The 24 hours at the Ring is over.

Race results are here.

Does anyone know why they are NO MINI entries in this race? I find it curious. There is one entry marked "Rover Mini Cooper" which I assume to mean an original mini. It DNF and qualified in 195th place (out of 220 qualfiers).

Just wondering because MINI is supposed to be a great road racing car and yet here was no team in the whole world who ran one at the Ring? Is that strange (or not)? I wanted to see a MINI ... any MINI doing well there.

 

Maybe because MINI drivers are too scared of looking at crazy Porsches and Vipers hurtling by with headlights on full beam! (okay, I just got up!)

But seriously, the race was INSANE! Did anyone catch the two Porsches running through the field of Golfs and other cars like a chase scene straight from the movies?

 

Because they are not really as fast as they feel ?

Because to make them fast enough, you end up making them extremely fragile ?

Because the owners have more sense

or some combination of the above.

Great road car, not a bad cone-racer, but on a real racetrack ????

 

Max ... that is my question. The Ring is the ultimate test for any car. There is a reason virtually every car maker tests their car's there.

Many ppl tout MINIs as great race cars so it would seem there is no better place to prove it than at the Ring ... in their class, of coure. It doesn't matter if they are two mins/lap behind the top cars ... wouldn't expect them to compete with the best ... but there was a Toyota Corolla there And Suzuki Swifts .... VWs and a whole bunch of Honda Civics ... yet no MINIs?????

I would like to see them do well in their class but alas, not even a single private party taker worldwide? What does that say about MINI prowess on the premier road racing course in the world?

Gforce, yeah I had the live feed on for a bit. Those GT3RSRs were very quick. And just image ... for about $200K or so you too can have one Its too bad I couldn't understand a single word of the German because those guys got excited some times and I had no clue as to what they were saying!

 

Oh! Weren't you watching the free worldwide English feed?

 

The 'class' is probably the issue - because of the forced induction, Mini's would find that they are up against much larger N/A engines - sure the 180hp (or whatever it is) sounds really good from 1.6ltrs, but a decent 2.2ltr will be nudging 200hp (2.2 being the rough equivallence) or more, not to mention that it will be considerably simpler. The cost of tuning is spectacular compared to a N/A assuming some semblence of reliability is desired.

People tend to say that the MINI has fantastic handling, but really, truely, I feel a little detached from the road, even on the track the feedback is not all it could be.

Of course I am comparing the MINI to one of the best handling cars I have ever owned - my MR2 - but really, the MINI does have a few bad habits.

1) Lag - not turbo/supercharger lag, but fly-by-wire lag. In the MCS at least there is a noticeable delay between the application of the throttle and the electronics figuring it out and/or allowing you to accelerate.

2) The 'Power Steering' - honestly this is a weak spot - it nulls the 'feel'.

I am ~4 seconds / lap faster arround Willow in my MR2 - the power/weight ratio is similar (2000lbs / 141rwhp vs 2600 / 182 whp), the MINI has a larger contact area than the MR2 and shorter ratios, combined with a way-fatter mid-range.

Yet I am way slower in the MCS

Simply the MINI's feedback is poor the limits, while high, the limits are not easy to find - and when you do find them they seem to change from lap-to-lap.


So I guess that rules out the MCS - which leaves the rather under-powered Cooper to race ?

115hp (or so) is hopeless from 1.6ltrs, combined with 2500lbs to push - it is outclassed by almost everything in its class.

Like I said - great (but flawed) road car, but compared to cars in its class, it is not a very good racer on anything bigger than a car-park race-track.....

 

MINI holds the MINI Challenge Nordschleife as a support race Saturday before the 24hr race - a much more attractive (read: affordable) option for anyone racing a MINI. BTW congrats to Michael Seifert who won a great race.

Here are a few photos from the event from this past Saturday:

 

what kind of lap times were the minis putting up compared to the cars racing at the 24 hours race.

 

^^ that silver one looks great (6th in line)

are they all running R90's?

 

The 24hr race (and the MINI Challenge event) takes place on the combined track - both the Nordschleife and the Grand Prix track. Because of that times won't really make sense with most of everything that is published. That said the fastest qualifiers were under the 10:30 mark.

BBS sponsors the MINI Challenge and they also happen to make the R90

And it's also worth noting that they are all '04 spec JCW 210hp cars with identical "Challenge Specs". You can read more here: MINI Challenge Technical Highlights (MotoringFile)

 

Wow Chows, all those unpedigreed and soulless cars must have made for a boring race. Give me the Phil Wicks series (1 Mini running unopposed for the championship, Baby!)

....but buck up there tiger! Mini has their own series - all Minis - all the time! No cheap Hondas, Evos, Dodges, Suzukis and Toyotas to clutter up the field and acting as moving cones.

Did I ever tell you about the time I beat an Audi RS4 at Buttonwillow in my old MCS? Massacreeeed him by Gum. Never mind that the driver was my friend's wife who was having her first track day - I cleaned her clock.

What I inferred from that experience is that the Mini is faster than every other car on the road. Minis are obviously not running in the 24 Hours at the Ring because everyone knows that all those M3s, Vettes, Vipers, Turbo 911s, etc. would be embarrassed.

Silly Chows, you already knew the answer to that question!

 

mini loses to a carrera on the rings.. thats with r56..
there is no wya that minis will keep up with vipers vettes and all them in LONGGGG straights in the ring.

plus, beating rs4, thats what u call beating the driver, not the car.

 

I'm too lazy to post the link but there is a list of all the ring times - the MCS is waaaaaaaaaaaaay down there.

But I also beat a 911 Turbo that day - his car went into limp mode for some unexplained reason.............or so he says. I think he was just afraid of my scary 03 MCS.

Only someone truly delusional would believe, driver skill being equal, that a Mini could hang with most of those cars. Yes, even an RS4.

People may find it hard to believe but most of those cars handle (sarcasm on) just about as well as a Mini (sarcasm off).

 

I didn't even know it existed. I found a German feed

That might be a reasonable explanation buy I'm not buying it in terms of racing ... real racing. Your saying, basically, it can't compete with the big boys?

The rules are here If I read it correctly, 1.6l puts it in SP2. Now there is penalty, if I am reading it right, of 1.7 (multiple the engine displacement) and that puts it in SP5 (up to 3l engines). Well, thats the price you pay in racing here for using forced induction. However ... that still does not preclude a team from competing and entering. Whether or not they are competive or not ... dunno.

I dont understand why its more "affordable". Are the MINI challenge rules that much different than the 24 hour racing rules? It cant be safety stuff ... maybe support? Regardless, that does not explain why no MINI by any individual in the world did not compete.

Now granted, 10:30 for the top qualifier would put the MINIs way back from the leader (almost 2 Minutes) ... but that should not matter ... Even in SP5, they are not going to compete with P-cars or Vipers. They are expected to compete with other cars in their class. Suzuki swifts qualified in 11:30 or more. The Corolla in 11:19 ... yet they ran.

So I still do not understand ... WHY NO MINIs? I don't get it.


Skip ... dude ... actually this time I don't.

The cars run in their own classes. Nobody expects any MINI to run with the big boys but it doesnt matter. If you can run a Toyota Corolla there and (and woe to the next person who calls a Toyota an "appliance" ... NOW lets see ... A Toyota runs the RING but no MINI???) Suzukis but no MINIs

I just don't get it. It cant be money ... ppl got money. Its cant be they are going to be embarrased, they will not expected to be near the top. So what is it?

BTW, the only published MINI Ring time is 8:55. Yes, its is virtually at the bottom of all published times (well it did beat a Ford Focus) but that still doesn't matter in terms of this race.

I dont care if it took two hours to get around the track ... its only competing against cars in its same class ...

So why no MINIs? It would seem to me that if you want to tout the MINI as a great track car ... then you compete at the premier track in the world ... the one track that virtually all car makers go to test their cars. The real test of the car's abilities ...

So ... I just dont get it .... If Suzuki Swifts and Toyota Corollas compete ... why no MINI? Is there some other reason I'm missing? Maybe Suzukis get more support from the racers in the world or does the MINI challenge series isolate the MINI from everyone else?

 

gabe- aha! i c.

 

However, not all the high finishers were Corvettes and Porsches. Would MINI be uncompetitive against these:

8th place, BMW 130i, 95 laps
9th place, VW Golf 5, 94 laps
10th place, Opel Astra GTC, 94 laps
11th place, Hyundai Coupe V6, 92 laps
14th place, Honda S2000, 91 laps
16th place, Audi A4, 91 laps
22nd place, Opel Astra GTC, 90 laps

There were plenty of Porsche GT3's that finished lower than that Hyundai....

 

Exactly

The Corolla placed 122 while a 996 GT3 Cup Car placed 130th

Take that Ken ... Corollas RULE

It cant be because they might "embarass" themselves trying to play with the Big Boys because they would be in their own class. I just wonder what is really going on here but I suspect nobody here has that answer?

 

Perhaps the check engine light came on in all of the MINIs that were going to compete and BMW couldn't get out a software patch in time.

 

Too funny

Or maybe the cars go into limp mode or get cold start stumble No stop it! I'm trying to be serious here

 

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