? Can the M2 platform handle that much power? The second question is probably the most important as far as opinions go! I think it can, but I’ve mentioned this before....I know very little about the mechanics part of these cars. The only 2 things I’m really good at are driving, and detailing.

So let me ask you this. As I mentioned earlier I can’t just walk into a BMW dealership and test drive the M2. I checked and their are currently only 17 M2’s in the country that are new, and available. I live in the Seattle area, and the closest M2 I could find was in Minnesota! So the question (finally) is can I drive a M4 (standard) and get a decent comparison to the M2? Especially with the smaller size. Do you think the exhaust note would be similar? My BMW dealership is right next to my Mini dealership (owned by the same guy), and they have 1 “standard” M4 on the lot, along with 4 M3’s. The ONLY car that would pull me away from the GP is the M2 Competition.

Hey, Most of us name our MINIs. We KNOW about emotional attachments. MINIs tend to do that to people.
And the guy with the Firebird was crying when I saw him after his accident and no one was making fun of him....

As for my comment, your response to my question was different from some “technical” comparison between the two cars, which was what I thought might be on your mind as that tends to be what is on people’s minds when they get talking about 2 car like these.

YouTube may help a little on this one. When the M2 (up thru 2018, as noted above) came out, Motor Trend did a comparison between it and the M4. I know, not quite the same as comparing the two newer versions, but they make it clear, the smaller size of the M2 is noticeable and they liked the M2 better because of that.


Chris Harris does a review of the M2 Competition and talks about the earlier M2:


Not sure if these help your thought at all, but they are fun to watch...

Also, I don’t know about dealerships around there, but here the sales person rides with you, you can only do the speed limit, no punching the gas, no noise from the tires. Not sure you will get the full “picture” from a 5 minute spin in the car with traffic all around. At least not here.

Hey I can’t thank you enough for your help with this. Obviously we don’t know each other, but I’m a pretty good judge of character, and you seem like a pretty damn nice guy. Like I said earlier, you easily could have ripped on me when I told you why I didn’t drive my 335i very much....like the Beemer sites would have done, but you chose to show some class and you’re making a effort trying to help me with my dilemma. I actually do have a SA at my BMW dealership that not only allows me to “open it up”........he actually encourages it! But my concern is that driving a M4 ***** out, won’t help me with a determination on the M2, simply due to the size difference. But I will check out what you have sent me. Again, I appreciate you doing that for me as well.

Ok here is a question for all to ponder: if you watch the Road & Track Utube video on the GP, it looks like it’s painted in black metallic, in our case “Midnight Black”. In some of the other GP articles, it appears to have some sort of dark, metallic GREY paint. So seeing that this is a limited edition, and possibly a “collector” car, would it be unwise to have it re-painted from the grey color (if that’s what it’s released as) to either a Midnight Black (Mini color) or a Black Sapphire ( BMW color)? The reason I ask is because I REALLY like the black, over the dark grey.

Would that substantially lower the value of the car?

And there is more to it than just this. If a limited edition car is produced with only one or just a few other colors, then repainting it will surely destroy its value. Years ago I worked with a guy who had a limited edition RX7 that was stolen from or work parking lot. It was found a month or so later in NYC with wheels, seats and radio missing. He asked in insurance agent why that was it. The agent said because it was limited edition and only one color they couldn’t repaint and get any good money for it. So they left it. As for wrapping it, I run track with a guy who has a flat pumpkin orange wrapped Porsche 911 GT3 RSR. Cool as anything to see for 2 or 3 seconds when it goes flying by me...

+1
For a lot of MINI owners, this is the truth. .
MINIs are about being unique, unique to you, and enjoying the ride.

You say you drive the snot out your JCW and would likely do the same with a GP. For a lot of us, that would be the end of the discussion. And then we would be asking to see pictures and YouTube posts....

You’re welcome.

The ONLY reason I even brought this up, is because I have this guy I know who ownes and operates Paramount Auto Painting. He does THE best paint jobs that I’ve ever seen. He does paint jobs exclusively for both my Mini dealership, and the BMW Dealership. My wife’s first Countryman we bought from the lot. It had EVERY package, and every option that she was going to select as a “build”. With one exception. It had a black painted body, with a white roof. Ugh! So since this was I think a 2013, and we were buying it in December of ‘13, it had a helluva price. So he repainted the white roof to black. All he did was “rough up the clear coat”, then painted it to match the body. He did an incredible job! You could not tell the difference. But I agree with eddie, I think repainting a GP would really screw up the value. So scratch that idea.

Well, I was pretty certain this was going to be the case, I guess I just wanted some reassurance.

Ok I just watched both videos. The Chris Harris one was freaking awesome! The oversteer in the M2 Competition looks to be spot on. 2 things that I really picked up from that video. The exhaust note is already incredible, so I probably wouldn’t have to upgrade that. Secondly just by carefully looking at the M2 C, it looks like by installing some spacers, say 15mm rear and 10-12 front, would really improve the look. Especially with those larger....staggered rears. From a modding standpoint, I really don’t see the need for much. Maybe a larger FMIC? I don’t know the M2 might already have a larger one.

Ok here is yet another example of my lack of knowledge on “go fast” cars. I’m typing away to you guys....such as Eddie, about trying to get somewhat of a representation of the M2 Competition by comparing it to the M4, due to them both using the s55 engine, and now I just read another article to find out that the M3 also uses the s55!! So M3’s are much easier to come by as far as test drives go. My local dealership currently has 4 2018-19.

So the question now is will I get a decent example of how the M2 performs...and sounds by driving the M3? That s55 engine gets tweaked all the way up to 454hp on the M3’s CS model. Maybe its not a good representation....there must be several different attributes of the M3 to warrant a base price of over $99,000.

$99k for a M3
I remember when the M3 was a relatively inexpensive pocket rocket with a very strong emphasis on handling. I do a lot of my track days with various chapters of BMWCCA. A couple of seasons ago the very active members were saying that BMW Corprate people were going around to these types of event to see how well the BMWs were being represented. I was told that they were truly amazed at the lack of representation by new BMWs. Most BMWs at these events are older E30 M3s, E36 M3s, E4n M3s; few if any new models. They wondered why that was. People didn’t think the question was serious as they thought that the BMW people knew what their cars had become more of a fast Boulevard car than a track orientated car like the original M3. The M2 was highly praised for being the resorection of that older M3 mystique. I am not sure where today’s M3s and M4s stand in the lineup as to whether they have moved back to their roots or not.

This is kind of a long way saying, I think you will will get limited feel for what the M2 handles like from driving the M3 or M4. Their sounds and acceleration will be similar but if you are looking at tuning the M2, it will be quicker. Has for handling, I found my cousin’s M2 to be much like my MINI; light and very responsive. So, maybe by already having a JCW, you already have an appreciation for how an M2 will handle and feel like on the road. Now, the only thing that you will need to look at getting from the test drive is a feel of the acceleration and the sounds. If you have the option and the dealer doesn’t mind, take both the M3 and M4 out for a test drive.

Just a thought.

On a side note, these BMW engine performances differences out of the same engine reminds me of all of the options Chevy had for their small block 327. I think that engine was produced with 210, 250, 275, 325, 365 and 375 hp variations, and likely others.

Since I got hooked on the f56 JCW, I don’t think I’ve been on a M3 build site, or even looked at their specs. When I saw the $99,000+ base price for the current M3, I was shocked. Do you remember in the time frame where they were selling their new 335 line? e90, 92, 93....ect, this was the time period where they didn’t even offer a M3. It simply wasn’t available, until I believe their new M3 was released in 2008? Maybe 2009? Well that’s when I bought my 335i. Completely loaded, with every package, or option you could get. My “out the door price” was $54,000. Now in my case, I was number 1 on the e90 build list (4 door sedan), and my car was delivered, prepped, and ready to go, 1 week before they contacted me. It had ~150 miles on it. I was told that my car was the first e90 to be shipped to the state of Washington. As you can imagine I was furious. They took $2000 off the price, and installed my alarm for no fee for me. That included the $1500 alarm itself.

My my point here is when the M3 did come out, my SA really tried hard to sell me one. It’s sticker price at that time was roughly $63,000. What the hell has happened...to one of the most iconic cars in history??? $107,000 for a 2018? Are you freaking kidding me? So to Eddie, yes I will arrange for a test drive, but for the sole purpose of trying to evaluate the s55 engine.

So another question: do you think mods will be needed to push this s55 engine up to its capabilities? Do you think I would still need to get the standard stuff, exhaust, FMIC, downpipe, cold plugs? The tune is not a question. I would simply have Mario write me a flash tune. But what about the other stuff I mentioned? It would be nice to NOT have to add all these mods, and simply load up a tune.

Another update. I just got off the phone with my BMW SA who sold me my 335i. So I haven’t spoken with him for roughly 10 years. He is semi-retired, working only on Wednesday’s. So during our conversation, he tells me he’s sitting next to a SA that currently ownes a ‘19 M3, but he did own a M2. Now obviously his old M2 did not have the s55 engine, but they put me on speaker and he gave me a brief comparison on the M2, vs the new M3 with the s55 engine. He told me that the exhaust note on the current M3 is “pretty much identical to what it will be on the new M2 Competition”.

He also told me that BMW is about to start a “national tour”, where they will be traveling to BMW dealerships all over the US. Similar to what Mini did with their new Countryman S All4. They will be touring 4 different BMW models. Remember that CM they traveled around with that had that God awful color combo...blue body with the white top? So the BMW travel team will be at my local dealership for 1 week, sometime this August. So knowing that the GP builds aren’t even going to start until early 2020, I’m going to have some time.