Collapsing air tubes, Ford engineering, disinformation, GT40, vacuum, CAI, HAI, small valves, old race car driver, MTH better than Mini ??? Speed Channel, air seals………

What are you trying to say?

Can someone from Alta,WMS, and/or m7 please pitch in and provide some data in support of our CAI.

I need to get to the office but,.... 1) the stock tube has ridges so it can be made from cheaper material...... 2) there is big dif between trying to improve on factory "race ready" engineering and the "for the masses" quality that our Minis are shipped with......more later.....

You make a good point that you ( we) would think the cone filter would collapse somewhat if the pressure were enough to collapse the tube to the TB.... but i would *guess* ( NOT being a Rocket Scientist only a PC Geek ) that the change in shape of the tube would be gradual and not a sudden change... someone quoted under hood video...

All the information is available for those willing to leave this site and search.

"Can someone from Alta,WMS, and/or m7 please pitch in and provide some data in support of our CAI.[IMG]images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]"
I'm have no dog in this fight like a vendor does. If these products worked don't you think you would see them on, for instance, a Porsche GT3?

That car is targeted at a very different audience than the Mini is, and has the price to justify some more performance optimization. And FWIW, European Car was doing some mods to a Porsche, and an aftermarket airbox got them some HP....

Matt

I have no dog in this fight either, and personally don't care whether or not a CAI makes HP or not.

Having said that, and after perusing your site and the related links, I have come to the following conclusions:

(1) The JCW airbox is a waste of money.

(2) The JCW injectors are a waste of money.

(3) The 7hp claim JCW makes between the two upgrades is hooey.

(4) All of the dyno work done over the years on this site by both vendors, independent owners, etc. is bunk.

(5) The mth upgrade will net me 27hp on my 03 MCS (providing I used 93 octane gas).

(6) BBR is marketing a 275 hp MCS using the following upgrades:

• BBR Big valve, gas flowed and ported Cylinder head fitted with BBR camshaft
• BBR Solid tappet and uprated valve spring assembly
• BBR modified high mass air flow supercharger assembly (we ditch the original supercharger)
• BBR modified high flow fuel system and injectors
• BBR auxiliary high flow water pump assy. and redesigned coolant system
• BBR fixed tension belt drive assembly
• BBR high flow twin intercooler assembly
• BBR S/S exhaust system
• BBR Ram Induction Bonnet Air Inlet Venturi kit
• and of course BBR custom mapped software

and these claims are NOT hooey.

Meh, show me the dynos disproving the CAI claims and show me the dynos supporting your claims. Minus that, it's the same old BS being thrown back and forth.............every week someone finds a new reason to re-start the debate on this issue......yawn.

I think it was K-Huevo who has been extolling the virtues of the stock box for awhile now. I have no reason to doubt his logic.

btw: I do not think that we should be confusing Don's opinions with mth's..........I haven't seen where he claims to be speaking on behalf of them.

I am not saying what you are purporting is wrong but your skills of arguement need some work.....this logic is faulty.....based on questionable tenets.....oh, and if you don't believe me start doing some searches (sound familiar)......I don't have time to defend my assertions...I'll just breeze in poop and fly out (seagull management) Support your claims with info posted to this site not links......how about some editing of material for your audience..... that is if you want a broad base of "listeners"

Tell Porche to make a production vehicle for under $30000, and I bet there will be better options for intakes than whatever they include as stock.

I wouldn't mind seeing one of an Alta or other reputable Mini CAI vendor's tube collapsing. And by the way, was that Sports Car Revolution vehicle using MTH when their tube collapsed? If not, they're probably missing out on HP, no?

precisely, what is the list on a base MCS?

Oo, good point.

Correction, tell Porche to make their production vehicle less than $21k.

bingo......and you are exactly right

Since we're comparing mods for consumer cars to Porche's and GT40's, I wonder how many of them have MTH.

we just don't pay any attention to it. We have Minis....

Matt

look at the MTH website they have gone upmarket......I was on it a few weeks ago and was very impressed

Remember, the engineering that went into our cars was not only mechanical engineering, but also financial engineering as well as marketing. Things have to be made cheaper, quicker, and more efficient than others. Sometimes that leads to a comprimise. For instance, things are designed with knowing the fact they need to be sold in different countries. Look at the exhaust! It was made to perform while maintaining a certain db level. However, we all know that by modifying that design, more power can be loosed from our engines.


Isn't that is what is being done with the MTH software changes? Out-thinking the engineers by trying to redesign the ECU software?

good point....do you know how many parts are made of plastic including my gas pedal? take a magnet to that car sometime...it is an eyeopener.....it's called "value engineering" something race cars do at a very different level....

Porsche, Ferrrari and the like utilize full body aero and come with large boxes stock (thats why the F430 has mirror that direct airflow to the in take boxes. Those cars come stock with greater air supply, also I suggest you veture of this site to a boxter board and do some reading on the removing the snorkel, Porsche designed to keep the car quiet for its owners, hp gains and reduction of the Yo-Yo effect. Fact is many companies including Ford (how'd they manage to get in on this one?) go to great lengths to quiet and "tune" their intakes regardless of preformance effects. Thats what hte hige lump of plastic is for on the new F-150, make the truck "sound like a Ford" extensive surveys and modifications were made to get the right sound. Thats also why MINI exausht has a resonator, gets the right sound, regardless of the restriction and increase in back pressure, thats a good deal of the reason the one-ball mod is so popular among enthusiasts. I'd like to see some support of your claims, if it you'd like to convince me that the majority of the enthusiasts here simply bought bunch of "BS" as MTH put it.

As this thread began, MTH's official opinion of intakes is that they do not work – use a K&N flat panel.
The purpose of remapping is for performance increase. There is usually room left by the factory to do this – they tune for endurance rather than performance.
Like I said before, I have no dog in this fight. I don’t sell anything other than MTH software. I’m semi-retired and spend my time mostly track prepping cars – Mini, BMW, Porsche – and doing consulting to race teams through their contracts with my company and Dartfish.
I’ll leave it at that.

do we need 'em or not
_
....sum g00d points in here
keep it up yall.....try not to **** each other off tho!!
i've run a slew of so called CAI's both in my VW's and on my MINI they do very little(as a first mod) and fer tha money u spend on sum of them i dont see tha point.
at least w/M7's unit u get a little more.......
i do feel its a good idea fer people/tuners to venture out and see wats goin' on (as far as tunin' goes) in tha rest of tha world. NAM is not tha end all, peeps!!
anymore input??

Can we all please just stop right here? I never intended this to be a war.

I'm good

Don't use an intake, they do not work. Use this K&N intake mod.

if the factory left room for improvement in the ECU - enough for MTH to improve upon anyway, why isn't it possible for them to have left room for improvement in the intake area as well? i have a K&N flat panel right now but i'm thinking of going for a new system (m7, HDI, or Helix) soon, would be my 3rd kit (K&N, MaxVelocity, and HAI). i appreciate all the opinions and see good points on both sides, which is why i've been so indecisive in this arena.