Navigation & Audio Sound system upgrade 101
@ redlinedave:
Sorry if sounded like a complete dolt earlier. I made my post in a fatigued stupor.
I read the Stickied thread about upgrading your sound system. What I was trying to ask are what sizes are the factory speakers? From reading that thread, I believe the fronts are 5.25" and the rears are 6"x9", correct?
Also, I read to fit the 6.5" in the front, some "modifications" had to be done to fit in the door. Has this been anyone's experience, or does it just depend upon the speaker?
Sorry if sounded like a complete dolt earlier. I made my post in a fatigued stupor.
I read the Stickied thread about upgrading your sound system. What I was trying to ask are what sizes are the factory speakers? From reading that thread, I believe the fronts are 5.25" and the rears are 6"x9", correct?
Also, I read to fit the 6.5" in the front, some "modifications" had to be done to fit in the door. Has this been anyone's experience, or does it just depend upon the speaker?
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,100
Likes: 229
From: York, Pennsylvania
I have the Polk db6501 6.5" components in the front door.
Just put them in last month along with some Dynamat.
The adapter ring that comes with the speakers is thick enough to
fit them and has holes in the right places for the stock location.
The tweeters required a little creative bending of the mounting bracket,
and I drilled one hole for the crossover.
Got them from Crutchfield. They sent some additional Scion adapters that
I didn't use as they didn't look like they'd do as good a job as the ones
that came with the speakers.
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...7DB6501&tp=106
Just put them in last month along with some Dynamat.
The adapter ring that comes with the speakers is thick enough to
fit them and has holes in the right places for the stock location.
The tweeters required a little creative bending of the mounting bracket,
and I drilled one hole for the crossover.
Got them from Crutchfield. They sent some additional Scion adapters that
I didn't use as they didn't look like they'd do as good a job as the ones
that came with the speakers.
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...7DB6501&tp=106
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
From: Westminster, CO
I am looking at a speaker upgrade, and was considering those as well as others. One of the things I'm concerned about is keeping the door panel grills stock, which it sounds like you did. Are you powering these with the stock amp? How does it sound? Did you loose any volume? It's a big issue for me being in a cabrio. I was pretty much talked into the fact that I will need to add an amp, but I would love to be talked out of it.
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,100
Likes: 229
From: York, Pennsylvania
I have just the stock cassette head unit powering them. The door panel
grills are stock except for some dynamat I added to the inside of them,
which isn't visible on the outside, and quite optional.
The Polk db6501 speakers have an efficiency of 92db, which is a little bit
louder than the stock speakers. They do sound better than the stock
speakers, a little more bass and crisper and better defined, less of a hole
in the repsonse at 1Khz compared to stock, and smoother highs.
grills are stock except for some dynamat I added to the inside of them,
which isn't visible on the outside, and quite optional.
The Polk db6501 speakers have an efficiency of 92db, which is a little bit
louder than the stock speakers. They do sound better than the stock
speakers, a little more bass and crisper and better defined, less of a hole
in the repsonse at 1Khz compared to stock, and smoother highs.
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
From: Westminster, CO
I understand that efficiency ratings aren't necessarily comparable because the tests are not conducted in the same manner. Do these speakers actually sound louder than the stock speakers you replaced? (sounds to good to be true). Did you replace the rears too?
Polk 6500's which have been replaced by:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...7DB6501&tp=105
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...7DB6501&tp=105
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,100
Likes: 229
From: York, Pennsylvania
at front= back now, whereas I had it at 2 clicks toward the front with
the oem ones for the same general balance between front and rear.
Efficiency ratings are comparable if they use the same standard of
db/W at 1 meter for both products, or if you convert them to the same.
The stock fronts are 89db/W (2v at 4 ohm = 1 watt, one usually uses
2.83V for 8 ohm and 1.41V for 2 ohm speakers) as per this old post by tacotim:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=13071
Originally Posted by tacotim
The front door speaker on the base system is a 5.25" The HK system uses a 6".The grille opening, trim, and mounting depth easily accomodate most 6.5". Whatever speaker you install, in front, needs a bracket/spacer. This is simple to construct. I have made CAD drawings of the stock speaker, which gives me the info, I'd need to make a bracket to fit an aftermarket speaker. Let me know if you need help with the bracket.
The stock front speaker is pretty efficient (89.7 dB @ 1 meter with 2V input), and has reasonable low end extension (75 Hz resonance, Qt 0.68). It has good high end extension to 10 kHz. It's response is generally downward tilting (more lows than highs), and low excursion (2 mm). The latter are its relative weak points. I have a lot of data on the stok driver, if you're interested. (If you can make sense of it, it may help in finding a suitable upgrade)
I would prioritize finding a driver with equal or better efficiency, equal or lower resonance, and greater excursion (xmax). If you plan to keep the stock tweeter, you'll likely need a different crossover to work with most aftermarket drivers-they typically don't extend to the 9kHz crossover of the stock system.
I had been helping another MINI owner plan an upgrade, and found the Focal 165V2 kit to be my top choice for the front doors, if you don't plan to change the grilles, or cut the door trim. If you do have that in mind, then I think the Focal 7V4212 DB is by far the best woofer for the front door. I haven't found a tweeter efficient enough to work with it, but I do have a custom crossover in mind to "step up" the stock tweeter to work with it.
"The stock 6x9 is a good driver. Efficiency 92 dB, resonance 74 Hz, Qt 0.83, excursion 3 mm, response to 6 kHz. I'd say that the limited high frequency extension is this driver's primary weakness. Any aftermarket driver with a good tweeter and crossover should yield a noticeable improvement. Finding something as efficient as the stock part may be difficult. If you find something only 89 dB (typical), the 3 less dB of efficiency is like driving the speaker with half the power. Keep this in mind while shopping.
The stock front speaker is pretty efficient (89.7 dB @ 1 meter with 2V input), and has reasonable low end extension (75 Hz resonance, Qt 0.68). It has good high end extension to 10 kHz. It's response is generally downward tilting (more lows than highs), and low excursion (2 mm). The latter are its relative weak points. I have a lot of data on the stok driver, if you're interested. (If you can make sense of it, it may help in finding a suitable upgrade)
I would prioritize finding a driver with equal or better efficiency, equal or lower resonance, and greater excursion (xmax). If you plan to keep the stock tweeter, you'll likely need a different crossover to work with most aftermarket drivers-they typically don't extend to the 9kHz crossover of the stock system.
I had been helping another MINI owner plan an upgrade, and found the Focal 165V2 kit to be my top choice for the front doors, if you don't plan to change the grilles, or cut the door trim. If you do have that in mind, then I think the Focal 7V4212 DB is by far the best woofer for the front door. I haven't found a tweeter efficient enough to work with it, but I do have a custom crossover in mind to "step up" the stock tweeter to work with it.
"The stock 6x9 is a good driver. Efficiency 92 dB, resonance 74 Hz, Qt 0.83, excursion 3 mm, response to 6 kHz. I'd say that the limited high frequency extension is this driver's primary weakness. Any aftermarket driver with a good tweeter and crossover should yield a noticeable improvement. Finding something as efficient as the stock part may be difficult. If you find something only 89 dB (typical), the 3 less dB of efficiency is like driving the speaker with half the power. Keep this in mind while shopping.
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
Front Low and Midrange S60
I've been looking over this thread and has some great info, exactly for my situation. One of my speakers is rattling a bit, I'm assuming its blown. It was mentioned that the tweeters from the s60s snap right into the factory mounts, one question though, what about the larger 6.5 inch speaker? I haven't taken apart the door yet to look behind the grill, but crutchfield says that there isn't an exact size match for those. Can I still tuck the S60s behind the stock speaker grill? My mini is an '01 I always prefer that the stereo not look upgraded. I like my '03 stock head unit which I added the AUX input to. People break into cars a lot less that have stock electronics.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
I am going through the same thing you are recordsmith.
Right off the bat, you can go to crutchfield.com and enter your car info. The website will show you a list of things that will work with your car. Then all you gotta do is enter your model number into the search field. The website will most likely find your speakers. When the page loads, it will tell you whether or not the speakers will fit in the car.
Worst case scenario, find some speakers you want (that will fit your car) on crutchfield.com then search for those speakers on google shopping to save alot of money.
If you want to get higher end speakers it's completely worth it to get them from somewhere else.
Right off the bat, you can go to crutchfield.com and enter your car info. The website will show you a list of things that will work with your car. Then all you gotta do is enter your model number into the search field. The website will most likely find your speakers. When the page loads, it will tell you whether or not the speakers will fit in the car.
Worst case scenario, find some speakers you want (that will fit your car) on crutchfield.com then search for those speakers on google shopping to save alot of money.
If you want to get higher end speakers it's completely worth it to get them from somewhere else.
Thanks for all the help guys. I went to crutchfield like Seancusmc suggested and it says that there is an amount of customizing to get the tweeters to work, o it looks like I have to think of another option. At this point I want plug and play, not cutting, bending...etc. It is not a big thing. I will just keep my eyes open. Any suggestions for some nice speakers? I live in MD and went to school with people that work with Polk so i have a loyalty thing going with them, but for the sake of plug and play I will limit the polk to the home theather. I have a set JBL bookshelf speakers, how do those stack up in the car realm?
Thanks again guys!
Thanks again guys!
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
I read a post yesterday from someone who said the he had installed a component system with no issues. I remember him saying the tweeters fit perfectly. Ill see if I can find them.
Remember you can always just cut the wires to the existing tweeters and install speakers that have them built in. You'll sacrifice some benefit but the overall cost will be less and this type of solution by no means is a bad one so don't get too wrapped around the axle with the tweeter just yet.
Remember you can always just cut the wires to the existing tweeters and install speakers that have them built in. You'll sacrifice some benefit but the overall cost will be less and this type of solution by no means is a bad one so don't get too wrapped around the axle with the tweeter just yet.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=123327
This guy Used Boston Acoustic and says the tweeters snapped right into place. I can vouch for Boston Acoustic speakers. I had a set in my first car and they sounded great.
Read the thread. You may find it pretty helpful.
This guy Used Boston Acoustic and says the tweeters snapped right into place. I can vouch for Boston Acoustic speakers. I had a set in my first car and they sounded great.
Read the thread. You may find it pretty helpful.
Doug and the rest,
thanks so much for this thread.
I need my back seat and cargo area and couldn't go sub woofer.
So i was about to post questions on speaker upgrades when i found this thread.
I love Bostons (even use them in my home theatre 0 so the db info and model info is perfect, a nice upgrade.
thanks again
Boxcars
thanks so much for this thread.
I need my back seat and cargo area and couldn't go sub woofer.
So i was about to post questions on speaker upgrades when i found this thread.
I love Bostons (even use them in my home theatre 0 so the db info and model info is perfect, a nice upgrade.
thanks again
Boxcars
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Western MA
Would the Boston Acoustic S50's be a better choice? They are 5.25" which would fit perfectly, correct? I need to change my speakers out as well, one of the fronts is blown. And I too, dont want to change the head unit or speaker grills from stock.
doug 4442
or anyone having done the rear speaker change,
haven't got my manual yet, how do you change out the rears, how does the grill come off, do you have to remove the side panel?
any help appreciated
boxcars
or anyone having done the rear speaker change,
haven't got my manual yet, how do you change out the rears, how does the grill come off, do you have to remove the side panel?
any help appreciated
boxcars
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Western MA
I know I read on here that you have to remove the seats and the side panels, do a search there are a few post on here with instructions and pictures.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Actually I just replaced the rear speakers a few days ago.
I have a 2005 MCS w/Harmon kardon - went pretty smooth and with 2 people took only an hour to have it completely apart and the old speakers out - not bad for a couple of amatuers, I think.
You'll need a small socket set or a couple of pliers. A crosspoint screw driver. flat head screw driver, Wire cutters and strippers, a container to hold screws and clips you take off.
You'll need the flat head screwdriver to pry off some of the plastic clips that hold the side panels onto the metal. just stick them back on the panels when you're ready to pop them back in.
The old speakers have clips that connect them so you'l lhave to cut them off and strip the wires, I considered using my teeth to do this to save a trip to the basement, but past experience directed my judgement.
As far as wiring your speakers.... I just guessed. There are four wires going to the speakers at 2 seperate contact sets. I picked a pair and terminated the other pair. Sounds good, but it may not be correct.
Word to the Wise. Crutchfield.com told me a Dirty lie - that my JL AUdio speakers http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...VR690CX&tp=105 wouldnt fit in the Gigantic speaker well there so I wasted money on Infinity Kappas. I imagine just about any 6x9 speakers will fit. What reason for this deception might they have?
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=84200
You can thank DarminicooperS for that.
I'll let you know how the Front door installation goes once I figure out how to get the damned door panel off. There is that one screw hiding behind teh pull bar pad that I can't get to. Anyone know how?
I have a 2005 MCS w/Harmon kardon - went pretty smooth and with 2 people took only an hour to have it completely apart and the old speakers out - not bad for a couple of amatuers, I think.
You'll need a small socket set or a couple of pliers. A crosspoint screw driver. flat head screw driver, Wire cutters and strippers, a container to hold screws and clips you take off.
You'll need the flat head screwdriver to pry off some of the plastic clips that hold the side panels onto the metal. just stick them back on the panels when you're ready to pop them back in.
The old speakers have clips that connect them so you'l lhave to cut them off and strip the wires, I considered using my teeth to do this to save a trip to the basement, but past experience directed my judgement.
As far as wiring your speakers.... I just guessed. There are four wires going to the speakers at 2 seperate contact sets. I picked a pair and terminated the other pair. Sounds good, but it may not be correct.
Word to the Wise. Crutchfield.com told me a Dirty lie - that my JL AUdio speakers http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...VR690CX&tp=105 wouldnt fit in the Gigantic speaker well there so I wasted money on Infinity Kappas. I imagine just about any 6x9 speakers will fit. What reason for this deception might they have?
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=84200
You can thank DarminicooperS for that.
I'll let you know how the Front door installation goes once I figure out how to get the damned door panel off. There is that one screw hiding behind teh pull bar pad that I can't get to. Anyone know how?
http://www.gbmini.net/G2/main.php?g2_itemId=4412
After you take the armrest off you will see the hole where the screw is located.
There is a tab under the armrest you have to push down with the stick.
It may take several inserts with the stick to find it. You will know when you do by how it feels. Just keep trying.
You will feel it become loose although you have to still slide it off.
It may take several inserts with the stick to find it. You will know when you do by how it feels. Just keep trying.
You will feel it become loose although you have to still slide it off.
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis, Missouri
Didn't want to start a new thread, but hadn't been able to find an answer to my curiosity... When replacing the front speakers, if I wanted to use the speaker grills which would accompany whatever speakers I may buy, is there any reason why I couldn't? Other than stealth, is there any reason why I shouldn't? And finally if I went this route, do you think the door panel, could support the weight of an aftermarket 6.5" speaker?
It just seems that even if I had to build a small wood frame or something to support it, mounting outside the panel would allow a bit more clearance. It would also be somewhat preferable (in my mind) to have a different grill as mine are a bit tore up after 6 years.
It just seems that even if I had to build a small wood frame or something to support it, mounting outside the panel would allow a bit more clearance. It would also be somewhat preferable (in my mind) to have a different grill as mine are a bit tore up after 6 years.