Here is one thing to think about. 71K sounds horrible on a car a year old, put 3 or 4 more years on it with little or no miles and it won't sound like as high a mileage anymore for someone wanting this model year. Can you pay it off and sit on it for a few years and then sell it? 71K on a five year old vehicle won't seem like very much, then, and I'll bet you'll easily get more of your money out of it.

 

no, but it's a beginning!

I understand that aftermarket mods mean nothing, but this is a factory item that essentially makes this a car different model. I know nothing I feel will change anything, but it just burns my butt. An M3 is worth more than every other garden variety 3 Series even with 70K miles. I don't get the logic. Tuff for me

 

It's a lot like a motorcycle, drive it off the lot and it's worth half price, put the mileage over 10K and you have cut the resale in half again. I made out great on an insurance settlement on my 2006 MCS, but I held the line on the price when I bought it, about 22K. I see this on this board every day, all the add-ons KILL the folks on trade and resale, when the base models really do hold their value better than any other out there. A luxury sedan is expected to have high mileage and keep on "ticking", a sprint car isn't the same. Find a way to pay for it and keep it and you'll probably make out in the end, or bite the bullet and take the best offer. There are only two ways to go.

 

Sorry for your situation, that is a lot of miles

Try to look at the bright side, you never had to pay increased insurance for having a higher performance version as you would if it was a different model. Trust me, the insurance on the M3 was rather higher then the normal 3er.

Overall I've found that people just don't want high mileage performance cars, the idea of paying for maint/work on a BMW past warranty, and that a sporty car has been thrashed, is a (justified) concern for people, I hesitate to buy used for those reasons as well.

Best of luck - try Carmax perhaps?

 

it's not on edmunds yet, but kbb now has the jcw kit as an option to include when calculating the used values of an '06 model. no idea if it would actually sell at the prices listed, but running my '06 (9k miles at the present) through their value estimator gives a "retail sale" price of slightly more than i paid for it. ymmv, but hopefully the factory jcws will retain at least some of the additional cost at resale. for the dealer kits on earlier models, however, i think the opinions in this thread are right on, it's money down the drain at trade-in/resale time.

and of course, as mentioned, your mileage really screws you.

 

I know the mileage hurts, no problem. The pain is the value is calculated without the JCW kit and I don't understand why it has no value. I expected the car to be worth about 15K, not 10K.

If I can get 13,500 for a trade the deal is done today. If not, I'm looking elsewhere.

 

Hmm, I wonder how many Bel Air's Chevy sold in '57, or how many model T's Ford produced... :impatient

 

But ... 57 Chevys are a classic. Find a totally OEM one, very low mileage, and your golden! V8, convert is worth about $70K+

However, that is a good question ... answer ... 47K per Wiki!

 

Also keep in mind that number produced relative to population size. In 50 years the population has and will continue to grow exponentially....what is a large production number today (i.e. 200,000 like the MINI) will seem small in 50 years.

Then you have to look at what set a trend for an era. Or what was really distinctive for its time period. and those cars will do well in collector circles.....I mean the corvair was a death trap (according to ralph nader) and yet those are quite collectible and there are groups of people who just love them!

I think this era of automotive design is the retro era. Chrysler started it with the prowler and pt, VW with the bug, the mustang, and maybe the charger.....The latter being classic designs refreshed ad modernized......Arguably the MINI is one of the finest examples of this era and has been produced in some of the smallest numbers, relative to other autos.

And lastly, The "I wish I would have kept the car crowd" ......Seems every muscle car fan had one when they were younger and remembers how much fun they were.....Cars that are actually fun to drive make an impression and it sticks with them, so that later in life when they can acually afford a toy they go back to what they remember.....I will bet that will be no diffrent for sport compacts

 

I was in my dealership last weekend and had him run some numbers to see if I could swing a GP (no chance, but why not see?). He said my 05 mcs with minimal options (aero, anth. hliner, xenon) with 42,000mi and non-runflats (apparently they'd have to replace) would wholesale for 13,000$. He said they'd sell it for like 16-17$.

I said, "and this is the dealership who has M3s with 60K on them for $45K????????? Thank you very much, I'm leaving now."

Good luck meb.

mb

 

Did someone call Art Vandalay? Sorry had to.

mb

 

Actually, I think the opposite is true. If you take a look at the ppl buying muscle cars at Barret-Jackson, they are mostly older Baby Boomers who when then were 18 ... no way could they afford a Hemi or 428 Cobra Jet or whatever. Those cars were double the cost of a six cylinder Mustang and they were kids.

Now, they may be very successful businessmen and can afford to buy the cars they could only "dream" about as a kid. This is why the shift has been from exotics as collectible ... the Ferraris coveted by the WWII generation to the Muscle Cars coveted by the Baby Boomers.

What we don't know is what will be coveted by Gen -X types when they can afford $100K for a collectors car. Most likely, Muscle cars will take a dive just like many Ferraris.

The "true" collector cars, the ones that NEVER go down, were made in very small numbers and are desired by everyone (e.g., Gullwing Benz, Ferrari Testa Rosas, ... and who knows ... maybe those Hemi Cuda Covertables with only two made).

MINIs? I really would not hold my breath. We may all wish that to be true but I doubt it will happen. In fact, very few "current" cars in the last 10 years may be collectable simply because of the numbers or lack of interest by the general public.

Possible cars that "might" be collectable in 25 years? Just a guess. Remember, they got to be totally OEM

Any Corvette Z car.
Any Porsche GT2 or GT3
Maybe the first Viper convertables

I just dont know any others at the moment.

 

We received an honest 13K offer as a trade-in today. The guy stated that I should have no problems selling it privately for 16K or a bit higher.

I spoke with him about the Kelly Bluebook and he responded; first, a new Mini is arriving soon which will de-value all models, second, big packages like the JCW count less as time goes on...they lose value faster than the car does...supply and demand - demand for the Mini is not what it use to be, there is a lot of product in the market place now. "The Kelly Bluebook does not take these things into consideration."

The 13K offered comes right off the bottom line and saves about $1,000.00 in taxes so it's like selling the car for 14K. Do I want to chase folks down and be part of test drives for another two grand??? I'll see what I can get if I leave the Megans,(fronts are brand new) the 4 rear Ireland control links, and the Webb rear swaybar attached...and the P-flex front control arm bushings.

All else is really easy to remove - most already spoken for.

 

Ok, I am going from memory here, as I cannot find the article. But it was fairly recent, within the past month. It had to deal with specialty insurance for collectible cars that are 25 years, or older. One of the cars on the list from the insurance company was a Pontiac Fiero. Go figure.

Of course I could me misquoting the whole thing, in which case I apologize and please disregard.

 

And that is why I said if you get offered $15K to take it.

People just don't want to hear that MINI values are dropping rapidly, especially with the new car coming out. As you learned about KBB, it means nothing. I was specifically told by two independent appraisers that the ONLY thing that matters is the wholesale sales of similar cars in the immediate past. That is the ONLY thing that matters ... not some guideline on the Internet.

Hear no evil, See no evil ...

Best of luck and sorry you had to experience the reality of selling a MINI these days. It ain't pretty.

 

After putting 20k miles on my last MINI, I sold it for $2k more than I paid for it. Those days appear to be long gone.

 

Check this out http://www.hagerty.com/Auto/vehicle_70s.aspx

Hagerty is a premier collectors car insurance place and they are talking about AMC PACERS!!!!

You see ... they don't care what they ensure ... its a business. You pay the money and they take it. Having collectors insurance does not mean the car is a true collectable.

Take a look at the requirements ....

• always stored in a locked garage
• no major violation. Only two minor ones
• can only be driven to organized functions

What kind of fun is that???

 

damn too bad i dont have the money right now. I would have bought it ASAP. Mileage is nothing but a number. If i run into some money within the next few days ill let you know =)

 

So what do you think the MC40 will be worth later since only 1000 were made? It's funny, when I bought my MC40 the other day at a Ford dealership, they had a 'vert Shelby Cobra GT500 in the showroom. 30K mark up! They tell me it's one of 9000 made! I buy my MC40 (they didnt know anything about it!!!) and I tell them, "Thanks for the Mini! It's more rare then the GT500 your selling! " They said 'no way' and I said, "WAY!" Told them it was 1 of 1000, not 9000. The look was priceless ! Said, "See ya later, Stu Pidassho!"

 

Your not going to like this answer but since I just SOLD mine I can tell you EXACTLY what the MC40 "option" is worth....

NOTHING.

Go over to mini2 and read all the old post bashing the MC40 to see why. If you actually go read their bashing, they are much harsher on the car than I am going to be but fundamentally, there is NOTHING different on it than any MCS except one thing ... the red leather seats. Everthing else are just options could could click of the option sheet.

It was a marketing gimic ... hype over an anniversery date. They did NOT sell, they sat on the lot for a year. I would bet there are still MC40s at dealers used as loaner cars.

I bought mine much later after delivery ... got a discount, stuff thrown in, could drive right of the lot and knew full well what I was buying ... a MCS with a bunch of bling ... BUT ... I could drive it off the lot and not wait six months for delivery.

I am not trying to be "harsh" or "rude" or hurt anyone's feelings but when the day comes you take your MC40 into to resell it ... I was told this ....

Cars like these are MUCH harder to resell. The masses don't want them ... all gimmick, no substance. Anniversary this, anniversary that ... means nothing. They are bling. Its not worth anything beyond the normal value of the car.

You can choose not to believe it if you want but just take a look at the recent threads of people trying to sell their cars for outrageous dollars and finding no buyer and getting "trade-in" shock when trading in.

As to the Shelby GTs. Although they will sell 10K of them, they got 100K buyers lined up to buy them. How many Mustang lovers are out there ... probably millions.

How many MC40 lovers are out there?

Just food for thought and I did not mean to dash your inspirations of huge dollars a Barret-Jackson but a little bit of reality goes a long way in making life a bit more stress free when you get disappointed later in life.

BTW ... when the dealer knew nothing about the MC40, that ought to tell you something about the popularity of the car in the automotive world. ... Nobody's heard of it ... hmm.

 

$13K? You gotta be kidding me. Man, if you'd part with it to me for that, I would be half tempted to do something drastic and fly into CT and bring you the cash and use it as a daily driver rather than my SCCA STX/DSP JCW Mini.(well, thats if you would be nice and sell it to me at the trade-in price) Thats crazy, I just paid $30+K for my 06 JCW so I feel your pain.

If I did buy yours at $13K, I'd promise to give it a happy 2nd home. lol I'd take it to the track on a regular basis too just to knock the cob-webs off and I even have a few different pairs of shoes(wheels) it could try on just for good measure. :-)

I assume its all in nice condition?

 

Chow, you keep talking short term and big $$ really rare, truely collectibles those go up in value.......But that is not really a very acurate comparison. I have followed your posts egnough to know where you are comming from. but I believe diffrently

Just take a look at classic MINI's .....a basic good daily drive condition car cannot be had for less than 5k on ebay.....the S commands a premium over the basics and the 1300cc more than the 998's .....and there were millions of those cars made

Or take any run of the older car that was popular and exciting and those will sell today for more than the purchase price.....another example....I have wanted to get a 68-72 chevy pick-up for hauling stuff, those years are the best looking older trucks....You cant find one in good shape for less than 3-4k.......We arent talking about investments here, they dont keep pace with inflation.......BUT.......in 25+ years I bet your MINI is worth more than purchase price, the JCW's cost more and will be worth slightly wore and the MC40's will be rare and valued......and again remember the exponential population growth curve again......200k units sounds like alot now but 47k units for that 57 chevy was alot back then and now it seems small.....In 2036 when toyota sells 12 million camry's a year world wide ....todays production #'s will seem tiny

 

I understand where you coming from. Here is the rebuttal.

Lets forget the really rare cars. The ones ordered from detroit where only say 12 people ordered some combinations of colors or engines.

Lets talk just like you said ... common cars maintaining value. After all, how realistic is to find a cherry 63 Vette with 500 miles on it?

As to numbers ... first, I have read specifically that cars like the Boxster, will NEVER be collectible because simply too many have been made. How many are made/year? About 8K worldwide (never mind how many in the US). Far Far less than MINIs sold worldwide they just past 1,000,000. after a 9 year run, thats maybe 72K Boxster vice 1,000,000 MINIs. I just don't see it happening.

But lets look at other cars made in huge numbers. Believe it or not, all cars sold on Barrett-Jackson do not sell for six figures. The mininum bid, I believe, is 25 or 35K, forget which one. The auction lasts one week. Usually, what you might see on speed channel, are the prime hours where the big bucks are. However, the first few days are when the more realistically prices cars are. Last January Speed Channel ran those auction hours at odd times which I taped. Most of it was pretty boring stuff. Oddballs, hot rods, older cars you never heard of, etc.

However, two come to my mind. The first was a cherry 65 Mustang Convertable. I think a 289. Some lady bought it at a Florida auction a year ago for like $50 (my numbers are approximate ... you can easily (well actually painfully) look them up the Barret-Jackson archives online. She bought it fully as in investment but to drive on Sundays or whatever. It should be noted that the truly expensive cars are simply not driven anywhere except to shows. They are like expensive gold coins, locked up in garages.

They followed her around a bit and her car was sold on the first day for near mininum. She took at least a $10K hit.

I owned at 65 mustang (not a 289). I can guarantee you a new convertable 289 was probably about $2100 or so. Obviously the person on sold it to her for $50K made a killing if he was the original owner. She tried to buy to invest. Disappointed. But $35K for a 65 Mustang is still like a 10x profit. I believe this is maybe what your talking about????

BUT ... the thing is that a 65 mustang changed the automotive world. ... literally. It create the Pony Cars and lead the Muscle Car era. It was one of the most important cars every sold, despite selling probably over 100K cars in one year. I am not going to be sold that any MINI is such a hallmark car. Sorry, despite the fact its fun to drive, great value for the MINI, it set no retro stage (maybe the bug or PT cruiser did). Its just another car among many. I know thats hard to hear but its just not a 65 Stang. There are probably more than 1 million Mustang lovers out there that would drool at the thought of having an original one.

Second car. 85 or 86 Porsche 930 Turbo. Two cars on the block. I owned at 86 911 Carrera at the time (don't ask ... young and stupid ... had to sell). I went to PCA autox. I drooled over the 930 Turbo. The first of the classic 911 Turbos. Big rear wing, wide-*** butt.

First car went up and sold at about $35K. Disappointment. Car had an aftermarket exhaust. Big no no. Clearly driven, 30K + miles. Engine compartment not detailed. Owner got slightly less (but not bad) for the price bought. It basically sold as a used car.

Second 930 went up. Completely OEM, same miles or so, driven. Detailed nicely including engine. sold for 15K more. More than sticker. Why? Completely OEM parts ... nothing aftermarket and the owner had the brains enuff to clean the car. BTW, I have no idea how many 930s were ever sold but I would bet less than 5K/year.

So will MINIs sell for $22K in 2020? IMO, nope. There simply is nothing "special" about them. I brought up the Mustang and 930 because there "was" something special about those two cars. 65 Mustang changed the automotive world. Most all other "supercars" were created chasing the original 911 Turbos. What has MINI changed?

Its just my opinion. If I were to "invest" in a MINI, I'd do what one guy from Texas did with the last of the 12 cylinder XKEs. Supposedly he bought a dozen (oil money I guess). Stashed them away not driven. One day to bring them out cherry, one at a time at auction. I'd do the same with GPs. Grab a dozen at whatever prices. Garage them in storage, and hope I lived that long. Maybe ... they would still be worth $32K. No wait ... with inflation thats a really BAD investment

A big point is that there is a huge difference between cars having a huge fan base, regardless of how many sold, and a MINI with a STRONG enthusiats base but weak overall numbers in the masses.

Its OK to agree to disagree ... they are just opinions.

 

To add to chow's comments is another forgotten aspect of modern cars vs. older "classics."

Survival rate.

Simply put, current cars are built much, MUCH better than cars of the 60's thru 80's. Mainly in the area of rust resistance. Back in a the 60's and 70's it was not uncommon for a car in the northern states to start showing rust within a few years. Now a car can easily go 5 years or more and not show any signes of rust - and this is with minimal to no care. If properly cared for, a modern car body may very well last indefinitely.

Additionally, back in the 60's and 70's, few cared about the "collectability" of cars. Shelby Mustangs and Hemi Cudas were driven hard and put away wet. Many were butchered into drag racers and wrapped around trees. Add to that the fact that something like the Hemi (literally a slightly detuned racing engine) was difficult engine to live with as a daily driver - rough idling cam... solid lifters... dual 4V carbs... meant higher than average maintainence... even compared to the cars of the day - which were much more "needy" than today's cars. And you have a car that makes a Lotus Elise look down-right practical with regards to day-to-day living... Thus few were sold. Some dealers even yanked the original Hemi and installed the more sellable 440 in order to move the car. Similar to how many Superbirds and Daytonas were "de-winged" by dealers after they sat on the lot for a year or more.

Combine all of this together and few of the hi-po Mopars survived.... and the ones that did have become quite rare and thus valuable.

 

IanF.....I can see your point about bodies and rust......but again, you have returned to the rare and collectible.....So you are talking about cars that originally sold for like 3 or 4k becoming worth like 50k or more.

Chow, you make a good example with the porsches but the mustang doesn't fit the equation. So the porsches sold for 35k and 50k......What were those retailed for in 85?

25yrs is the start of the appreciation cycle really, 35yrs is a bit more assured but even still ...what I am saying, is the a superbly maintained car will almost always sell for more than original retail price 25+ years later (unadjusted for inflation of course)

You take any car....ANY car off the lot in 1981 when avg retail price of a car then was about $7500 and keep it in great OEM condition you wont be able to get jack squat for it in 1991, by 15yrs the prices have bottomed out and by 25yrs there is nobody left who has a nice OEM car and you can sell that car today and get $7500 for a well maintained chevy or ford whatever with 200k miles.........why? It is rare by the fact that nobody takes care of a car that long

See, the catch is that it has to be kept in tip-top shape, and no matter how cars are built or how many were produced .....so few people take care of things as they age, most just begin to ignore little things and abuse the cars into the ground.

So, lets look at the year 2030 .....The population will have grown from around 300m to around 450m new car production numbers will track accordingly and expect the price of a new car to be close to $80k the number of JCW MINI's still around that have not been trashed by high school kids will be very few and I do believe that the MINI is the gold standard for the "hot hatch" import era, and will be collected as one of the finest factory offerings for this auto era. So, I do believe A OEM well cared for JCW will bring 22k in 2030, while the regular used abused ones will be going for much much less