Good for you!

As for me, MTH has done a great job and I plan to stick with it. Can't load JCW on a stock car (for now).

 

And thus my complaints. I bought based on what was advertised. I do not see those results, had poor service from MTH and MTH-USA. I appreciate that Don helped me get my updates from MTH even though I did not purchase anything from him. My complaints aren't with Don it is with MTH in general.

Those same specs listed above were listed on MTH-USA's site and Precision MINI's (disclaimer, Don's site, to the best of my knowledge didnt exist at the time I purchased my MTH software, if it did I was unaware of it, so did not affect my decision at the time).

The reason I post things like I do is not to upset vendors, it is so that people will realize that this product is not everything to everyone. After purchasing the product I found it seems more applicable to people doing a few mods, not a lot.
I realize that this only cost $400, every keeps saying oh well its cheap what are you asking for. Well, if you advertise such things, I buy and expect to see those results. I then post that my results differ and then I get flamed for attacking a vendor.

Bottome line, MTH is good for some people, not for all. Had I know that the power increase being specified in the advertisements were made "on a cold day with no humidity at sea level with a $100K fan setup", I would have saved another $400 and bought another solution.

 

I honestly don't know how to respond to this. Your post is very well stated and honest; I totally respect that. I hope you can find what you are looking for in the tuning department. I have heard that there are some others out there starting to try new things with tuning and they may be a better solution for you. Good luck with that.

 

SayGoodbye
I've got the JCW flash...$125...

i like to knew what you think about the JCW flash?

i do have a freind that can do it for me but just want to knew is it worth $$$.
i am running MTH original files from when they first cam out it is ok but i have DYNOed the car and you realy need to address the AIR / FULE RATIO to be more LEAN from 3500 RPM and up.
how does JCW looks on the dyno is it running RICH also?

 

Another option (for some based on mods) is GIAC. I did a post of my recent GIAC experience "ecu giac upgrade" in the performance section.

 

Thanks!

 

I have no dyno info unfortunately. I really want to get my car dynoed though. After I mooded the plugs, exhaust and ecu...all about the same time...I noticed that on the local track a 2000 Mustang GT could not pull on me between 2nd and 4th. The 350z didn't make up much ground either... I also run a 94-95 octane mix, mainly to eliminate pinging. Among other mods, I have removed a few unecessary things like the backseat. If I can be assured that I will get approximatley a 32-37 bhp increase, I will do a dyno with my jcw before and MTH after.

 

If you do this, be sure to give the file time to settle in. Remember that many of the ECU settings are reset with a flash, so some quality driving time will be needed between Dynos to get good acurate results. I would really be interested in the results that you do get. FYI, I noticed that my above post might have come across sarcastic and that is not what I meant. I meant that it is good that you are running some sort of file to enhance the performance of what you have. I know of a guy that owns a Corvette and he has modded the heck out of the engine but refuses to flash the ECU. He constantly has engine troubles because of it.

 

I'll keep you informed. I'm not exactly expecting to get the MTH anytime soon though....

"So with my mods pushing 185-190 bhp I can expect 215-220 bhp with your mth tuner file? I am assuming ( and call me an a$$ if I'm wrong...don't worry I'm ready for it...) that your tuner file will provide a 32-37 bhp increase...based off your 200 hp claim from what I am assuming is a stock MCS. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I would love to gain 30+ hp from a tuning solution. Look me in the internet eye and tell me straight up that I will gain 30+ hp from the mth file and I will buy it NOW... that is what you are advertising."

 

Your method of asking is inappropriate and disrespectful and does not actually warrant a response. However, I will answer anyway for those who might like to know. In Phoenix most likely “no” because of poor quality fuel, altitude, and temperature differences not in your favor when compared to DIN specs.

 

I feel that your method of advertising is inappropriate and disrespectful and does not warrant a purchase ...to address the fuel situation, I mix 100 octane fuel to achieve a higher octane rating (yes, expensive :impatient). To address the temperature issue, it's a wonderful 60 degrees farenheit right now...should be about 68 (20 degrees celcius)by 9 or 10 o'clock. The altitude is not in my favor...961 feet at Phoenix International Raceway. Even at that altitude I should not lose much horsepower at all. The atmospheric pressure is at about 30 inches Hg (101.59 kPa), the temp 68 (20 celcius) and the fuel at about 94 octane. Take all that into consideration and horsepower loss should be less than 1%.

Other than that advertisment on your website, I have absolutley no problem with you. I think you honeslty care about this community (your help with the whole MTH-USA mess) and the products you put out (Stahl exhaust system). Maybe this is all a misunderstanding and the advertised 200 hp is really meant to be 149.14 kilowatts at the wheel for a base MCS?

 

Why beat Don up on this? He gets his numbers from MTH here in Germany. Also, there is still that little word "approximetly" in there and have you taken into consideration the DIN specs that the claims are based on? I remember Volker arguing this as well.

 

The MTH specs are DIN; you are making an incorrect comparision.

 

DIN: German standard. Measure at 101.3kPa and 20°C. Rated in hp (ps). 1kW = 1.360hp ?

 

I am approximately 6'7" tall. Does that make me approximately 7'4" tall in Germany?

 

Seriously guys, I think the MTH solution is great for the MINI DIY community. I guess I just like debating... I'll do what is right for my car and Don will do what is right for his business.

 

Actually you are about 2 meters... :p

DIN standards do make a big difference.

Ask a Brit how large a gallon is compared to ours.

 

I've taken a few minutes and read most of this thread and as many times it has become more of a pissing contest. Bottom line, service was nonexistent with MTH-USA and promises were not kept, but the product (MTH tuner file) "is" a good tune. I have it, I see and feel how my car runs, and I have a scangauge II which gives some numbers to compare. Don (Precision-Mini) is helpful and has met or exceeded my expectations as has the Tuner file.

 

 

I had MTH on my MCS for a while, and it did smooth things out and bring the rev limiter higher. But after failed attempts to get MTH-USA to update my file after some mods, and talking to don, and while he did try to help get me a update, I got nothing back. I was already planning on installing the JCW Injectors, but instead of getting a update for MTH, I had them reflash with the JCW programming which came with installing the injectors. And after having the JCW programming for a few weeks, I can 100% say that I can not tell any difference between the two. Yes my mods equal and exceed a JCW (except for the head)

For some people MTH is a great option. It does make some differences. As for the HP claim, it's one thing for one or two people not to see the numbers, but when every single car in the area that has MTH and various mods or just the Tuner file, and nobody sees the numbers that you think your getting by purchasing this, is extreamly disappointing.

Nobody is trying to bash anybody here, All were doing is showing what we've experienced, and give people more options to get the most out of their dollar. There have been more advances and more people getting into the ECU market. I would hope that if a product is making false claims or claims that are next to impossible to duplicate, the MINI community would expose it and let people who might want to purchase this product know that nobody's seen these numbers and give alternatives like the JCW programming or others.

 

i have a jcw kit & software duh, i was thinking about getting the mth software with all increase hp gains.

many have told me it's not worth it.

sorry daflake

 

Why sorry, it is your car.

Anyway, if you already have JCW then you probably won't see any increase in HP. The HP aspect of all of this is a marketing scheme guys. The object of tuning is not to increase hp, but rather to balance the car out with the physical mods that you have. JCW does this for you already and loading MTH will probably not do much for you other than some small tweaks. Bottom line is that the ECU is a computer and unless you tell that computer what you have installed on the motor, it will have a hard time taking advantage of it.

Small story....

Guy buys Corvette and proceeds to mod vet with new header, cam, exhaust and all teh goodies but leaves the ECU untouched. Vet runs like crap because timing is off and car just can't settle in. Guy finally lets someone that knows what they are doing talk him into an ECU tune. Car runs great.... His car was hindered by the mods that he put on to the point that a stock car could have beat him in the quater mile (track of course). However, once the ECU was tuned the car finally reached the HP that it should have had with the given mods.

MTH or JCW are great options for the street driver. However, as Don has pointed out a number of times, if you are a serious track guy/gal, you will have to get a proper tuning and it will cost you much more than then standard MTH or JCW file.

 

I installed the MTH standard file on my Cooper Cabrio about three weeks ago and the difference was amazing. My MINI felt like a different car. My goal was to smooth things out through the gears and it did that nicely. The car had more power in every gear. Did I measure it on a dyno? No, and I never planned too. What matters to me is how the MINI feels when I drive it, not some needle on a gauge or data on a bar chart.

This week I had the JCW Sound Kit installed and it came with the JCW ECU remap. The exhaust is awesome but the JCW remap really made acceleration flat again in some spots. I'm guessing it wiped out my MTH remap. So now I need to find out if I can reapply the original MTH remap or if I need a new one. I sent a note to Don about this.

Like I said, I'm not putting my car on a dyno so I don't know if the JCW flash produces more hp than the MTH one. But I know that my Cooper felt like a little rocket right after I did that MTH flash and now it does not.

On a side note...some of the dialog here has gotten to a point that is unpleasant and unlike the normal spirit of the MINI community. MTH the parent company had some past troubles that left a lot of people with a bad taste in their mouth. Don should not have to pay for other people's mistakes. He has time and time again been under attack in multiple threads and has always calmly stuck to the facts. Everyone else should do the same and give Don a break.

If you don't think MTH will work for you then don't buy it. It's really that simple.

 

MINI Bee,

Just wanted to let you know that Don is at the track this weekend, so it may be a day or two before you get a response.

 

HMMm...

what can i say that hasn't been said already
after reading pretty much every topic on this section of the forum i'm still confused somewhat.

To put it in simple terms, this is what i'm understanding:

MTH costs $400 and basically smoothes out whatever tune you have based on your modification list.
It does not give you much/if any HP increase at all, but it does take the flat spots and hesitations out of your current tune.
It gives you some power if you're stock, if you have most or all of the bolt ons, it gives none, just makes everything work smoothly together.

The JCW re-flash is based on the JCW package which includes more boost/better breathing intake/better flowing exhaust.
With an inside connection it costs roughly $125

From what i read, people who are re-flashing with the JCW tune, are feeling their similarily modified S's to be smoother with less/or no flat spots with the JCW tune, without any increase in HP either.

To add to my confusion, there's a third tuning gizmo thrown in the mix, The Bluefin...but i haven't read much at all about it so i'm thinking it doesn't work as advertized or it's simply un-popular with the american crowd.

So, JCW re-flash for $125 vs Don's MTH tuner tune for $400
Neither give considerable HP gains since I haven't seen ONE dyno graph posted by anyone before/after either tune, i suppose the REAL question would be:

Which tune gives the smoothest feel and if MTH gives a smoother/more precise tune, is it worth the extra $275 (or more, considering shipping back and forth plus the cable cost)

I am seriously trying to find out which direction to go, my modifications are listed below, they won't be changed, they won't be added on, they will remain the way they are until the car is gone, that said, which tune is right for me?

2006 S
-alta 15% pulley
-alta airbox
-alta 2.5" cat back
-OBX header with stock cat
-alta IC diverter
-colder plugs (22's) and 8mm wires

I live in south FL, sea level avg. temps 75-85 degrees F.

Another question would be, if the battery is changed, if the car goes to the dealer for anything that requires them plugging it into their computer for diagnostic checks, WILL THE MTH TUNE/JCW TUNE BE LOST OR HAVE TO BE RE-INSTALLED?
In other words, what if anything can erase the re-flashed tune once done?