Navteq does the maps for google, how come using google gives me better/quicker directions then my Nav system.

Howard

 

It is largely because the disk you have is not current and the fact that the Google maps software is different then the BMW/Mini software and how it works. Google uses the data from Navteq but how it works is their own interface.

 

"[font=Arial][size=2] Howard,

We were able to repeat the problem using the MINI 2005.2 DVD map. There is
nothing in the NAVTEQ database that is causing the MINI nav to often ignore
the right turn from southbound Machen Rd to westbound Climbing Rose Way. We
suspect that when passing Rosy Ln, the nav-system chooses to make a u-turn
at Centrewood Dr rather than re-calculate the route to turn westbound on
Climbing Rose Way because the distance on Machen Rd (between Rosy Ln and
Climbing Rose Way) is relatively short (328 feet centerline to centerline).
Your address is located in what NAVTEQ has as a private / restricted access
neighborhood. This may also be influencing the short re-route performance.
We will ask SiemensVDO (the nav-system manufacturer) to confirm.

If you try to calculate a route to your house using 'SHORTEST DISTANCE'
route criteria when stopped on Machen Rd between Rosy Ln and Climbing Rose
Way, the nav system should instruct a right turn on Climbing Rose Way rather
than making a u-turn further south."[/size][/font]

 

I'd rather have the time on the nav screen (or have the choice to display time/date or temp). On the 2005 models we've lost the overhead clock display, and the clock is now a shared function with the trip odometer. Since we have nav as well, the overall speedo is shrunk to fit on the steering column next to the tach. So the trip odometer LCD is TINY. Furthermore passengers are no longer able to see the clock display (which used to be in the center overhead console, or should be in the center nav screen).

You can always have the temp display showing in your OBC in the tach. As a matter of fact if the temp drops to 37 degrees, the OBC will not only flash the current temp in the display, but also chime!

The way I see it is if we have 3 areas (Tach LCD, Speedo LCD, and Nav screen) to display info, we should have the flexibility to display different info in each of those areas.

Another grip: with the Nav option, why do we NOT have the digital speedo in the OBC (like all other non-nav models do since '04)???

I would also like to reiterate the displeasure of receiving an outdated nav DVD especially when I took delivery of my MINI after new discs were available, for months! (Regardless of whether MINIUSA is trying to 'exhaust' its current 'stock' of outdated nav DVDs, 'for-profit' businesses such as Walmart or Best Buy frequently return unsold excess DVDs to studios to make room for new titles. MINIUSA should do the same with its outdated nav DVDs, especially when such DVDs are more mission-critical than say Shrek 2! AND why would MINI ever have 'excess stock' of DVD discs anyway? EVERYTHING with MINI manufacturing is just-in-time! Nav is a factory option, just like the surface of the seats on which we sit......... Do we hear of seats piling up at the plant???!)

 

The Nav DVD is not installed at the factory. This is primarily because it is region-specific. The DVD comes to the dealer, and THEY install it. The "just-in-time at the factory" rule does not apply, and it's MINIUSA that is shipping the Nav DVDs to the dealers, so they are the ones who are to blame.

I agree with your other sentiments though.

 

Well, for once, I have good news to report about my Mini nav system. Today, I went up to Baron Mini here in Kansas City to complain about the fact that my '05 MCS came with an out-dated map disc. I was expecting to get a lot of resistance regarding getting a new disc for free. I couldn't have been more wrong. Jackie (sales) and Joe Lasker (Mini GM) couldn't have been more willing to make me happy. Without hesitation, Joe told me they would order me a 2005.2 map disc at no charge, and that it should be at the dealership in a week. What a relief! That's what customer service should be. No hassles. No arguments. Just a simple, "Yes sir, you're right. Your '05 MCS nav should have an '05 map disc, and we'll be happy to take care of that for you at no extra charge." Now if I could just get them to feel the same way about the JC Works package.....

 

You will find that the rated road speed that you are traversing will influence the available options for corrective action if you bypass the indicated direction. The NAV system will not attempt to reroute you in the circumstances noted above as it finds the next right turn to be too close to safely stop and turn by the time it's voice command can advise you to do so. You can reproduce this behaior at any similar muti-turn area of of a higway with a 30+ MPH speed. It;'s just too short a distance for the software to tell you to turn and for you to react to the turn safely.

MINI Steve

PS: The Navteq 2005 disc for MINI was released in March of this year(2005), so it would have been impossible to deliver cars with this disc prior to this date. Nice word on what one dealer did when presented with the request for an updated disc as noted elsewhere...

 

Steve,

I think everyone's aware that if the disc doesn't exist, then we can't get it with the car. However, the fact they are STILL giving out 2003 map discs now is inexcusable. In addition, MINIUSA and every dealer should have made the effort to ship out or at least "notify and offer free" map disc upgrades to every 2005 MINI owner with Nav. 2004 owners are a little more murky, but the fact a 2004 map disc wasn't offered for MINI (even though BMW had them and they work with the MINI) should also help to encourage them to upgrade 2004 cars too. It's called "respecting your customer".

 

The only decent thing to do would be for Mini to give customers discs that were current to the car year; having people pay $1800 for outdated and innacurrate information is outrageous. When I ordered my car I had the reasonable expectation that the car would come with current info, or at least I'd get a free update as I did with the CD system. Its really not right to leave it so that the few who can wrangle the upgrade from the dealer are the only ones to get what is right, while everyone else is left with 2 year old data or has to pay $200 for information that is as new as the car.

 

I'll take a different view and say that the 'they' you refer to is actually the local dealer network. The vehicle does not come delivered with a DVD. If the local dealer continues to provide poor customer service and not provide the current product, shame on them...

I knew when I purchased my 2004 model in Nov 2003 that the disc supplied was the most current at the time of delivery. If a subsequent disc is released six months [or six weeks] later (it wasn't, but just for argument's sake) I have no *expectation* that this would be provided free or that I would receive some notice. That's a NAVTEQ deal, not a MINI one. Now... if you have a quality -dealer- and they think that it is good business to provide you with a $200 freebie some months after delivery, I'd say kudos to them... but I suggest they have no obligation; moral, ethical or legal to provide you with free upgrades released after you take delivery. I concur that delivery of a new vehicle after the release of the new map disks should include the current MINI Navteq DVD.

I had every expectation of spending $200/year to keep my NAV system current with replacement DVD map disks. I never expected my dealer to buy these for me and hold no animosity.

My $.02
Your mileage may vary.
Not leagal in all states
Plus tax, tags, title, delivery charges and management fees

MINISteve

 

Allow me to respectfully disagree with your 'current to the car year' statement. As noted, Navteq (not MINI) released their 2005-branded disk more than 6 months after the '05 -branded MINIs began being delivered. Delaers delivering '05 MINIs in Q4 2004 and Q1 2005 should not be dinged for delivering Nav-equiped vehicles with the then-current disk from the map technology provider. If Navteq released a disk in Q2 2005 and designated it '2004-3' or some such (because the data on the disk certainly isn't 2005 current!!), should the MINI dealer network be obliged to back-fill every MINI Nav-delivered system since Q32003 with this disk at no charge... I think not.
If your -dealer- thinks it's good business to buy and provide a free update to you, good on them. I agree that responsible -dealers- would provide the current DVD disk from Navteq, which would mean those who buy new systems from April of this year and beyond have a right to expect a 2005-edition disk from Navteq in their Nav system. Local dealers failing to do so or rectify deliveries within a reasonable period that included an older-edition DVD are shameful.

My $.02 again (please see prior post for other opinions)

MINISteve

 

So your separating the issue into "current at time of delivery" vs "not current at time of delivery". Fine, point taken... although I still think it's not right (whether the fault be NavTeq, MINIUSA, or the local dealer) that ANYONE with a 2005 car still drives around with a 2003 map disc today.

I'm still not convinced though that today's deliveries with 2003 map discs are the dealer's fault. If I'm not mistaken, MINIUSA ships the map discs to the dealers as they order and receive MINIs with Nav. That places the blame squarely on MINIUSA, not the dealers. This has been confirmed to some degree by people who have called and spoken with MINIUSA on the phone.

Just for clarification though, your quote of:

Well, neither did I nor anyone else I think. You're missing the point when you say that... I don't think ANY of us talking about this expect a free update every year, we just want to have the current disc with a new car. That's all. To start off on the right foot, even if the disc came out late. We'll buy future discs! At least I will.

 

Resonable and generally agreed, Edge.

As to this item:
...not really certain. I know my local dealers (North Carolina) have had 2005 discs in thier showroom cars since May, so it's difficult to identify where the challenge is if others are not providing '05 discs with today's deliveries.
I'll certainly be holding my dealer accountable for providing me with a current map disc when I take delivery on the new MCSConvetible next month!!

MINISteve
PS: I've just posted my current '04 'fully dressed' MCS for sale ...and I'll be providing the current 2005 disc from Navteq with the purchase

 

I'll tell ya, IMHO there is no excuse for selling a car in 2005 with an $1800 nav system that has 2 year old information. It's pretty simple.

Aside from that, BMW/Mini already established the expectation that they do upgrades when they did that with the CD nav systems (which again came with a free new set of map discs when during the first few years of ownership) and the Mini SAs, along with ASK MINI on the phone, even told us when we were looking into buying that BMW/Mini would do that with the DVD. Of course, they turned out to be wrong leaving us with no recourse. When I asked about it later via the dealership and MINIUSA they were both in the 'sorry for the wrong info but we are helpless' mode.

As for who is responsible for what, well the top of the food chain here is BMW/Mini, they sell an awful lot of cars with the Nateq info and certainly hold a lot of sway with them. It is also my opinion that since this matter has been handled by HQ before when it comes to free upgrades (as I recall my CD discs came directly from them in the mail, not via the dealer) it makes sense for them to do that again with the DVDs as it assures equal distribution to all of the owners vs leaving it up to spotty dealer coverage on a per incident basis, esp if it comes out of the dealer's pocket. After all, it the parent company that really made the profit on the nav cost vs sales price.

Anyway, I hope I explained my POV alright - I don't really have time to hone it at the moment but I think you can see why I hold the opinion that I do. Oh, and even if I hadn't had the previous experience with BMW/Mini issuing the free CD nav upgrades I know that many other car companies do the logical thing by making sure the car is current and/or upgrade you, why should we expect any less?

 

Hey then! We're agreed!

I absolutely require that my dealer provide my new MCSC with the current 2005 Navteq disc when I take delivery next month.

The '05 disc I bought from Navteq for my '04MCS will go to it's happy new owner.

Regards 2 all,
MINISteve

 

Well, given the context of my remarks and your earlier comments I don't really think so...

 

For clarity:
I was agreeing with your comment that restated my comment
that cars sold since the '05 Navteq disc was available should be delivered with the '05 Navteq disc. We both agreed that it was not possible to deliver '05 cars with anything except the '03 disk before that time... as you kindly pointed out to me
... that was all.

cya
MINISteve

 

Well, to be accurate MINI Steve, I did not make that statement, Edge did:

Anyway, my point, just to be clear, is not whether the discs where avail at the time of sale in 2005, but that if they were not BMW/Mini should do what they have done before, what other cars co's do - and what everyone from dealers to Mini Customer Service thought they would do - and that is send the correct disc out as a free upgrade. The customer should not be penalized for the mistakes of the companies involved and their tardiness with the correct info just because they took delivery a month or two earlier then when the disc was made ready.

 

Kay-O... pardon the misquoted attribution. I should check my references better!

On this matter I guess we'll just have differing opinions on the timing and responsibility of delivering updated map discs.
From my viewpoint, if it's a few weeks after you take delivery that a new disc is released... I agree with you completely. If it's a few months, I probably don't.
And if Navteq had decided not to release their 2005 disc until November of 2005, when the 2006 model year is in delivery, I don't see where there's an obligation for MINI (any part of it) to send out updates to all registered owners for the 2005 model year. A line needs to be reasonably drawn somewhere... I think we are in different places where that line should be.

MINISteve
PS; Though I built my house 7 years ago and the street I live on has existed for 10 years, it's still not on the Navteq discs <sigh>. Fortunately, my MINI remembers where I live regardless, though it is "... four hundred feet outside the digitized map area" in a pleasant British femine voice. [hooray for 'memorize current vehicle position!]

 

Alrighty, I guess so. I'm glad Microsoft and most other software companies don't have your philosophy since I've received free upgrades months and months later. I think my complete MS Office upgrade was sent to me over 6 months after I purchased the older version with the new version pending.

The bottom line to me is that with the nav its not just that a new version was released, but that the version in the car is ridiculously outdated and Mini themselves gave wrong info about it. That combined with the precident they set with the CD free nav upgrades up to years later, well , 'nuff said

 

I understand your viewpoint; just disagree with the apparent expectation that the manufacturer of your car has an obligation to provide this, simply because the manufacturer of the data disc brought out a revised version six months after taking delivery. If someone actually promised it to you, as opposed to saying, 'I expect that MINI will send out an update whenever it comes available' or something similar, then I completely agree you have every right to expect the person/party that committed this to follow though. If it was your dealer, they are the ones to address it, if it was MINI that promised a disc update, I'd hold 'em to it the same way you held Microsoft to the commitment of a free upgrade.

Not sure about others, but if my dealer tells me that something is due to me at the time I take delivery, I make sure to have it noted on the delivery order.



No worries that way.



...and even with the latest disc, it's years out-of-date on many aspects. According to Navteq, they start the compilation process of a new disc 12-18 months before it is published. I think I need to move somewhere that they are done building roads so I don’t care if they update or not.



MINISteve

 

I love what Sam said earlier and its exactly what were are saying now. Let me requote him.
"The Miniusa policy arrogantly defies logic and is insulting to any new purchasers of Minis with navigation systems. It is analogous to purchasing the latest Pentium IV with Windows ME"


I'm not going to go out to the store pay 2k for a brand new P4 3.2 gig PC to find out its running Windows 98 or ME. Same I'm buying a 1800 dollar nav system I expect it to have the latest information with it. This isn't a 50 dollar thing we are talking about. And maybe even for 50 bucks I'd consider "buying" an upgraded DVD, but it cost almost 300 dollars, hence making your original Nav system purchase over 2100 dollars.

Howard

 

Congratulations...apparently, you have money to throw away.

 

Not at all, I just understood what I was buying and what it would cost to maintain it... same as any other item on my car.

By your comment above, do you indicate an expectation that someone will pay for your map discs as they are released over the years? Did your dealer commit to this? If they did, I'd hold them firmly to it and be happy ... if not, what's all the griping about???

Once again, my stated opinion was that anyone purchasing a MINI Nav system has every right to expect the -then currently available- map disc to be provided. If they are given a 2003 disc in November of 2004 with a new 2005 model (or a new 2004 model for that matter, if one was still on the lot) it is because that's the current disc. If they are given a 2003 disc in June of 2005, that's wrong and should be rectified by their dealer. If a new one is released during the following year (it almost certainly will be since Navteq releases new Discs every 12-18 months...) you should be prepared to pay for it if you want it($199... not 'almost $300' as stated elsewhere).

MINISteve

 

Just get a Garmin. Then you can take it in any car not to mention their the best.