hey,

im ready to put a system into my MINI and need some input from you awesome MCO members....

i do not have a lot of money to spend, so keep that in mind

i am lookin for some kind of way to play tons of WMA files either by iPod, Changer, any new ****... etc, anyway to get readout from an iPod??

also, i want to replace my speakers wit some nice ones.....

im not sure about Amps/Subs, subs r mostly for rap, right??

new HU if neccesary!

anyone got a good setup combo, please help me out!!

 

>>i do not have a lot of money to spend, so keep that in mind
What is your budget?

I am laying out around $2500 at the moment; and you can spend MUCH more than that!

>>i am lookin for some kind of way to play tons of WMA files
Check the Kenwood Keg thread - maybe too expensive?
Also you could get an MP3 CDR compatible changer (eg: Alpine) and put that in the trunk; or you could replace the HU with one that plays CDRs loaded with MP3s.

>>anyway to get readout from an iPod??
Don't know of iPod display currently, but people have suggested something is coming. Can't you just mount it so you can see it?


>>also, i want to replace my speakers wit some nice ones.....
Read lots of threads - opinions vary as to whether this is a waste of time unless you do an amp too (or at least a new HU).

>>im not sure about Amps/Subs, subs r mostly for rap, right??
As I say, some say aftermarket speakers need an amp to drive them - not as efficient as stock speakers.
Subs handle the very low "stomach vibrating" bass and take some work off the main speakers so they should be cleaner.
I will find out soon if no subs is good ...

>>new HU if neccesary!
New HU can give you features (like MP3 CDRs) but might mean effort to keep your steering wheel controls; might not look so good in the car; etc.

>>anyone got a good setup combo, please help me out!!
What is good for me or someone else might not be good for you.

 

>>>>anyway to get readout from an iPod??
>>Don't know of iPod display currently, but people have suggested something is coming. Can't you just mount it so you can see it?
>>
>>
>>>>also, i want to replace my speakers wit some nice ones.....
>>Read lots of threads - opinions vary as to whether this is a waste of time unless you do an amp too (or at least a new HU).

why would a new HU be needed for new speakers??

also, does anyone have info on the iPod screen??

 

The stock headunit only sends out 15 watts per channel, and that's peak, not RMS. So really it's putting out closer to 10 watts per channel I'd say. This is fine for the craptastic stock speakers, but it useless on any decent speaker. A decent speaker, as it's not some 0.001 oz paper cone, needs more "juice" to drive it. Think of it this way, a small car can go 30 miles on a gallon of gas. A big truck can go 5 miles on a gallon. Takes more to run the big rig. Same holds true here. Also, the more power you place to a speaker, theoretically the cleaner it can sound as it's not having any power related sound reproduction issues. There is also the matter of impedance when selecting speakers. If you don't know much about that, I'm not going there. Starts to get into Ohms law, which is way beyond my knowledge basis.

But yes, you need amps for clean, good sound from aftermarket speakers. Headunits just can't do EVERYTHING. They're already taxed reproducing sound, and by placing amplification needs on top of that, they not only get pricey, but don't work that well. Amplification should always be left to a standalone provider.

As for subs, it depends on your ear, not your musical tastes. I have very good hearing (I can hear dog whistles actually ) and so it's very important to me to be hearing a full spectrum of sound. Your typical 6x9 can only reproduce down to a certain point, typically around 30hz or more. So what happens to the sub frequencies of 5-30hz? Nothing. You don't hear them. Ever turned off the sub in your home theatre? Yah, it's not just for "rap". I enjoy electronic music and sub frequencies often carry the bassline. Also sub help lighten the load off the other speakers as you can tune the other speakers to, for example, 40hz+ and your sub to 40hz-. Some of the biggest sub lovers out there are classical music freaks if that tells you anything.

As for speaker selection, dang, that's something you've got to check out for yourself. To my ears such laureled favorites as Focal and JL Audio don't measure up. Focal's are too high pitched and JL's are too bassy. I've got all Pioneer speakers in my MINI currently as they have the best tonal qualities which ring true to my ears.

R

 

The stock radio puts out 8.5VRMS or 12 VPeak, or about 20 watts continuous or 40 watts peak in to the stock 3.5 ohm speaker. The amplifier is capable of driving 2 ohm loads, for short durations (its heatsink limits its long term power output) i.e. occasional cranking or normal levels of dynamic music. Into a 2 ohm load it will output 36 watts continuous, but could go into "protect" if cranked for too long at unreasonable levels. For my musical tastes, and since I don't DJ block parties with my car, I would feel comfortable driving 2 ohm loads. Your choice will depend on your taste and objectives.

The stock speakers are not really that bad. They're as efficient as most $150-300 per pair seperates and have reasonably flat response, with good high frequency extension. A lightwight cone is actually a benefit. You probably bought a MINI instead of a "big truck" for similar reasons. The stock speaker's biggest weakness is excursion, or xmax, which is it's ability to play loud low bass without distortion. With the same power, an equally efficient speaker with more excursion will deliver lower and louder bass, cleanly. Many aftermarket speakers are less efficient, thus REQUIRING more power to play as low and loud as a more efficient speaker, or even the stock speaker. Since you'd be applying more power to get the same output, the speaker would suffer from power compression (Ohm's law, again), a form of distortion. Your best bet is to choose a speaker that is at least equally efficient, then if you're not satisfied, adding amplification gets you even louder (instead of just back to where you started in terms of SPL).

If you're not careful in speaker selection then you may be trading one important system aspect, like clean SPL (how loud before obvious, objectionable distortion), for slightly better tonality (cleaner highs, lower or tighter lows, less colored vocals), when it's entirely possible to improve both for the same money.

The stock front door speaker (5.25&quot plays 90 dB at 1 meter, with 2 VRMS input. This is its sensitivity. It's resistance is 3.5 ohms. Most speaker manufacturers provide this. It's resonance frequency (Fs) is 75 Hz. It's frequency response can be described as 75-10kHz. There is a dip in the response at 1 kHz, and a narrow spike at 5 kHz. Generally, the response is downward tilting with increasing frequency. It's xmax is 2.5 mm.

A suitable upgrade (minimum requirements) woud have simple spec's like:
Sensitivity: 90-91 dB
Fs: 60-80 Hz
xmax: 3-4 mm

I would recommend that the woofer have frequency response extending to at least 5kHz, and a generally upward tilting response. I highly recommend a 6.5" speaker. The larger cone helps with efficiency, and bass output (more surface area=more volume displaced).

By a limited budget, do you mean $300-800, or more like $1000-2000? Will you be paying someone else to install, or doing the work yourself?

 

Thank you for this basic info on the stock system. It is hard to compare when we don't know the relative specs of the stock radio or speakers. Most audio evaluations we can do as owners is highly subjective since we lack the equiptment to do the testing. then when we choose replacements we do not know if we are choosing to improve on the stock system or merely going by what the "pro-audio shop" is recommending or maybe the hype from the audio company.

At least this gets us started at looking to see what we can do. Choosing replacement speakers carefully is a wise investment. Getting them to fit in the front doors may require a spacer or adapter and a little installer savy.

In my neck of the woods, pro audio shops will charge about $600 to $900 for a 4 speaker (front components {tweeter and woofer with cross over}-rear two way) set up fully installed with up to three year warranty.
And another $600 to $800 for a basic 35 to 50 Watt x 4 channel amplifier with converters and wires installed with 1 to 3 year warranty. This is quite an investment so take you time. If you do the install yourself you can save about $100 for the front speakers, $60 for the rears, up to $200 for the 4 channel Amp. Pretty hard and or pricey to hide the amp so you can bolt them on the back of one of the rear folding seats or build a custom box for it in the boot.

So let Tacotim know what price budget you are looking at so we can proceed.