I am looking into the Escort ZR3 diffusor with maybe the 8500. These cars want to go fast what are you all using?

 

8500 hot wired to the fusebox.

 

10% over the posted limitHas worked for 30 years

 

Valentine One convert here. I won't leave my driveway without it. As yet I have not seen a laser detector that does anything more than allow a momentary warning, sort of a "please get your license and registration ready". I would be interested in hearing any true, real life stories of effective laser diffusion or advanced detection.

 

I have the Valentine one, it is more expensive then the other models out there but it has many more features, it is very advanced. After it saves you a few times, it has paid for itself. I think it is by far the best radar detector that you can buy.

 

I agree wholeheartedly on the V1. Knowing what direction the signal is coming from is SO worth it... For laser, it'll show you whether it was front or back (I believe), but like people have said here, by the time you detect it, the cops have already got your speed.

 

I read that the Valentine 1 doesn't sense the new BEE III radars at all. I live less than 2 hrs from Nevada, and visit there often. Supposedly 40% of their highway patrol is equipped with these "killer" BEEs, so the V1 just isn't an option for me. I'm thinking RX65 or Escort 8500.

...if I were to buy one at all. I rarely drive more than 8mph over anyway. (The MCS may change that.) OTOH, there's my wife - she drives my Caravan at 85. What's she going to do when she gets behind the wheel of the MINI?

Interesting articles on RadarTest.com (Browse around the site for other info, too.)

 

I've had a V1 for the last 6 years, after having used several other Radar Detectors over the years (from the original Escort to the later Passports) I won't use anything else.

The issue with it not picking up the BEE III's may be that they're using the less accurate (but faster to aquire the approx speed) POP mode. The police are supposed to re-confirm the speed after the initial POP reading with the standard instant-on mode for a REAL reading, dunno if they actually do though. I'd sent my older V1 in for the upgrade ($189) and the new one they sent to me says it does pick up POP now. Maybe your V1 is an older model like the one I'd just upgraded?

I haven't heard that they're using POP out here in CA yet.

Dave

 

I've noticed that in the past few months, the state cops in my state (MA) have acquired an alarming number of laser units. They're friggin' everywhere on the highways. Most of the locals seem to still have standard radar units, and some of the state cops have moving radar (but I seldom see them using it)...but you can't go out without seeing at least one cop standing there aiming at traffic with a laser gun. I guess I know where some of that "homeland security" money has gone in this state. I pray for truly cold weather as I suspect that it'll drive 'em back into the toasty warmth of the cruisers.

BUT, am I hearing it correctly that even the V1 doesn't do much against laser? I'm asking about laser being used in reasonably heavy traffic. I realize that if you're the only car on the road and they fire at you, you're toast. But will a V1 pick up laser being used against cars ahead of me...or will an Escort 8500 do an equally good job? I'm thinking I need one or the other as in 30 years of driving I've not seen the number of speed traps I've seen over the past year. (and it's not just the MCS )

Answer = don't drive the MINI. I can routinely do 80 - 90 in my Caravan (actually, T&C...same diff) and drive through a dozen traps with narry a cop aiming anything at me (they aim at the cars next to me). But the MCS is ALWAYS the first car picked out of the crowd...unless there's also a motocycle in the crowd. Cost (oh boy is it...) of ownership I suppose.

 

The state patrol in Ga is all about Laser. The buzzer telling you that you are busted does not help. The diffusors from passport and K 40 are supposed to be very good. before I buy I would ike to hear some real life stories

 

jsun,

Last summer when the cops in my area were trial testing laser (in the end they didn't acquire it, at least not as their primary means of speed enforcement) I had numerous occasions to try out my V1's usefulness against laser. If I was the second car in line (directly behind the intended target) I would get some detection through the "scatter" of the laser via the windshield of the targeted vehicle. Further back, no dice. Also two other points, when shot from behind by laser (the most effective means, as you have already passed the cops and they have "runners" to pick you up down the road; you are, in a word, TOAST. Nothing I know of short of real diffusion will ever be effective against this type of laser enforcement. And point two, some vehicles, particularly BMWs and SUV Dodge and Chevrolets with backup distance protection or darkend rear lights and third brake lights set off my laser detector. This is at least an annoyance, at most it ruins the ability of my laser detector to spot the speed traps.

 

Thanks MGCMAN, that's useful, real-life, info.

Now, does anyone else have any experience confirming or denying MGCMAN's?

Also, what exactly is "true diffusion"? I've always been super skeptical of any device that claims to jam, diffuse, or otherwise cloak my car to speed enforcement devices. The few reviews I've read about these things have also seemed to dismiss them as hogwash.

 

True diffusion, I think can only be accomplished in two ways. The first is to make a vehicle which doesn't have rounded surfaces (the air force made a plane like that once, all angles and such). The way radar works is that when the beam hits your car, there is always a point on your car which is exactly perpendicular to the incoming beam - so when it bounces off, it is sent directly back to the radar gun, and they register your speed. Making a car with no rounded surfaces gives you a better chance that when the beam hits, no area of your car will be perpendicular to the incoming beam. Nobody makes a car like that, however.

The second way to beat radar is to make it so that the beam doesn't bounce off your car. The military does this by use of a special material they coat their planes with. When light of a specific frequency (i.e., radar) hits it, the photons are absorbed and converted to heat. This is what I think they mean by "true diffusion". I don't see how any mechanical device the size of a radar detector could possibly make a difference; it would have to absorb the ENTIRE beam to capture it, and then do something with the energy.

I suppose someone could have a radar transmitter, which is constantly emitting radar of the right frequency, thereby blocking out the cop's unit with noise, but that would be real easy to detect and probably illegal. It cuts into police profits.

 

go to www.speedzones.com

They did an allegedly independent review of radar detectors and laser detectors; as well as laser defense products.

Some good info on understanding the Bee mode as well as how Laser Guns actually work.

Although the V1 is not their top rated detector, after reading all the tests and the valentine stuff; its going to be my choice. From personal experience, I think the ability to "see" multiple radars is well worth it...

MacGuruTX

 

Have you checked out K40 or passports laser diffusor and read the "white paper"?

 

LilOleCar has it almost right - all objects have what is known as a "radar cross section" (RCS), or the apparent size or reflectivity of the object to a radar system. Actually rounded shapes have a fairly low RCS since the area that is directly reflecting the signal back to the source is fairly small and reflects the signal back in a divergent pattern.

But, believe it or not, the largest contributing factor to RCS are seams, edges and openings. The gap between the hood and fenders, the gaps at the doors, the edges of the windshield, headlights, the grill opening, etc. all contribute to the RCS more than the overall shape of the object.

The stealth planes have a lower RCS because they have eliminated or masked the reflectance of the edges, seams and openings, in addition to having a low RCS shape. Look at the differences in shape between USAF's Stealth Fighter (flat panels) and the B-2 bomber (smooth rounded shapes) - both have very low RCS's.

The reason laser is so much more effective is that the beam is much more coherent than a radar beam. Coherency is the amount by which the beam spreads as it travels. Laser, by definition, is very coherent, so the power in the beam decreases very little as it propogates through space. More power in the beam means it's easier to detect the return signal, so laser systems can get accurate speed measurements with only one or two pulses.

Radar, on the other hand, starts out as a radio signal (non-coherent) and has to be forced into a beam by the antenna. To get the same effective power concentration in a radar beam would require a fairly large antenna, even at the frequencies used by radar guns. So, in order to get accurate speed measurement, the speed has to be measured and averaged over numerous pulses, hence you (and your radar detector) have more time to detect it and slow down.

So, what's the answer to all of this? The laser "diffusers" are just plain BS. The only way to fool either laser or radar is to jam it with either very high power electromagnetic noise (way more power than you can generate in your car), or with a signal that is similar to, but stronger than, the expected return signal. Radar jamming is pretty easy and there have been numerous articles on the web over the years on how to build one. Generating a laser jamming signal is also pretty easy, but since laser is so coherent, the difficult (if not impossible) part is aiming a jamming signal back to the gun accurately. You could design a jamming system with a divergent jamming beam, so that the aiming wouldn't be as critical, but since the energy is divergent, the inital power would have to be very high.

My solution is +10mph and leave it at that (but I also have a detector, just in case!!). Just my $0.02...

 

I haven't paid much attention to highway radar in a long time. (I've been driving a minivan for the last 15 years, and rarely go more than 5-7mph over.) It has been a l-o-n-g time (late 60s, early70s), but I remember an article in one of the car mags (probably R&T, which I subscribed to for many years back then). They got ahold of some radar absorbent material, back when this stuff first came out, and jury rigged panels of the stuff to the front of a car (Porsche 911, ISTR) and did some radar tests. It made a significant difference.

Here's my understanding of the state of the art:

Let's say you have a radar detector that uses exactly the same circuit as the cop's radar gun. He sends out a beam that bounces off your car and back to his gun. Let's also assume that you have to get within 1/4 mile of him before there's a strong enough signal coming back to him before he can get a reading.

So, at the "detection threshold" (a term I just made up) the beam travels 1/4 mile to your car and 1/4 mile back to him. A total of 1/2 mile. If you have exactly the same circuit in your detector that he has in his gun, that means you should be able to detect his signal from 1/2 a mile away, a 1/4 of a mile before he can get a reading on you. That's the basic idea behind radar detectors.

Of course, you should be able to detect him much farther away, because you are getting his beam straight from the gun, and he's getting a reflected beam (much of which is scattered in other directions) off your car. So he's getting a weaker signal.

That's the whole idea: to increase that "gap" between the time when your detector first detects the beam, and the time when your car is close enough to reflect a signal back to the cop that's strong enough for him to get a reading on you.

There are two basic ideas behind stealth aircraft, as far as "passive" measures go. (As opposed to "active" countermeasures such as jamming.) One is to reflect as little beam back to the source as possible. That's why the first stealth fighter had all those crazy angles. The other is to use special materials that absorb the radar signal as much as possible.

You can't do much to change the shape of your car, but you may be able to enhance its absorption. (That was the idea behind the R&T project I mentioned earlier.) One of the main things that reflects a radar beam (or laser, for that matter) is the front license plate - a big flat surface pointed right. I seem to recall seeing license plate covers that are supposed to absorb microwaves, while still letting visible light through. Seems to me that could really make a difference, assuming they really do work.

That's my understanding of these things. I'd be happy to hear any corrections or further elaborations!

 

I have a cobra. Today, for the first time it went off and said "Laser". I thought It was a construction crew I was passing, but down the road a bit, there they were...boys in blue playing with a new toy.

Knowing what I do about physical science (teacher), I would say that if your instrument says "lazer"- you are toast.... Charred, burned, blackened toast!

 

Jsun,
I think your talking about incident radiation. I guess it is possible for a unit to pick up incident radiation from laser. But....one- it is far less likely than other radar, and two, I'm sure the users are training to minimize even what little incident radiation is present. I don't really think there is any way to have any protection from this. If you do pick up any advance warning at all...I would say that it is pure luck...not a function of any particular detector.

 

a couple months after i bought the MINI, i got hit doing 52 in a 35. the day after I picked up an Escort 8500 X50. No tickets since then (knocks on wood). Had it hardwired, and no problems ever since. It is very sensitive on the automatic setting that comes default from the factory, but the sensitvity for each band can be adjusted by the user to become this ultimate detector

Also, the X50 has spot-on detection or something of that nature, that when the cop tries to tag right then and there, it warns you..i have no idea how that works.

in the end, I love it

 

Again, a disclaimer that I haven't paid much attention to the state of the art for the last 15 years of driving a minivan...

But here's how I think these things (radar and radar detectors) are supposed to work...

I think pretty much all radar units these days are "pulsed" (my term) in that they aren't always on, but only come on for a brief moment when the cop pulls the trigger. The cop wants to be close enough that he'll get you on the first try (so even if you have a detector, it'll be too late - he'll already have you), but far enough away that you won't see him and slow down before he pulls the trigger.

There are a lot of different laser variations - shorter and shorter bursts and narrower beams (ie, laser) - that try to minimize the "incident" signals that J-Didi mentions, but I think that's exactly what you're hoping to detect. My understanding is that what you're hoping to detect is not the cop pulling the trigger to get you but rather, some stray beams left over from when he tried to get the guy in front of you.

(Someone correct me if that isn't right?)

So if you're speeding down some country road all by yourself and there's no one in front of you for miles, and you come upon a radar trap and the cop zaps you before you make him visually... well, as J-Didi put it... you're toast!

One of the nice things about a MINI is that it's small. The cop is going to have to let you get pretty close before he pulls the trigger. If he pulls it too soon, you'll be warned and be able to slow down. If he pulls it too late, hopefully, you'll have seen him and slowed down already.

 

LombardStreet
You are absolutely correct. The radar detector is non discriminatory in that it picks up RF in specific frequency ranges, otherwise known as X, K, and KA bands for radar guns. So the goal is to pick up cars getting hit around you. Since, as someone mentioned earlier, a radar beam has significant spread, your odds of picking it up are significantly better then a laser.

The Instant-on detection isn't doing anything differently, then a constant on detection. Just tuning in the microprocessor that says if you see a K/KA band for x time then alert the user.

I was surprised in the Speedzone tests how, relatively, close a laser gun is designed to operate in. They talk about some specific products to apply to the license plate and front headlights that signficantly reduce laser return. It'll buy you some seconds if you did get a Laser alert, but seconds is all we are talking about.

Best strategy is not to be out there on the road alone. Think of every car out there as an exploratory probe for you. Most officers will look to hit the loners, whether they using stand-alone or moving guns. It makes it simpler to pick out the speeding car, versus shooting a pack and being unable to defend the ticket if it is challenged.

Of course, here in Texas, it is not unheard of for a State Trooper to pull over 3 or 4 cars at once through sheer willpower and bluff.

 

With V-1 and Escort ZR-3 combo, so far so good!

 

Anyone see Fifth Gear on Speed Monday night? They did a test of radar & laser detectors available in the UK against handhelds and Gatsos. The final test was of a Laser "detector/jammer" that mounted a transmitter on the front of your car (in the grill or under the license tag). It effectively alerted on the laser a couple cars ahead and automatically turns the transmitter off after its done its thing... when tested it effectively made the handheld laser read out in an error code! F'n cool. I think it was about 350 pounds ($550USD)...

 

Laser - Unless you own a dark colored MC, darken out the head/tail lights, and remove any chrome, you are going to get nailed before you can slow down enough (laser is most accurate against bright colors, glasss and chrome). Don't waste the money, put it into a pulley and cold air intake upgrade and boogie.

Radar - I recommend the Escort 8500 X50. I read just about every comparison to the Valentine 1 and the bottom line of all the reviews was that the Escort beat the Valentine in all but one category as far as advanced detection and falsing. While Valentine's ability to show you direction(and that is not an absolute, it can easily false a direction) is a nice perk, what's more important, detecting a radar beam as soon as possible or knowing the approximate direction at the risk of being tagged? I have the X50 and I am constantly astounded as to how far in advance it picks up the cops radar.