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New R58 Family Member

  #301  
Old 12-22-2018, 09:07 PM
Tigger2011
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For where Im planning to go a pump upgrade will be a requirement. There is one aftermarket solution but it hasn't panned out for those that have tried it on the second gen so Im looking at options. What's the weight on the wheel? The 51x66 tips the scales at 39 grams vs 29 grams for the stock S compressor.
 
  #302  
Old 12-23-2018, 09:53 AM
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Oh nice! I'd definitely be interested in learning about what you find to work.

This wheel is a random one I picked up to, it's actually a Holset 30X wheel. I wanted to see what a bigger exducer like this would look like inside the turbo. The bore and that entire area is way bigger than what our wheels would be. it's significantly heavier at 78.4 grams. You can kinda see on the bottom side that there is more metal than what ours has, so fitted for a MINI turbo I'd guess it'd be way less than 78g. This is a 6+6 blade 44m x 73mm wheel.

44x73 next to the MINI 50x65mm.




Originally Posted by Tigger2011 View Post
For where Im planning to go a pump upgrade will be a requirement. There is one aftermarket solution but it hasn't panned out for those that have tried it on the second gen so Im looking at options. What's the weight on the wheel? The 51x66 tips the scales at 39 grams vs 29 grams for the stock S compressor.
 
  #303  
Old 01-23-2019, 05:06 PM
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Any update soon for Vlad?
 
  #304  
Old 01-23-2019, 06:42 PM
Tigger2011
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Not a lot of updates at the moment. Mainly been stockpiling parts in spite of the odds. In early December is one of my sons birthday, followed by my father-in-laws, followed by Christmas, followed by my wife's birthday and finally my daughters birthday. So if anybody needs a kidney let me know. Mid December through March is also our busiest time at work. First up will be a new PCV design using an APR oil catch can which has 19mm connections. I'm just not happy with the flow through the RX can. This will be pulled through an external air pump power by a step down circuit I picked up. This will provide the pump 9V for normal operation. Under boost a configurable secondary output from the boost controller will close a relay to provide the full 13.8V to the pump. Ordered the OCC from USP Motorsports in December and it's still not here. Must be arriving via pack mule.



Next up is an oil cooler with a secondary electric pump. Picked up a configurable timing circuit that will run the pump for 10 seconds before startup to pre-oil the engine and run again for 60 seconds after shutdown. The idea being to continue to provide oil to cool the turbo bearing to help prevent coking. Going with MOCAL for the adapter but still looking at coolers and comparing pressure drop.



Last but not least I got around to ordering the Darton MID sleeves for the builder engine. If anyone is looking check out Real Street Performance. They have the 800-800 sleeves for four to five hundred less than anyone else.



 
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  #305  
Old 01-24-2019, 05:12 PM
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Nice! That's awesome and super high-speed!

I can't recall, if it's been said. Are you keep the stock size pistons, or slightly increasing them?

And all that other stuff... electric pumps? Dang that's high-speed. Will you be offering that so i can be cool too? But seriously...
 
  #306  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:47 AM
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I'm keeping the bore stock at 77mm because I want to maximize the strength advantage of the Darton sleeves. Pistons will be 9.5:1 with anodized top ring land and moly skirt coat. Anodizing hardens the ring land and helps improve sealing. Rings are coming from Total Seal and is where I'm changing things up a bit.The compression ring will be a 1.2mm AP steel ring, second ring a 1.0mm napier with a high tension oil ring at the standard 2.8mm. By swapping the top two ring thickness you end up with a compression ring capable of taking much more abuse without annealing and loosing its tension. Second rings see much less heat and pressure once the rings seat and really serve more in an oil control function which the napier style does very well. Additionally, by swapping their thickness the compression height of the piston stays the same. A low tension oil ring in our application would have 6 to 8 lbs of tension while a high tension one is 10 to 12 lbs. Low tension offers less drag and parasitic loss but because of the thinness of the oil ring it is not unusual for them to lose 2 to 3 lbs of tension after several heat cycles. So I should end up close to the upper end of low tension after break-in.

If the oil cooler system works as well as planned we may assemble a kit if there is enough demand. The segment of the Mini market that would take on something like this is fairly small though so it would have to be at a low enough price point to make it feasible. I'm also looking at a remote oil filter adapter that includes a thermostat bypass. So if for example I choose a 185 or 205 degree thermostat the oil still gets filtered but will bypass the oil cooler and be routed back to the engine until it reaches temperature. With an unregulated oil cooler setup its possible to end up with an oil temperature that is too low. Especially when its cold outside.
 
  #307  
Old 01-26-2019, 10:20 AM
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Wow that's all great info. I pretty much just want to copy you... I'm really diggin' the oil cooler system and remote oil filter you're developing. I have an oil cooler, but haven't put it on for the main reason I don't want my oil to run too cool before the engine warms up.

How the heck do the WRC cars run 10.5:1? Especially with their boost levels. I assume it's because they rebuild every week or something.

How will the 9.5:1 compression affect low end to top end power?
 
  #308  
Old 01-26-2019, 02:29 PM
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Generally speaking higher compression increases thermal efficiency which means slightly better mpg in NA operation and can increase throttle response. In real world application the difference between 9.5:1 and 10.5:1 is barely noticeable. Maybe 2% when out of boost. Where it does make a big difference in is the timing you can run while in boost. More timing equals more torque. All else being equal, adding 4 degrees of timing is worth about 50 hp at 6800 rpm. Adding better fuel and more boost and the difference becomes exponential. Which leads me to the WRC question. In the US 93 octane fuel is typically 96 RON whereas WRC fuel is 102 RON. The RON rating is really more indicative of how a fuel will perform in our application.

You may want to look at Mishimoto or Improved Racing. They both make very good in-line oil cooler thermostats. Ideally, something in the 180 to 185 degree range is good.
 
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  #309  
Old 01-28-2019, 09:48 AM
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Contact me on the APR OCC and i can see what we can do, most take 2 weeks if not in stock.
 
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  #310  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:33 PM
Tigger2011
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Thanks. I'll definitely keep you in mind.
 
  #311  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:45 PM
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Ok thanks and keep up the great work on the R58 JCW I have to catch up with mine.
 
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  #312  
Old 02-01-2019, 07:39 AM
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Finished configuring and verified the timing circuit on the bench. When the trigger signal is applied the output is active for 10 seconds (timer 1) then shuts off. Then it activates again for 60 seconds (timer 2) when the trigger signal is removed (ignition off). Should work well for the oil pump as it will handle a 10 amp load directly. Also verified the step down voltage circuit works well with the air pump. Even at 9 volts it moves quite a bit of air. Still looking at fused relay boxes while I lay out the electrical design. I'd like to have some expansion capability for other options later on. Ordered the pistons from CP which ended up being a bit pricey since they're full custom. Besides the altered Total Seal ring dimensions and coatings they will have extra relief for oversized valves and take into consideration cam lift and duration as well as the vanos travel limits on the JCW. I've attached the combined cam cards for anyone looking at the Schrick 10.7mm cams. Also upgraded the wrist pins to 0.240" wall thickness and added WPC treatment to them.

Just realized I forgot to post an installation pic of the Maxton Design front splitter. It's specific to the JCW but I forgot the width is different between Pre and Post-LCI JCW front spoilers. Looks ok for now but I'll probably either end up cutting it in the middle to widen it and apply a carbon overlay or just make one from scratch.

 
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Schrick 10.7mm Cam Cards.pdf (244.6 KB, 8 views)
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  #313  
Old 02-01-2019, 02:27 PM
Tigger2011
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Yea, those boys at Real St. are quick off the mark. Got these in the mail today.



 
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  #314  
Old 02-01-2019, 03:16 PM
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WOW! Those look hardcore!

I have no idea what to look for with Cam Cards. lol
 
  #315  
Old 02-16-2019, 01:32 PM
Tigger2011
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APR oil catch can arrived. Had to determine where I wanted to mount it since I also have to mount an air pump. It's a nice unit but has one flaw. Here's a picture of the internal baffling.


As you can see the baffling consists of an internal divider and baffles that are slotted and slide into the divider. When assembled this can rattle so the baffles were tacked in place with the tig welder.


Not the best picture but you can the welds at the ends. The assembly still slides in and out should it need cleaning. Once I figured out where I wanted to mount it that had sufficient clearance to include the drain line from the bottom I fabricated a 0.125" bracket from 6061.


Once that was complete I was able to install it and start mocking up the hose routing.




Ordered some relays and metri-pack connectors so I could finish sorting the control side of the vacuum pump operation. Once those arrive I'll also sort out the mounting for the pump.
 
  #316  
Old Yesterday, 09:44 AM
Mini Chris
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Wish I could accurately describe how aspirational your post are. Sometimes I’m baffled (working on my Dad jokes) when you dive deep into engine theory. But your explanations often give me great starting point to continue researching so I can better understand the work and its implications.

Reading about the upgrades and descision making process are as enjoyable as reading the technical articles in PCA, Popular Mechanics, or Road & Track magazine but specific to Our58s🤓. Thanks for taking time to share.

Have you you read this suspension review for Fortune Auto Coilovers?
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...nd-others.html
Any thoughts on the pros-cons of the design vs something like your Ohlins or the KW V2/V3?
 
  #317  
Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM
Tigger2011
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I really like the design specs on the Fortune Autos. I believe they're up to the seventh generation design now so I can only assume they've gotten even better. Very customizable and their customer service is great I hear as well. If I lived somewhere cold where the roads get salted though and I had to drive in the winter I would have chosen a KW unit. That INOX coating they use is the bomb. Bang for buck though certainly appears the favor the Fortune-ate (Dad joke back at ya). I also like the idea behind their digressive valve tech. Valve performance was what sold me on the Ohlins. Although the feedback I got was from those that had run Ohlins and KW's.
 
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