I know recycled parts are used -- Leif's passenger side headlight came from some other woe begotten Jetta. I don't consider that any big deal. What I'd love to have explained is the apparently sudden distance that some body shops are putting between themselves and State Farm's preferred service list. Why would a body shop -- let alone several -- deliberately limit their potential business if, as you stated previously, nothing has changed?

Enquiring minds, and all that.

 

Yeah, I can only speak for the shops I know, but aside from the place I am talking about I could no longer find any of the body shops that do high end work, or the ones who do work for and are recommended by the local Euro dealers (including Mini SF) on the list.

 

I assume you're talking about our "Select Service" program.

Trust me, no shops are distancing themselves from that program. It's a huge financial boost for them to be in our program.

State Farm is the one who decides who GETS to be in the program. They have to meet strict criteria in regards to training, quality, and service.

But even some of the best shops in a given area are not selected. They can be disqualified if they don't have enough technicians, repair bays, etc. Or if the area already has "x' number of shops in the program.

Good question though.

 

???

So has State Farm suddenly decided that body shops understood to be quality aren't any longer?

 

No... not necessarily. See my previous post as to why shops get dropped off the program.

For an example of a reason shops might be removed that have nothing to do with the drop in quality:

Let's say a shop has a great reputation for the quality of their work. Because of that, their customer base grows significantly. But they have no way to increase capacity through expansion of the shop and/or the hiring of additional technicians. The backlog causes them to be unable to meet reasonable time frames to complete repairs. They no longer meet that critical requirement to be on the program and are subsequently removed.

That's just one example of a reason why a shop might be removed but is in no way intended to lead you to believe it is the most common reason.

 

Haven't read all the posts here, but my wife has been a claims adj. and a litigator for Allied/Nationwide for the last 20 years, here is what she said to me about this: "Allied/Nationwide uses non-OEM (factory) parts for bumpers, fenders and other non-mechanical parts, but only if CAPA certified. We will use used parts, but not mechanical or moving parts (such as suspension parts). We do sell an endorsement that can be purchased requiring the company to use factory parts. It is worth paying the extra charge." Hope this helps if anyone was interested.

 

Just spoke with my SF Agent. She said that some months back (doesn't remember how many for sure but she thought 6), State Farm changed their program (Select Service?) with the body shops and as a result many were dropped. She said this wasn't to reduce the quality of the shops used but rather to increase the quality. They changed it to where they wanted stronger guarantees on timeframes, prices, and warranties.

She could speak about the claims process and the parts used as she doesn't have anything to do with that but she forwarded my email on to people who could respond. So now I'm waiting for that.

 

Yeah, or "old" program was called "Service First".

Reduced the number of shops in the program... allows our Estimatics Supervisors to more closely monitor the shops that do participate... hopefully, the result is increased quality.

You can wait for a response to that e-mail or you can read what I already wrote and ask me any more questions you have. You have a SF Claim Adjuster right here.

 

It may have already been mentioned and I am just missing it...does SF offer any type of endorsement in regards to OEM parts?

 

Listen, all of my experiences with State Farm have been good. Honestly. They've looked out for me on more than one occasion when they could have hung me out to dry for good reason. I have noting against State Farm.

But I'm the kinda guy that when someone whom I believe to be reputable brings up a questionable situation, well I like to look into it. I'm glad you are on here and posting some answers. But its always best to get answers from two independent sources so you know if everything is as it should be.

What you said and my agent said about the body shops matches up. I'm just waiting to hear about the parts business.

The NON-OEM doesn't really bother me as long as the look, funtionality and quality is equal. It's the used parts that bothers me tremendously.

 

Used cosmetic / non-mechanical bits (i.e. Leif's headlight) are a-ok in my book, assuming their quality is in keeping with the quality of my vehicle. As for mechanical bits, I would much prefer -- I would, most likely, be willing to switch ins. cos, I so prefer -- new bits. As Val stated when she posted initially, I'd rather not have one shock off a wrecked "comparable" MINI, when the quality of that shock cannot be proven other than to compare the mileage on the "donor" vehicle to the mileage on my MINI.

I would be more than willing to switch to an ins. co. that does not use salvage mechanical bits, even if I have to pay more for it.

Matt, I look forward to hearing what you're told about the parts issue.

And CR -- thanks for answering my questions I don't doubt your info, either, I'd just like to hear the same info from 2 or more people.

 

My husband and I have had our cars insured through the insurance offered by Costco via American Express---they changed the name a couple of years ago to Ameriprise.

They have great rates and great service. We've never had a moment's trouble with them and I don't think they pull the same shenanigans that State Farm and Allstate do...

 

Depends in which State your policy is written. Check with your local agent to see if your State offers the OEM replacement endorsement.

If my State did offer it, I wouldn't buy the endorsement. Not worth the additional premium, IMO.

 

Fair enough.

Let me know if you get any info that conflicts with anything I've written in this thread.

 

Not all parts are even considered for the recycled-parts program. Shock absorbers would be a good example of that. It's impossible to tell the quality of a used shock without tearing it apart. So... not even a consideration.

You're welcome. And feel free to dig as deep and ask as many people as you want about State Farm's claim service. And ask other insurance companies, too ! The more you know, the better we look. We don't win awards for our Claim Service for nothing.

 

If you think Ameriprise is a good company, I'm glad for you. Stay with them.
But if you think they are practicing claim service without using non-OEM parts or recycled parts, I'd advise you to check into that. And make sure you ask the right people so you get the right answer, and not just one they think you want to hear.

And... "shenanigans"... I'd be pissed if I thought for a moment you knew of which you speak.

 

Since the bodyshop expressly told me State Farm wanted them to use suspensions removed from wrecked cars and the State Farm rep over the phone did not argue it and actually defended the whole pratice, I wonder if this doesn't very state to state or maybe there is a different impression of what is actually transpiring depending on where you are in the process - could be the one hand may not always know what the other one is up to...

 

Or... perhaps the recycled suspension you're referring to did not include the shock absorber.

Not sure I'm following the end of your post. Why would it matter "where you are in the process" ?

And I assure you, when it comes to claim handling, one hand always knows what the other hand is doing. Regardless of whether your car is repaired at shop on SF's Select Service list or if it's repaired at another shop, our claims department sees every item on the estimate and knows whether it is a non-OEM part, a recycled part, or if it came from Neptune. There are no secrets.

 

I'm curious, how can you say that no shops are opting to distance themselves from your program so certainly, do you ask the shops that leave? I only take issue with this because I personally know a top notch shop that did just that because of the changes to State Farm's repair practices and it is extremely likely they are not alone.

Are you aware also that State Farm has put a cap on hourly labor rates based on where the shop is too? The rep told me that if I chose a non Select shop they would only pay $78 an hour for a shop in San Francisco, so if that shop charged more then that it was my problem. Now I can assure you this never came up when I had a claim several years ago (and this came up each time when I called State Farm to ask questions, it was part of the pitch to apparently scare me from the idea of using a non Select shop), so clearly some changes have taken place.

Between squeezing them on labor and cheaping out on parts replacement by trying not to replace both in naturally paired items or using used parts or non OEM I'll bet there are other body shops that have chosen to come off the Select listing in spite of loss of business in order not to be held to those policies. I mean really, it is very clear to see that none of the good shops I've heard about and seen referred are on the Select list for my area, and they certainly are all not worse off in quality/techs/space, etc then those on there.

As for the whole non OEM part issue, yes I can understand the parts may be as good, but until you have faced a dealer service dept not wanting to deal with or even touch non stock parts to do warranty work you won't appreciate the impact it can have.

 

we're so worried about the sus arm that broke in the accident.

how do we know that the sus arm on the other side of the car was "okay?"
just by visual inspection?

then wouldn't it be the same as pulling a used part from a wrecked car
that visually appears ok on the other side?

kinda confused.

 

Just back from funeral and too tired to go through all the thread and reply to each thing, but even if the suspension was sans shocks (which the SF rep did not say was not done, he even argued why not) what part of the suspension is not wearing and can be damaged - the control arms get cracks, etc etc - really, as I said earlier the used wrecked car doner has no assurance of being in any good shape or not driven offroads or in the Dakkar Rally or higher miles then your, and so on. It is just a used part from a car-cass, no real testing or real warranty. Again, the insurance co has no stake in it, as the rep told me if there are problems you can deal with the body shop, same goes with any issues resulting from dealer service problems from non OEM or used parts. Doesn't seem right.

Anyway, I don't work for a body shop or the insurance co so I have no stake in it or anything. I was happy with State Farm before when they apparently let the body shop use new parts, OEM parts and replace in pairs without issue (and it seems like some other companies are still like this, prob with a higher premium but worth knowing about) - I am just letting people know that they should check up on this and check into the details of the repairs if they care like I do.

 

No... what you DID was come on a site with thousands of members and flame State Farm for something you have nearly no knowledge of.

You're taking your limited experience from one repair process and one shop and painting a broad picture of the world's largest insurance company that has handles millions of claims per year, using hundreds of thousands repair shops.

I'm not going to reply to every point you made in these last two posts because, A) I don't have time for it, and B) it's obvious you have a vendetta and I'm not going to get into a war of words with you. In fact, this is my last post in this thread as I've already explained the process sufficiently. People can decide for themselves if SF is practicing unusual and unfair claim handling.

Again, we had tens of thousands of not over a hundred thousand Service First shops in our program. We cut them down by 40%, or so earlier this year when we went to the Select Service program. You have one shop that decided to leave on their own. One. Not a thousand. Not a hundred. Not even ten. One. And you're going to make a broad statement based on that one shop ?

Of course State Farm reserves the right to limit the amount of money a shop can charge for labor in a given area ! What... if a shop decides to charge $300 an hour, we should pay that, too ? Where do we draw the line ? We draw it at the fair market labor rate for that area ! If a shop is higher than that, they need to change their practices to bring their rate down in line with the other shops in their area. Makes good business sense, don't you think ? Again, this is a SF practice that is saving our policyholders money be keeping premiums down. You think if we pay whatever shops want to charge that premiums won't be affected ?

I've addressed your other points already... go back to page one and do some reading. If you still feel the practice is unfair, feel free to shop your car insurance around. Just do the same thing you did here with State Farm... call the claims department and ask one of their claim reps if they use non-OEM parts or quality recycled parts.

Before I make my last comment on this thread, one last thing... If you think State Farm was practicing unfair claim handling, don't you think it would have been huge news before now ? Given the huge number of claims we handle on a daily basis, let alone an annual basis, there would have been a very large outcry, not to mention lawsuits, if we were doing anything unfair or grossly different than other insurance companies. We're not.

 

In my experience (not inconsiderable...15 years in the business), SF has a rep for having the most experienced adjusters, and a very fair set of claims guidelines.
I can't speak to what may or may not have changed recently re: the use of aftermarket/ used parts, but that has always been done, at least for the last 20 years or so.
If you think SF is doing something others aren't, check out Allstate or Progressive. I guarantee you will think better of SF after seeing what they do!
Here's a hint for those of you shopping for better claims service: if the company actively advertises low rates, guess what kind of service you're going to get! They have to cover those low rates somehow and cost-cutting on claims is the way they do it. Personally, I would rather pay more for coverage to know that I am going to get superior service.

 

CR&PW&JB, firstly, I have no vendetta at all - I am merely a long time customer who has found out that the company has changed the way they handle things with auto claims and using used parts for wearing items like suspension, etc (I've already stated my concerns and the issues) and am unhappy about it. Please maybe try to distance yourself from your position as an employee and see what I am saying clearly - I am reporting based on my experience and what I know from a trusted person just like what people post about on forums - personal experience, opinions and points of view. I did speak with a State Farm claim rep directly and the practice of using salvaged parts on wearing items was defended without addressing the potential problems/safety issues, as was the the potential problems of non OEM parts on the manufacturer's warranty/service, so nothing, direct from the horse's mouth, assuaged my concerns.

Since you mention it, why reduce the shops you deal with directly by 40%? I guess this explains the absence of the referred body shops on the Select list. You see this very fact, that State Farm at some point decided to dramatically limit the number of shops I can take my car to without a hassle (and/or changed things in such a way that shops opted out) is part of what I am talking about - changes in policies and practices that effect my auto repairs. Had I been clearly notified of this fact alone I might have checked this out and chose to move my coverage based on that, using quality recommended shops is important to me having had two different bad experiences in the past with repairs done by shops just on an insurer's list. Also, if I had even been told clearly by SF that non OEM parts and used parts could be put in my car sans my pre-approval I would have appreciated it, esp considering how when I signed on as a customer way back when the whole only OEM parts thing was a selling point specifically mentioned to me.

{And btw, I never said they should pay a shop any random unreasonable amount, what I did say is that prior to this I was never subject to being warned several times about having to pay the difference in labor from a non Select shop and pressured to use one. The fact is that the pre-set labor rates based on zip code apparently - Northern Marin county $80, San Francisco $78 which appears odd when you compare the real estate costs and such - is probably a factor in some shops opting out. It seems understandable if you consider that they may spend more of their own time trying to get some things done the way they think is best, suspension parts in pairs or OEM for example, not to mention having to support those things if there are problems later, that they may deem it a losing scenario. In any case I was never presented with this labor rate coverage issue before when I took a car to a non SF listed shop for an estimate or informed about that change in how SF would handle it.}

I do not think you are being objective or open to even acknowledging that there are real issues while you are defending your employer, so perhaps you should step away from the topic. I have a right to question the reduction in direct service body shops and the repair practices being pressured on the shops who work on my cars, and it does look like SF has changed their approach over the years I have carried their insurance. Do other companies do some of these same things? I'm sure they do, especially the ones who push for low rates, but I didn't sign on with State Farm as cheap insurance at all, I paid more for it when I became a client because of the top notch service practices I was told about that the shops echoed - now if the the people who wrench the cars tell me State Farm is acting differently and that there are other insurance companies that still let them do what they think is best carte blanche without used wearing parts and all I will look into that.

BTW, all of this begs the question, does State Farm automatically inform the customer that they are considering these parts for their cars in advance and give them a choice? Or clearly tell them afterwards they are in there (in which case its too late to redo the repair, no)? If not then people won't know and of course will be happy with the repair on the face of it - unless they later have problems that could be related with say, a used part, and the person knows to look into that connection. Perhaps I'll call and ask how that is done if someone does not tell the shop up front to notify them of what parts are being considered for a repair in advance.

PS: To your question "If you think State Farm was practicing unfair claim handling, don't you think it would have been huge news before now ?" - first, I never used the term "unfair", I said the practices changed and I question whether using pulled parts from salvaged cars is safe and if it, or the use of non OEM parts, can lead to other issues as well as the devaluation of the car. As for making news, the insurance companies are very powerful and it is very difficult for complaints or lawsuits to succeed against the industry. A quick search shows there have been lawsuits about things like this before (http://www.sfparts.com/complaint.html, http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/...cement_par.htm) and the practice is questioned, but with this as other issues that come up against insurance they have the deep pockets and are difficult to fight much less make huge news about when many people don't even question or care about these things.

Fwiw, searching reveals interesting things, this article doesn't give me much faith in SF's concern about people's vehicle safety :(
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...m_totaled.html

Phew! Sorry that got so long, bottom line, carpe diem guys - just get shops you can trust and look into the repair info beforehand if you care about what is being put into your cars. If you don't, nevermind

 

We've been with State Farm for over 20 years, same agent etc, and we've only had a couple of claims in all that time, but..........both were handled quickly and efficiently. We took our car to the Highest Quality high end body shop in town, and they handled everything with the adjuster - no muss no fuss. In our case, no used or aftermarket parts were used, but maybe that's because it was on a Lexus and there are no aftermarket parts for them? The headlight t/s unit, hood and bumper cover were all new Lexus parts bought from the dealer.

I did not need suspension or engine work done so I can't speak to that.

I think there are two keys here, the first is the agent, the second is the repair shop. They balked a little bit when I told them where I was going to take it, wanting me to take it to one of their preferred shops, but did not press the point when I refused. The body shop handled the rest.

I think our agent would have gone to bat for us if needed, but since there was no problem, he didn't need to intervene.

My father's Lexus was hit, and the Insurance (Liberty) company wanted him to take it to the Pontiac dealer(their preferred shop). I told him to take it to the shop I used and Liberty refused to use them. I called the district office and spoke to the supervisor - the car was fixed where we wanted and how we wanted with no further fuss. I understand cost control, but when not at fault, I expect my car to be done right........