Ok, so Trippy brought up a great point in the V1 radar detector review topic and the subject started to get derailed.... so I figured I'd start a new thread dedicated to the "debate". Actually, two separate issues which I will detail below.

Here's the scenario:

Driving down an interstate at the high end of your personal comfortable speed (in this case 75-80mph) and someone in a large SUV (I used the Caddy Excessive as an example) in front of you whips out a cell phone and starts weaving in and out of traffic as their attention wanes. Is it safer to:

A) Hit the gas and accelerate past a speed at which you would normally drive for a few seconds (80-90mph in this case) to pass
the person and avoid rear-ending whatever mess they might cause down the road.

B) Continue at your comfort speed, and hope for the best as far as the idiot is concerned.

This also leads to the second point of contention... how much does local traffic flow (or average speed) effect our perceptions of what is "too fast" as far as driving is concerned? In other words, if people in ABC area drive (on average) 15-20 mph slower than people in area XYZ, is it reasonable that people from ABC should be surprised at the high driving speeds of those XYZ folks or are they just driving relative to the local conditions?

Given that information, do you think speed is the CAUSE of accidents, or an aggravating factor thereof (i.e. stupidity and lack of attention is the cause, speed makes it worse)?

I'm looking for an honest, intelligent discussion here because I'm truly curious about how people from different areas view speed and speeding. Make sure to include some details about the location (and traffic flow) of your normal driving locale; and please, no zealots EITHER way. "Don't speed because it's illegal" isn't going to cut it here either.... lot's of things are illegal, it doesn't necessarily mean they're "wrong" :smile:

 

I like this topic - and intend to contrbute - but can we get it moved to Off Topic?

 

I know that in Washington State the law allows you to drive faster than the speed limit in order to pass someone. I'm not sure if this applies to the interstate though. However, I think if you were nice and explained the situation to the cop, being sure to use the word "sir" often, they might understand and go easy on you.

 

To answer the first question, I think it's a bad idea to try and pass someone that's driving erraticly. If you fall back and stay behind them, they can't hit you. Worst case scenario, they wipe out and you have time to react and avoid the mess. If you try to go around, you could get run off the road or crashed into.

To answer the second question, I think speed is usually an aggravating factor. The primary factors are things like recklessness and inattention. If you're going 50 MPH and you spill your coffee/answer your phone/drop a CD it's not as dangerous as doing the same at 80 mph. The faster you're going the less time you have to react.

That's why Atlanta, for instance, is horrible. People go 80 bumper to bumper on the beltway, so when something goes wrong no one has time or distance to react. Then you get multiple car pile-ups.

 

moved to OT:A

 

>>To answer the first question, I think it's a bad idea to try and pass someone that's driving erraticly. If you fall back and stay behind them, they can't hit you. Worst case scenario, they wipe out and you have time to react and avoid the mess. If you try to go around, you could get run off the road or crashed into.
>>
>>To answer the second question, I think speed is usually an aggravating factor. The primary factors are things like recklessness and inattention. If you're going 50 MPH and you spill your coffee/answer your phone/drop a CD it's not as dangerous as doing the same at 80 mph. The faster you're going the less time you have to react.
>>
>>That's why Atlanta, for instance, is horrible. People go 80 bumper to bumper on the beltway, so when something goes wrong no one has time or distance to react. Then you get multiple car pile-ups.

That's exactly the sort of thing I was looking for :smile:

Are you, by chance, also an Atlanta resident? The reason I ask, is that in the other thread Trippy found it hard to believe (I guess) that people DID drive an AVERAGE of 80mph with 70-ish being on the slow end.

In that instance, do you think it is safer to follow the flow of traffic (at 80) or to hang back and risk getting hit by virtue of going "too slow" for the surrounding traffic?

 

I live in Los Angeles and traffic here averages 75 to 80 (when it's not crawling along at 5 mph) . There are times you can be going with the flow of traffic in the left two lanes at 80 to 90 mph.

 

A)would you pass it?

Yes I would. I think this is the same as when it's raining and there's a semy in front of you and it's spraying water all over the place...for the few seconds it take to pass him, you are in some danger, but you are a lot safer once you are on the other side.
With the person swirving from side to side, it's the same thing...HOWEVER, that person might decide to speed up once they see a teeny weeni mini pass them.

B) is there a perception of speed?

Of course there is...just go up to a 3 digit speed and slow back down to posted max speed...it'll seem like you're crawling. But I think if "everyone" is doing 80mph, your passengers won't feel it. But of people are doing 80 and you are passing them (or if people are doing 50 and you are passing them) then you are "speeding" and that might scare some people.

L

 

>>I live in Los Angeles and traffic here averages 75 to 80 (when it's not crawling along at 5 mph) . There are times you can be going with the flow of traffic in the left two lanes at 80 to 90 mph.


It's exactly the same around here (Atlanta). It's either full-bore 80ish mph or parking lot, pick one.

To relate it to my question, in that situation, do you feel it is unsafe to travel with the flow of traffic? I was told (in the other thread) that was entirely too fast and I was being a danger to others, but from my perspective I don't see it that way...

samawil: Exactly my point... so someone accustomed to driving on 55-65mph roads would be quite taken by the driving speed of most folks aorund here, because to THEM it would seem very fast; whereas here it is simply average.

 

>>I know that in Washington State the law allows you to drive faster than the speed limit in order to pass someone.

Oddly enough my last speeding ticket was in WA state (Northbound I-5 in Tacoma just south of the Tacoma Mall) back in the early 90's. And I was passing a slower vehicle...I still was ticketed...

 

No, I'm not in Atlanta. I'm in Tallahassee.

I've driven all over the country, in many urban, suburban, and rural roads. I learned to drive on the supercrowded roads of New Jersey.

I think that as long as you're going within 5-10 mph of most other vehicles on the road, you're OK. There are lots of highways where people go 80 in a 55 or what have you. If eveyone is going 80+ and you're going 55, one coudl actually argue that going too slow is causing a road hazard!

As for the passing thing, I agree that it's OK to pass a semi as in the case mentioned above. In that case the vehicle being passed is travelling in a straight line and staying in its lane. I still think it's a bad idea to try to pass a car that's weaving though. That could get you in trouble. It's really a judgment call, based on the behavior of the vehicle in question.

 

Read the other thread. One person posted that he would put a speed limiter on his car for $400. Well a limiter is definately possible. But why would you need $400? If safety is your concern then you should do it immediately.

If you haven't then, I guess safety isn't your main concern.

I have driven on the autobahn, speed doesn't kill poor drivers do. Our driver's dont pay enough attention to move to the right for faster traffic.

Driving recklessly and going faster than an arbitraliy decided speed limit are not one and the same.


Paul

 

Actually, it was more like if he put an 80mph speed limiter on his car, he get a $400 rebate off of insurance.. Hypothetically, of course, and I don't think any insurance company would do that.

For me, if the insurance companies gave a rebate if you put a speed limiter in your car at 80, I'd do it. Not on the MINI, but probably on any other vehicle used to get from A to B only.

I have to agree with you that most driver's here in the states don't seem to pay much attention when they drive. Across the pond, in Canada, and in Australia, I've encountered much more attentive driving. Some of it safe, some of it not. Maybe it's the graduated licensing, which I'm a fan of. Here in NorCal I was surprised to see that anyone can get a license if they take a 15 minute driving test!

>>Read the other thread. One person posted that he would put a speed limiter on his car for $400. Well a limiter is definately possible. But why would you need $400? If safety is your concern then you should do it immediately.
>>
>> If you haven't then, I guess safety isn't your main concern.
>>
>>I have driven on the autobahn, speed doesn't kill poor drivers do. Our driver's dont pay enough attention to move to the right for faster traffic.
>>
>> Driving recklessly and going faster than an arbitraliy decided speed limit are not one and the same.
>>
>>
>>Paul

 

Generally speaking, I'm much happier being in front of a reckless driver. Especially if they are side to side weavers. But I'm not sure I'd take the chance on passing someone like that. It's likely much riskier to execute the pass than to drop back and hope to be able to react.

A side note...Does anyone besides me have the number for the highway patrol for their area programmed into their cell phone? I did this because of one psycho driver I wanted reported.

 

>>I have driven on the autobahn, speed doesn't kill poor drivers do. Our driver's dont pay enough attention to move to the right for faster traffic.
>>
>> Driving recklessly and going faster than an arbitraliy decided speed limit are not one and the same.

Which is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make over there before I totally derailed the thread :smile:

I too, have been on the autobahn. Once you do, you come back with a whole new appreciation for how highways *should* work. People travel easily double the speed they do here, yet it all seems MUCH safer and more refined.

Trippy was basically making the point that more speed = more accidents and therefore speeding is "bad" and no one should ever do it. I think that driving at ANY speed successfully depends entirely on the coordination and attentiveness of the individual driver and those immediately surrounding him/her. I promise, I am MUCH more safe to be around on the highway at 80 than most SUV-driving, cell phone holding, makeup-applying soccer moms are at 60 or even 50mph.

 

OK, Juan, I've finally gotten time to read this thread. Thanks for creating it.

I think you misunderstood my intent.

I think that the average driver is more dangerous going 80 MPH than he or she is going 65 MPH.

It sounds like you agree with me because you keep talking about how all the other drivers are all distracted by cellphones etc.

Going 55 MPH when the speed of other traffic is 80 MPH is not safe. (Going 80 isn't safe either, but what are you going to do?)

This is WAY WAY too much of a religious issue to settle here, but I am going to stick with my thoughts that in the real world on american highways with american drivers in typical settings that going 80 MPH is simply not as safe as going 70 MPH.

You seem to want to race on the highways. I don't, and I would prefer it if you wouldn't either, but what can I do about it other than calling the cops when you fly by?

When something in the neighborhood of 45,000 people die in car accidents annually, I think just following the speed limit or at least 70 MPH and below is a reasonable thing to do.

I don't know how old you are, but I think as people get older, they tend to thing driving 80 MPH on the highway is not suck a good idea anymore. If you're an old fart like me, and you think 80 MPH is fine, you're an outlier. More power to you old man!

 

My nikels worth is that I drive at 12 MPH over the limit on an Interstate. I find that speed to be a) cop safe and b) moron safe. I do not adjust my speed for someone else. If I witness unacceptable behavior, I call it in to the cops. Erratic drivers are most likely drunk drivers and I invariably call those in, with mile post, brand and licence plate. If I want to avoid sharing the road with someone, I stop for five minutes, check my car over and motor on......

 

I recently visited the Dragon..
I got my 1st speeding ticket in 31 years....on my way down.
I was doing 79 in a 65 zone...in Va. @ 4:00 AM.
By the letter of the law I was indeed.... speeding.
I was notified that if I was at 80 MPH I would have been arrested in Va.... on a "reckless driver" charge. How bizzare!!!!
I came from a 70 zone to a 65 zone and honestly didn't notice the change of speedlimit. I usually drive.... just shy of 10 mph over the posted speed limit.
I do not think I was being reckless@ all. I was in the center lane alone.... no cars.. no trucks...nobody :smile:
I was.... IMHO.... not derserving of this ticket... but life happens.
Wrong place @ the wrong time...

 

>>My nikels worth is that I drive at 12 MPH over the limit on an Interstate. I find that speed to be a) cop safe and b) moron safe. I do not adjust my speed for someone else. If I witness unacceptable behavior, I call it in to the cops. Erratic drivers are most likely drunk drivers and I invariably call those in, with mile post, brand and licence plate. If I want to avoid sharing the road with someone, I stop for five minutes, check my car over and motor on......

PRO, if you change that 12MPH to a 5-10MPH, you describe my driving philosophy exactly.
It's like we're twins or something!. (That's a joke for the OT::Politics readers)

If I'm in the middle lane all by my lonesome and someone comes up on my butt, I pullin the right lane and slow down. Sometimes I get to

 

Read the replies. It seems the agreement is that those that drive outside the flow of traffic or erratically are the menance. Not someone that drives faster than a speed limit.

Older? Well that waht the right lane is for.

If everyone drove with the thought if I'm slower than the guy behind me I'll move to the right traffic would be smooth.

There is only one time speed is a safety factor, when you are outdiving your visibility/braking capacity.

Paul

 

>>You seem to want to race on the highways. I don't, and I would prefer it if you wouldn't either, but what can I do about it other than calling the cops when you fly by?
>>
>>When something in the neighborhood of 45,000 people die in car accidents annually, I think just following the speed limit or at least 70 MPH and below is a reasonable thing to do.
>>
>>I don't know how old you are, but I think as people get older, they tend to thing driving 80 MPH on the highway is not suck a good idea anymore. If you're an old fart like me, and you think 80 MPH is fine, you're an outlier. More power to you old man!
>>

And you seem to have misunderstood MY intent. I do not "race on the highways"... but I DO, most certainly, keep with the normal flow of traffic in the left two lanes (where I usually drive). I don't go either much slower, OR much faster than whatever traffic is immediately surrounding me. And honestly, if you were to call the cops simply because I was doing 80-ish (with the rest of traffic, not swerving, talking on cell, or otherwise distracted) in the left lane.... I would label that a MAJORLY *******-ish thing to do.

I've seen what happens when people around here drive too slowly (especially in the left lanes)... people flip them off, honk, and usually swerve around them at high speeds. While I don't condone any of that behavior (it IS unsafe) the fact is that person driving slowly IS causing a road hazzard simply by pissing off others. To me, it is safer to keep with the flow of traffic and just agree with everyone else (but to each his own).

And my final point is this... as myself (and others in this thread) have mentioned (I believe) speed isn't the CAUSE of those 45,000 fatality accidents each year. Inattentive drivers who do stupid things are. I am not one of those drivers. I therefore believe it is perfectly acceptable to drive at any speed that is in keeping with the flow of any given lane of traffic.

For the record, I AM young (22). There are, however, some "old-farts" who believe as I do and keep with traffic whenever possible; my father being one of them (53 this year).

 

The speed limit was seventy for people driving 60's Corvairs. The speed limit is seventy for people driving 2002 MC(S)s. Which is safer?
Cars and tires have gotten immensely better, thus safer. Drivers, on the other hand...
I've driven on the autobahn :smile: at 110 for three hours. Never felt safer.
In the US I do 70-80 depending on conditions, but am often hugging the right lane. I'd much rather have cops pulling over erratic drivers than people exceeding the speed limit.

I cringe at the 'safety' crowd quoting 'speed related' accidents. EVERY accident is speed related. If nobody was moving, they wouldn't get into an accident!

 

>>Cars and tires have gotten immensely better, thus safer. Drivers, on the other hand...
>>I've driven on the autobahn :smile: at 110 for three hours. Never felt safer.

Comparing driving in different parts of the world is fraught with difficulties. yes parts of the Autobahns are great....other parts not so hot....and if you ever see a wreck in the autobahn....it aint pretty.....At 70 or 80, you don't need an inventory sheet so as to pick up the body parts. More to the point, driving in Europe is a privilege aand people are thoroughly trained for it. Driving in the US is a god given right and at best, most people know how to operate an automobile, which is a far cry from knowing how to drive an automobile.
Trippy, yep, we could be twins.......so a piece of advice....never travel slowly or leisurely in the middle lane.....that is what is called a "moving chicane". Middle lane driving, even on a deserted highway will get you at least a warning if not a ticket in the UK. Why? cuz if a faster guy comes up on your right, you force him to either pass you on your blind side or move two lanes......not a flame....

 

I hear you PRO, but I disagree.

Travelling along in the center lane lets faster traffic pass on the left and allows entering and exiting traffic to go more slowly on the right. Saver all the way around.

Like the baby bear said "It's Juuuust right"

This is only valid for 3-lane highways where there is not enought traffic to have people travelling faster than me in the center lane. (your mileage may vary, not valid in Alaska, Hawaii or other US protectorates)

 

>>I hear you PRO, but I disagree.
>>
>>Travelling along in the center lane lets faster traffic pass on the left and allows entering and exiting traffic to go more slowly on the right. Saver all the way around.
>>
>>Like the baby bear said "It's Juuuust right"
>>
>>This is only valid for 3-lane highways where there is not enought traffic to have people travelling faster than me in the center lane. (your mileage may vary, not valid in Alaska, Hawaii or other US protectorates)

Fair enough......just don't do it in the UK.......I swear.....I have been pulled over, TWICE in the middle of the night on the M-40. the second time i argued and had the lecture from the constable......